Originally posted by h1a8
1. The Imperiex force is derived from absorbing thousands of galaxies since the dawn of time. Braniac exerted full power against Superman as stated in the comic.2. Without feats you can't prove that Mangog could bust a mountain with a single blow. I can show you every single showing of Mangog and mathematically prove that everything he did was under mountain busting strength. So if a character shows under mountain busting power in every single showing then are we supposed to assume they are far above that? When Odin fought Mangog he one shotted him easily. Mangog hit Thor repeatedly without koing him.
3. I said "or". He has to make an action before OR suffer no damage after many hits. What proof do you have that Thor can withstand a punch that could shatter a planet? Thor used a forcefield to stop Mangog, not his durability. Why did Thor choose a forcefield? Maybe Mangog could actually affect Thor?
4. Thor affecting CK with lightning has nothing to do with anything. Thor's lightning is not always operating at that level in other comics. Offense doesn't prove defense or durability. Lightning is magic and energy and not pure blunt force.
5. You still failed to prove that Thor can withstand a planet busting punch let alone a thousand galaxy one. Feats prevent no limits fallacy. Things must be quantified for characters in different companies.
1. So in this case you came to the conclusion, that Superman had the power of thousands of galaxies, and War Worlds engines were powered by this massive amount of power? Yet Superman got his power from a single star? is this what you believe? If so I may not be the only one in need of help here. I have read people toss the word hyperbole around like melons and it didn't fit until just now.
2. First of all stop making claims that you will never back up, nor do you know of all of Mangog's showings, because if you did, we wouldn't be arguing over him not being able to move mountains when far weaker characters have. Beta Ray Bill is far below Mangog's strength level, and he planet busting strength. What was the context of surrounding that particular showings of Mangog vs Odin? When he was in Asgard, he had Odin at his mercy. What showing are you referring to, and again context will help a lot.
3. What proof do you have that Superman can actually hurt him? What stops him from changing the flow of time? King Thor was able to manipulate time. where was it ever shown that OWAW Superman was immune to his level of magic? Where was it shown that this particular Superman was immune to Galactus or greater levels mind control? How is Superman supposed to stop a being that can not die? Could Superman die or was he above that as well?
4. keep up, I made the comment to show you that Superman is not the only one that can break out of tier. I never see you arguing against the full capacity rule when it's in your favor, but when it isn't you want to ignore it, and say that Thor doesn't always fight like this and that. Which is precisely why I brought it up.
5. I didn't fail at anything, it was your lack of understanding that failed to realize that RK Thor easily defeated a guy (Loki) while he was at Sky Father levels due to borrowing power from other very powerful beings. He was unable to stop RK Thor, and this is something that you can't just wriggle out of. The very idea that RK Thor was unable to die, or be affected on the physical level is what you're dealing with. This was clearly shown. You will not be able to prove that Mangog is not a threat to a Sky Father level being, because to do so, you would have to explain why Odin saw him as a threat.
6. Should I believe that since we have never seen the LT, or Thanos with the IG move at super speeds, and move War World, that they would also have a difficult time with this over-hyped version of Superman? I'm not the only one that believes this. There are actually more people that believe that RK Thor would wipe the floor with him, than there are people that believe the contrary. The ones on your side keep saying the most ridiculous things, and if everyone went with it, they would have to believe that Superman with a fraction of the power of a star, had the power of thousands of galaxies. When you look at it, it seems like a pretty dumb stance to take.
Originally posted by StoicThis is comics. We can dismiss feats because of the power source. In that case, no character will have feats since they ALL exert far more energy than their power source.
1. So in this case you came to the conclusion, that Superman had the power of thousands of galaxies, and War Worlds engines were powered by this massive amount of power? Yet Superman got his power from a single star? is this what you believe? If so I may not be the only one in need of help here. I have read people toss the word hyperbole around like melons and it didn't fit until just now.
2. First of all stop making claims that you will never back up, nor do you know of all of Mangog's showings, because if you did, we wouldn't be arguing over him not being able to move mountains when far weaker characters have. Beta Ray Bill is far below Mangog's strength level, and he planet busting strength. What was the context of surrounding that particular showings of Mangog vs Odin? When he was in Asgard, he had Odin at his mercy. What showing are you referring to, and again context will help a lot.
Either you do not read comics or you tell blatant lies. BRB never used an ounce of strength to destroy a planet. He rammed into one from far away using storm breaker. I have all comics with Thor up into volume 3 and more. I know Mangog. Name a character that one shotted a mountain with pure strength (no weapons).
If an attacking character's strength feat exceeds another character's durability showings then the attacking character can hurt them. Thor won't do jack if he's koed or killed.
3. What proof do you have that Superman can actually hurt him? What stops him from changing the flow of time? King Thor was able to manipulate time. where was it ever shown that OWAW Superman was immune to his level of magic? Where was it shown that this particular Superman was immune to Galactus or greater levels mind control? How is Superman supposed to stop a being that can not die? Could Superman die or was he above that as well?
4. keep up, I made the comment to show you that Superman is not the only one that can break out of tier. I never see you arguing against the full capacity rule when it's in your favor, but when it isn't you want to ignore it, and say that Thor doesn't always fight like this and that. Which is precisely why I brought it up.
you must be drunk. I never said how Thor would fight in a forum. I said that his lightning is not always at that level IN A COMIC. Buts that's irrelevant to this fight since we must only argue what a character showed. 5. I didn't fail at anything, it was your lack of understanding that failed to realize that RK Thor easily defeated a guy (Loki) while he was at Sky Father levels due to borrowing power from other very powerful beings. He was unable to stop RK Thor, and this is something that you can't just wriggle out of. The very idea that RK Thor was unable to die, or be affected on the physical level is what you're dealing with. This was clearly shown. You will not be able to prove that Mangog is not a threat to a Sky Father level being, because to do so, you would have to explain why Odin saw him as a threat.
It doesn't matter as he SHOWN what level he was operating at. It was far below mountain busting. FYI the Asgardians were operating at near human levels. Dieing by falling off bridges from 20ft high. Thor getting KOED by the ground after falling off Mangog back.
6. Should I believe that since we have never seen the LT, or Thanos with the IG move at super speeds, and move War World, that they would also have a difficult time with this over-hyped version of Superman? I'm not the only one that believes this. There are actually more people that believe that RK Thor would wipe the floor with him, than there are people that believe the contrary. The ones on your side keep saying the most ridiculous things, and if everyone went with it, they would have to believe that Superman with a fraction of the power of a star, had the power of thousands of galaxies. When you look at it, it seems like a pretty dumb stance to take.
Lt is abstract. Superman can't touch him. Thanos with IG durability was under galaxy level. He was affected by less and never tanked a higher attack.
Originally posted by Genii96
RKT shitstomps...we need a new section for superman tards.....LOL at beyonders being herald level
Based on the myriad of nonfeats he has, hyperbole or simple blind fanboyism?
Beyonders are below herald level, truth be told, if you see Starbrand higher than below Starbrand level and an argument can be made that they are below Thor and Hyperion level. A Herald can kill hundreds of them. It's canon, Humans are their Kryptonite and the Beyonders are the Kryptonite of the Marvel Abstracts.
Originally posted by Genii96Yet you won't actually debate with someone who believes Superman wins.
RKT shitstomps...we need a new section for superman tards.....LOL at beyonders being herald level
Originally posted by Mr Master
👆 ... RKT was omniscient too, and evolved beyond "Death."RKT (with one arm) effortlessly stopped a raging/charging Mangog,
then RKT wasn't fazed at all by Mangog's furious blows:RKT (again, effortlessly) erased Mangog with a thought:
As anyone knows, Mangog is far stronger and more durable than Thor.
To me, it's the nonchalant reaction RKT used in the feat.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
As RKT he had moved beyond Odin in power and wisdom. He had to or else he would not have been able to thwart "Those Who Sit Above in Shadow". I suggest you read or reread the arc if you have done so already.It's like asking someone to show Marvel Zeus destroying galaxies else he's far below Odin when we all know he's at least somewhere in his level if not equal every time they are compared on panel.
🙁
And he was never stated to be more powerful than Odin either. He just had to go beyond what Odin did to get the same power and knowledge.
Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ ... ey Stoic, matters little ...Super amped Loki (also wielding mjolnir) + his army, got stomped by RKT with a gesture:
RKT also keeps Loki alive after decapitating him effortlessly.
🙄
Originally posted by abhilegend
RKT didn't defeat those gods because he was more powerful than Odin. It's because his human nature made him unpredictable to them.And he was never stated to be more powerful than Odin either. He just had to go beyond what Odin did to get the same power and knowledge.
Yet RKT was shown to be above the fates. And previously in thor #197 and #348 it was explicitly shown that the fates are far above Odin.
Operator...good to see you back on. Remember back in the day when you had a solid argument for this showing? What post did you put together for this?
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=15395792#post15395792
One Punch and Mr. Masters are doing good but you had some concrete stuff when you argued this.
Originally posted by h1a8Those engines were not putting out anywhere near the full power of thousands of galaxies.
1. The Imperiex force is derived from absorbing thousands of galaxies since the dawn of time. Braniac exerted full power against Superman as stated in the comic.2. Without feats you can't prove that Mangog could bust a mountain with a single blow. I can show you every single showing of Mangog and mathematically prove that everything he did was under mountain busting strength. So if a character shows under mountain busting power in every single showing then are we supposed to assume they are far above that? When Odin fought Mangog he one shotted him easily. Mangog hit Thor repeatedly without koing him.
3. I said "or". He has to make an action before OR suffer no damage after many hits. What proof do you have that Thor can withstand a punch that could shatter a planet? Thor used a forcefield to stop Mangog, not his durability. Why did Thor choose a forcefield? Maybe Mangog could actually affect Thor?
4. Thor affecting CK with lightning has nothing to do with anything. Thor's lightning is not always operating at that level in other comics. Offense doesn't prove defense or durability. Lightning is magic and energy and not pure blunt force.
5. You still failed to prove that Thor can withstand a planet busting punch let alone a thousand galaxy one. Feats prevent no limits fallacy. Things must be quantified for characters in different companies.
Originally posted by carver9
Operator...good to see you back on. Remember back in the day when you had a solid argument for this showing? What post did you put together for this?http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=15395792#post15395792
One Punch and Mr. Masters are doing good but you had some concrete stuff when you argued this.
Your offenses are too many.
Do NOT think that the Operator can save you now!!!
Originally posted by carver9
Operator...good to see you back on. Remember back in the day when you had a solid argument for this showing? What post did you put together for this?http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=15395792#post15395792
One Punch and Mr. Masters are doing good but you had some concrete stuff when you argued this.
Actually according to your great hope Operator616, he said it wasn't Universal Death, BUT MULTI-VERSAL DEATH.
Originally posted by operator616
"worlds will dissolve, universes will perish"http://i.imgur.com/p6PWJhR.jpg?1
Implying that this death was multiversal.
All from this thread
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=586301&pagenumber=3
Maybe he's changed his mind and the death is no longer Universal like One Punch and Mr. Master are trying to claim.
Of course the semantical argument in that thread between Operator616 and Abhilegend and others was over if Superman "Defeated" Death or not, since Death was fine the next page after Superman punched through his own death, when death was intent on torturing and killing him and Superman prevented that from happening with his OWN POWER.
Their argument was never over the power level of the Death in the story Superman Where is Thy Sting?
But a semantical one on the contextual meaning of "Death's Defeat" and its interpretation.
I for one look at it simply like this
1. Was Death, using its vast powers, trying to kill Superman? Yes.
2. Did Death succeed? No.
3. Why? Superman punched through his own death (something that apparently no one else could do otherwise what is the conceptual point of the entire story you dig).
4. Was the abstract being Death permanently destroyed or damaged? No. But it WAS changed, realizing it was not the master of all things. How many characters can change the viewpoint of a fundamental abstract like Death after defying its control over life.
5. Was Death salty that Superman defied and "defeated" it? Yes.
Also looking at One Punch's argument if Death took superman through time to the end of the Universe, wouldn't that imply that when superman "pushed through the barriers of time and space" he TIME TRAVELED from the end of the Universe all the way back to the present day under his own power?
http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/abhilegend/media/Superman/supersting-58.jpg.html
Originally posted by Sensui
Maybe he's changed his mind and the death is no longer Universal like Mr. Master are trying to claim.
Mr Master was only debating a specific detail:
Did that "Death avatar" claim universeS in that Superman scene? Which is no!
Did that "Death avatar" destroy universeS in that Superman scene? Which is no!
Was that "Death avatar" responsible for the end of the universe in that Superman scene? Which is also no!
Now, if somewhere else it has been confirmed otherwise, I haven't seen it.
Originally posted by Sensui
1. Was Death, using its vast powers, trying to kill Superman? Yes.
Originally posted by Sensui4. Was the abstract being Death permanently destroyed or damaged? No.
But it WAS changed, realizing it was not the master of all things.
I can see how it would be pissed if it's one goal in existence is extinguished.
Originally posted by SensuiHow many characters can change the viewpoint of a
fundamental abstract like Death after defying its control over life.
