Mandrakk vs. Thanos w/ HOTU

Started by Naija boy15 pages

In regards to this mandrak eating of story thing, It simply should not be applicable in a vs forum match precisely because its in a neutral universe. This is because it has more to do with DCs metafictional approach to the construction of its stories than the retainment of a particular ability. It isnt viable because it directly clashes with the constraints of the more prevalent method of fictional writing which both Marvel,DC and most other companies regularly adopt and under which most KMC matches take place. For example, in Marvel the stories of its characters cant be eaten because the entire concept of "the story" itself being recognizable and distinct from the characters within it is non existent. Hence for Mandrakk to "eat their stories" we would have to assume that the Marvel characters "story" was a distinct entity that could be affected in the same way a character from DC's can. Consequently we would be disregarding the very nature in which the Marvel character was written and judging based solely on DC writing concepts.

Now vice versa, by invalidating the strategy of "eating the story" we are going against the metafictional construction of Mandrakk by DC. However im sure most will agree that the KMC vs environment is purely fictional and non self reflective environment. Further since the metafictional writing style isnt commonplace across most platforms and companies, when it comes down to choosing the default nature of KMC vs matches, the more regular fictional writing style should be used.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest

3. FORUM RULES. All powers work as though they were in their home universe. .

Marvel "stories" arent constructed in the same way as DC are. Hence they CANT be eaten. Case closed.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Marvel "stories" arent constructed in the same way as DC are. Hence they CANT be eaten. Case closed.

It wasn't really DC story though.

More the concept of story, just....story itself.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It wasn't really DC story though.

More the concept of story, just....story itself.

What i mean is that "Story" doesnt exist in Marvel the same way it does in DC and hence Mandrakks "eating of stories" automatically becomes invalid.

Originally posted by Naija boy
What i mean is that "Story" doesnt exist in Marvel the same way it does in DC and hence Mandrakks "eating of stories" automatically becomes invalid.

Story is story.

The Bleed is symbolic. Mandrakk isn't limited to the DC-specific story.

It's like saying Thor can't control DC lightning.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Story is story.

The Bleed is symbolic. Mandrakk isn't limited to the DC-specific story.

It's like saying Thor can't control DC lightning.


👆 nice!

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Story is story.

The Bleed is symbolic. Mandrakk isn't limited to the DC-specific story.

It's like saying Thor can't control DC lightning.

Not the same.

This has to do with DC's writing methods and character construction vs marvels. The Analogy is way off

Originally posted by Naija boy
Not the same.

This has to do with DC's writing methods and character construction vs marvels. The Analogy is way off

That method was a tool....

Used to convey a message...

The message reads "MANDRAKK IS IN UR COMICS EATIN UR STORIES!"

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
It wasn't really DC story though.

More the concept of story, just....story itself.

There is no story in a vs thread.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
That method was a tool....

Used to convey a message...

The message reads "MANDRAKK IS IN UR COMICS EATIN UR STORIES!"

The method is the only thing that made it possible for a character to eat another characters "story" in the first place. In another universe in which the same method has no bearings and in which a "story" is not treated from a metafictional perspective the entire idea of "eating stories" falls apart.

Originally posted by Naija boy
The method is the only thing that made it possible for a character to eat another characters "story" in the first place. In another universe in which the same method has no bearings and in which a "story" is not treated from a metafictional perspective the entire idea of "eating stories" falls apart.

Different interprations.

We won't get anywhere.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
1. Mandrakk by far.
2. Mandrakk again, but the method used to defeat him is impossible to replicate outside of the FC storyline.
3. FORUM RULES. All powers work as though they were in their home universe.
4. The fact that your idea is retarded for starters? 🤨 That idea is so stupid I don't even need to defend Mandrakk against it. You can't tear out the pages WHEN THERE IS NO STORY PERIOD. As for the CA? Impossible. Completely beyond Thanos's capabilities.

Mandrakk, the CA, and the Primal Monitor were more powerful than GOD. They were more powerful than the Presence itself. And it shows a deliberate misinterpretation of FC that you lowball them. The methods used to defeat Mandrakk cannot be duplicated by Thanos or anything other than Supes in the Cosmic Armor or the Prime Monitor itself. And before someone brings up the Miracle Machine, that was a weakened Mandrakk in Ogama's body.

1. Explain to me then Mandrakk best feats on panel
2. Also, tell me then did Thanos lose with the Heart and second mandrakk didn't lose to superman and such

Or bias knows no bound

Originally posted by Naija boy
The method is the only thing that made it possible for a character to eat another characters "story" in the first place. In another universe in which the same method has no bearings and in which a "story" is not treated from a metafictional perspective the entire idea of "eating stories" falls apart.

It is not an individual character's story that Mandrakk is eating, it is the very existence of the DC Universe itself.

DC = One giant story.

We, as human beings and the readers and creators of comic books, KNOW that comics are basically stories themselves. our lives are not stories, as we don't exist within that universe (that we know of).

Mandrakk and such figured out that their entire existence is basically a giant story, and he tried to destroy it.

Mandrakk would have annihilated DC itself if not for CA Superman, who was the personification not of his own stories, but of the very concept of what a superhero is.

Originally posted by Raoul
It is not an individual character's story that Mandrakk is eating, it is the very existence of the DC Universe itself.
DC = One giant story.

Understood. Though my argument still applies.I used particular characters because in a versus match the arguments have been Mandrakk eats "Insert character" story FTW.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Understood. Though my argument still applies.I used particular characters because in a versus match the arguments have been Mandrakk eats "Insert character" story FTW.

that's not how his powers work... at least i don't think so...

No, only superman's story can beat him. Like Galan said already, "everything comes from Superman".

Originally posted by Raoul
Bit of a stupid question, but, whatever, i don't read that much Thanos, so i might as well...

What the bloody hell is the HOTU?

Heh. Luckily, I have all the information you need. And probably more than you want...

Basically, the Heart of the Universe is an artifact made by TOAA especially for Thanos, granting Thanos TOAA's in-universe power (TOAA is the writer, and Thanos didn't get those 4th wall powers. But he has all the power of a truly Supreme Being does within the comics.)

xJLx didn't really explain the whole dying thing very well. The MU had a fundamental flaw in it, first caused by Wonder Man originally being brought back to life after dying. Various people being resurrected irreversably damaged the very fabric of the MU, to where it was dying. No one, not even Eternity was aware of this flaw. Only Thanos could perceive it, because of his omniscience. Being that he had died and was resurrected, he was part of this problem. After getting pissed off and destroying the omniverse, Thanos finally works up the courage to do what must be done and heal the flaw...in the process, he wipes out both himself and any trace of the HOTU. No one, not even the most cosmically aware (such as Watchers, etc.) remember Thanos's time as the Supreme Being of the MU. I'll post the relevant scans now. There's a lot of 'em, but they only take a quick look through to understand the scope of what was going on:

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU1.jpg
2. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU2.jpg
3. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU3.jpg
4. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU4.jpg
5. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU5.jpg
6. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU6.jpg
7. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU7.jpg
8. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU8.jpg
9. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU9.jpg
10. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU10.jpg
11. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU11.jpg
12. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU12.jpg
13. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU13.jpg
14. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU14.jpg

1. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem1.jpg
2. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem2.jpg
3. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem3.jpg
4. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem4.jpg
5. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem5_1.jpg
6. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem5.jpg
7. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem6.jpg
8. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem7.jpg
9. http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x287/Deywos/Thanos_HOTU_problem8.jpg

Kay. If you looked through all of that, you'll notice multiple occasions when its stated that he's supreme over all reality and all existence and was bonded to omni-reality and destroyed all. As well as Eternity and others acknowledging that he wielded the Supreme Power and was now the new Almighty. Occasionally they will use the term 'universe' but just as often they use the 'all reality' comment. And the 'universe' terminology is just fine...the title of the arc is Marvel Universe: The End. They're referring to the end of all of the MU, period. Personally, I think destroying a celestial with a gesture was the most awesome thing. 😛 But as you can see, he tanks LT's best shot like its nothing and absorbs everyone and everything easily. Thanos w/ HOTU was the Supreme Being of the Marvel Universe at the time and Mandrakk has zero chance at winning here.

It's also confirmed that Thanos was the Supreme Being of the MU in his official Marvel bio, and confirmed that he destroyed and recreated the MU in both his Marvel.com bio and Marvel.com 'Marvel Universe' history bio.

😎

Thanos' idiocy is just like Imperiex. Good Job eny at making me look like a 3rd grader

Originally posted by xJLxKing
Thanos' idiocy is just like Imperiex. Good Job eny at making me look like a 3rd grader

There was no idiocy from Thanos. Thanos was tricked by the writer's carefully laid out plot for him prior to ever becoming supreme. Which is why he acted irrationally and was so quick to anger, wiping out everything. The writer made him do it. But within the comics themselves, Thanos reigned supreme. And went out a hero who restored all existence. As TOAA knew only he could/would.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Understood. Though my argument still applies.I used particular characters because in a versus match the arguments have been Mandrakk eats "Insert character" story FTW.

The one argument for Mandrakk that's not been attacked by you, is that narrative is the only way the multiverse affects Mandrakk.

It's not so much that 'story' is being treated metafictionally, but that 'story' is the only reason Dax Novu/The Radiant One/ Mandrakk became what he is (this applies to the rest of the Monitors).

They were shaped by (and only by) the stories of creation (the multiverse). They were transformed by stories into vampiric hyper gods that feed on the multiverse.

Without this multiverse and it's life, they would have remained living voids, extensions of the Primal Monitor.