Jinzin: Any further discussion of FTB or FTL combat/reflex speed is here: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=509163
I've stated several times, I'm done wasting our discussion in this thread regarding this point. Bring it to a battlezone. You can feel free to just copy/paste your posts and we can continue the discussion as if it were ttransplanted or you can simply start the discussion compeltely anew. I feel your position is meritless and patently absurd. It's enough of a difference of opinion to settle this and not further spam this thread. As for the rest of your posts unrelated to the topic:
Originally posted by jinzinAnd yet, you still can't offer a reasonable guesstimation of how to allot the 1.2 seconds as I've repeatedly offered. Again, reasonable guesstimation. You're so confident it has nothign to do with Thor's actual combat speed, you must have quantified it in your mind, share how you did it. This is the third or fourth time I've asked.
Again, Thor flew down and hit his hammer on the ground. The speed is far more attributed to the speed Mjolnir could carry him and the speed of the shockwave itself than it is for Thor's combat speed no matter how much filler you would like to add to the action itself.
Originally posted by jinzinhttp://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Random/ThorSuperspeed19v234.jpg
no, the bricks are moving faster than Gladiator because they ARE moving faster than Gladiator.
You aren't being obtuse, I can tell now. You're just utterly and hopelessly confused by the obviousness of it all. So look at the scan again. Gladiator threw the building at him in the second panel. At that point, the bricks are ahead of him and travelling at a certain speed. Now look at the second and third panels. Gladiator has caught up to the bricks. If I throw a baseball, then subsequently zoom in after the baseball and catch up to the baseball's position, would my velocity need to be faster or slower than the baseball to accomplish that? This isn't hard, jinzin. Just think.
Originally posted by jinzinDespite the obvious lack of any citation, I don't care about successive punches thrown by the left and right arm. I care about swinging a mallet from one side and then swinging it to the other side with both arms. Baseball players or sword wielders have the best swinging speeds, if you dropped a truckload of toy blocks on top of them all at once, could they swing thei bat/sword in one direction and then the other and avoid having a single toy block get past them? Answer the question. I'd like to see what sort of grasp on reality you're operating here with. Because we both agree, that these bricks, which composed half a building weren't even moving at the speed of gravity, but faster.
regular humans have been capible of throwing up to 10 punches in a second... I seriously think you're giving the bricks too much credit here.I'm not lowballing Gladiator, I'm simply stating that he didn't blitze Thor as fast as he could have or even relatively fast at all... He WAS coming up behind the bricks and Thor let lose with two hits that made sound and THEN Glad's hit him... because we don't know what Gladiator's speed WAS then we have to look at what we do have.... and Thor hitting a building away with two swings, NO WAY IN HELL is more impressive than Wolverine dismantling Geist's entire skintight suit of armor down to mere coils faster than Giest could move.
Make a reasonable guesstimation of how fast Gladiator was speed-blitzing. You seem to have such a clear conclusion in your mind to deem this feat completely unimpressive. So tell me, how fast was Gladiator flying in those panels? Answer the question.
Originally posted by jinzinhttp://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8499/xmenv2133p03gm1.jpg
Yes... QUITE clear.. that if you think this is indicative of anything OTHER than a blitzhttp://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8499/xmenv2133p03gm1.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6867/bulletsidestepkq1.jpgThen you've CLEARLY lost it.
It IS garbage because it isn't what I argued at all.....
Again... for someone who wants to sling the term strawman around every other reply you make, you sure do one hell of a job makin em.Why bother with the first shot? He either thought he'd get lucky or was at a loss as to what else to do. He put the pistol down and then picked it up again while Logan's back was turned to fire. That's not spite, that's cowardice followed by deperation.
Again... as if Logan evading the bullet in bullet time wasn't enough.
Or being 20-40 feet away.
Or the fact that the terrorist didn't fire another round, or try to run, away, reason, or plead in response,
Or the fact that Wolverine's nothing but a colorless blur immediately after the bullet grazes his cheek you're still convinced this isn't a speed feat. As usual ignoring what you don't like or can't explain. Nice goin. It's sad that the writers and artists try to give readers like you enough credit to figure it out on your own, but you know better I guess.
It is a blitz. I never said it wasn't a blitz. Don't misrepresent my statements so you can rebut some other phantom argument and avoid the criticisms I actually lay down. Stop straw-manning. My position is, it's not a blitz that can be accurately measured to happen within the space of how quickly a man can fire two bullets in successive fashion.
Why bother with the first shot? Spite. He's seen Wolverine take an entire squad's worth of bullets. Exactly how lucky does he think he's going to get? A reasonable explanation is spite. He overcame his cowardice and shame for being scared into dropping his gun and fired it out of spite.
The terrorist didn't fire off another round. That's all we know. Whather he tried to or not, there is no reasonable way to tell. As such, there's no reason to assume the terrorist tried to pull off another successive shot based or that if he did so, he did it as fast as he could. There is no measurable reference with which to quantify that feat at all. You cannot deny that we have no idea how fast it occurred at all and instead misrepresented my position to rebut an argument I never made.
Originally posted by jinzinWolverine has never caught a fired tank shell in his bare hands, nor has he ever punked a true superspeedster, nor does he have microsecond feats, nor does he have nanosecond feats:
As YET to be proven on panel actually, which is why you're still here. Every comparison of explosive speed is similiar to one another and there has yet to be something that puts Thor above what most street levels have done.It's not a fact... Most of your speed feats are ambiguous as anyone elses... You just make more up for them while pretending like your criticisms for other people's speed feats don't apply to Thor.
Just because you ignore the on-panel feats that clearly surpass anythign Wolverine has done doesn't mean they aren't there. Ad ignorantium doesn't substitute for an argument.
My god your leading questions are more annoying than an episode of Friends.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And yet, you still can't offer a reasonable guesstimation of how to allot the 1.2 seconds as I've repeatedly offered. Again, reasonable guesstimation. You're so confident it has nothign to do with Thor's actual combat speed, you must have quantified it in your mind, share how you did it. This is the third or fourth time I've asked. http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Random/ThorSuperspeed19v234.jpg
Because there's nothing reasonable about the feat to actually determine anything about Thor's combat speed... The feat right off the bat makes little to no sense as the shockwave is supposed to be moving at the speed of sound for miles before reaching the kid but takes place within a 2 second time frame?
Yeah, if it's moving the speed of sound it would take nearly 4 seconds just to cover a mile. So all I can see is Thor slamming his hammer into the ground in 1.2 seconds... which isn't impressive.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0ZOMG Gladiator caught up to the brick wall that Thor was hitting back AT him? AMAZING!
You aren't being obtuse, I can tell now. You're just utterly and hopelessly confused by the obviousness of it all. So look at the scan again. Gladiator threw the building at him in the second panel. At that point, the bricks are ahead of him and travelling at a certain speed. Now look at the second and third panels. Gladiator has caught up to the bricks. If I throw a baseball, then subsequently zoom in after the baseball and catch up to the baseball's position, would my velocity need to be faster or slower than the baseball to accomplish that? This isn't hard, jinzin. Just think.
C'mon do you even think before you post this nonsense or do you just typing with nothing on upstairs?
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Again a leading question that doesn't fit the premise...
Despite the obvious lack of any citation, I don't care about successive punches thrown by the left and right arm. I care about swinging a mallet from one side and then swinging it to the other side with both arms. Baseball players or sword wielders have the best swinging speeds, if you dropped a truckload of toy blocks on top of them all at once, could they swing thei bat/sword in one direction and then the other and avoid having a single toy block get past them? Answer the question. I'd like to see what sort of grasp on reality you're operating here with.
The bricks were still part of a complete structure when Thor hit them and his strength could/would easily account for both the raw impact and shaockwave that would cause most of the debris to be sent hurdling away from him. You somehow think it's logical to compare that kind of raw power to typical baseball players? Doesn't surprise me.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Yes. I do.
Because we both agree, that these bricks, which composed half a building weren't even moving at the speed of gravity, but faster.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0I don't know.. that's the whole point... if you're going to disregard Logan's speed feats because they lack clearly stated indications of the speed he's using then you can't possibly do much with that feat than speculate.
Make a reasonable guesstimation of how fast Gladiator was speed-blitzing. You seem to have such a clear conclusion in your mind to deem this feat completely unimpressive. So tell me, how fast was Gladiator flying in those panels? Answer the question.
Originally posted by jinzinWhen Thor is being overwhelmed by faster or stronger opponents, he usually resorts to Mjolnir. Where are all these clear examples where he should rely on his speed and not Mjolnir and doesn't do so? because with a one-shot death touch by Hela, Thor used his speed. When Thor didn't have Mjolnir and Fenris and Loki were swinging away with Mjolnir replicas, he used hs speed to not get touched once.
WHICH IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT THAN THOR FIGHTING PEOPLE.
Wolverine usually wades through bullets because he knows he can take it and usually does. But how many times has he tried to avoid being shot and been unable to do so. It's not many.Alternatively there ARE many hard fought battles Thor has where he IS overwhelmed by faster or stronger characters in spite of not wanting to be and this mythical speed you think he has is nowhere to be found. The whole argument that Thor just doesn't use it because he doesn't want to is completely an argument of convenience because unlike Wolverine with bullets, Thor a lot of the times can't afford to just stand there and take it.
Originally posted by jinzinStop swearing. And I never made that argument so why try to put words into my mouth? Because you don't want to address my actual statements properly or you simply lack any argumentative merit and can't address them?
Actually yes... Many... MANY times... Your Wolverine hatin ass should be well aware of that by now.Exactly... so where's the on panel statement that Thor chooses NOT to use his speed to give his opponents a chance against him?
Completely off-point. Where's the on panel statement that Wolverine chooses NOT to use his speed to give his opponents a chance against him? Your line of reasoning is completely false. Because if you're arguing that Thor never stated he wasn't going to use his speed on an opponent, then when he is slower to deal with an opponent, such evidence proves he was slower and therefore must be used to rebut any higher speed howings he exhibits, at least when applied to fight scenarios. If you turn that exact reasoning back on Wolverine, you destroy his showings of speed as well as applied to fight scenarios. Are you also going to argue that Wolverine never stated that he wasn't going to use his speed on an opponent, then when he is slower to deal with an opponent, such evidence proves he was slower and therefore must be used to rebut any higher speed showings he exhibits, at least when applied to fight scenarios? Are you going to engage in more double-standards? Phail, much?
Originally posted by jinzinThor's combat speed has been proven in H2H combat, against Hela, Warlock and Surfer, Gladiator, Black Knight, Hulk, Heimdall, Hermes, Wrecker, Bor, Cobra, Phoenix, Enchanters, etc. Consistently engaging in ad ignorantium doesn't serve to infuse your falacious argumentation with any merit.
Because his combat speed has been proven IN COMBAT.... yknow... like Thor's slower combat speed.. which you keep trying to ignore.Which may very well be the case, but once again, when he gets backed into a corner, when his strength alone is not enough.. where the hell does his speed go? Where is it stated he witholds it to fight opponents.
Maybe he just resorts to Mjolnir as he does many times in the past? Do you read Thor comics?
Originally posted by jinzinThat's funny, because he deals with speedsters and superspeedsters all the time. And he has a long caeer of speed feats despite the fact that most of his stories revolve around his actual power and Mjolnir's wondrous abilities. We have a term on KMC for ignoring those feats and facts and you know full well what that is: lowballing, fanboyism, haterade.
Exactly....
Thor dodges when the sake of the story needs him to do so.... and when it's that plot driven and that sparce throughout his career.. we have a term for that on KMC and you know full well what that is.
Originally posted by jinzinThor was dazed from Loki attacking him and Ulik exploding. Way to read the comic. That's your assumption. It just shows Thor going H2H and owning them and not getting struck far worse than how Cap dealt with them, who has comparable speed to Wolverine. Oh, how the point flies over your head.
Cap had to block Thor in that fight from BOTH Fenris AND Loki's attaks because Thor wasn't "fast enough" to avoid them his damn self....
As far a trouncing them upclose in h2h..... They're not super skilled super fast warriors so I once again fail to see how this is impressive.. Both were getting embarrassed by Cap in the same time span....
Originally posted by jinzinScans of Cap dancing up Thor? Scans of Spidey dancing up Thor? Because I have scans of Spidey dancing up Spidey. Mongoose is far faster than Wolverine, genius. Thor embarassed Daredevil in their H2H fight. I never said Thor was a speedster. Way to straw-man and put words into my mouth again. Thor exhibits the combat speed and reflex speed that wouldn't make Wolverine's speed a factor in a H2H fight. Stop misrepresenting my positions just because you can't directly address my true assertions.
No I'd rather measure Thor up to how he TYPICALLY performs in H2H combat... which has him being danced around by guys like Cap, Spidey, Mongoose, Daredevil. And slugging it out with Hulk, Juggs, Thing, the Bloodbrothers, Bloodaxe etc... NOT A SPEEDSTER like you seem to think he is.....
Originally posted by OneDumbG0It's not a reasonable explanation when we've already seen how he was scared for his life to the point of putting the gun down. If it was spite and simply spite he wouldn't care and would have pulled the trigger the first time Logan told him to put it down... He waited until Wolverine turned away from him before he tried to shoot him in the head... you apparently think it's more reasonable that he shot once and then just what? let himself get his hand chopped off?
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8499/xmenv2133p03gm1.jpg
http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/6867/bulletsidestepkq1.jpgIt is a blitz. I never said it wasn't a blitz. Don't misrepresent my statements so you can rebut some other phantom argument and avoid the criticisms I actually lay down. Stop straw-manning. My position is, it's not a blitz that can be accurately measured to happen within the space of how quickly a man can fire two bullets in successive fashion.
Why bother with the first shot? Spite. He's seen Wolverine take an entire squad's worth of bullets. Exactly how lucky does he think he's going to get? A reasonable explanation is spite. He overcame his cowardice and shame for being scared into dropping his gun and fired it out of spite.
Yeah. VERRRRY reasonable. 🙄
Originally posted by OneDumbG0no of course not... he would wait as long as possible before pulling the trigger one more time or running away or doing anything that even remotely resembled self preservation.... yes, reasonable.
The terrorist didn't fire off another round. That's all we know. Whather he tried to or not, there is no reasonable way to tell. As such, there's no reason to assume the terrorist tried to pull off another successive shot based or that if he did so, he did it as fast as he could.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0Actually we do. We know that it occurred faster than the terrorist could do ANYTHING to attempt preventing it.... You want to pretend otherwise? Your perogative.
There is no measurable reference with which to quantify that feat at all. You cannot deny that we have no idea how fast it occurred at all
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
and instead misrepresented my position to rebut an argument I never made.Wolverine has never caught a fired tank shell in his bare hands, nor has he ever punked a true superspeedster, nor does he have microsecond feats, nor does he have nanosecond feats:Just because you ignore the on-panel feats that clearly surpass anythign Wolverine has done doesn't mean they aren't there. Ad ignorantium doesn't substitute for an argument.
first scan is comparible to any bullet time reaction or Wolverine's cruise missile catch. Oh wait, HIS missile was only going 50 mph. 🙄
2nd two scans are Mjolnir feats.
last two scans are as ambiguous as the terrorist feat so nice way to play both sides Onedumb you're a true inspiration.
Originally posted by jinzinBy my measure, sound travels 5 miles in 1 second. How did you arrive at your math?
Because there's nothing reasonable about the feat to actually determine anything about Thor's combat speed... The feat right off the bat makes little to no sense as the shockwave is supposed to be moving at the speed of sound for miles before reaching the kid but takes place within a 2 second time frame?Yeah, if it's moving the speed of sound it would take nearly 4 seconds just to cover a mile. So all I can see is Thor slamming his hammer into the ground in 1.2 seconds... which isn't impressive.
Originally posted by jinzin
ZOMG Gladiator caught up to the brick wall that Thor was hitting back AT him? AMAZING!
C'mon do you even think before you post this nonsense or do you just typing with nothing on upstairs?[/b][/quote]So you admit that Gladiator must have been flying faster than the bricks he threw. great way to add your stubborn facetiousness to a concession that you were completely wrong on how to address the scan. Now understanding that Gladiator was flyign faster than the thrown bricks. What's a reasonable guesstimation of how fast Gladiator was flying? Speed of sound?Don't avoid it. Because you clearly have a quantified guess as to how fast he's moving to render this feat compeltely unimpressive. So do it. Answer the question.
Originally posted by jinzinI don't see impacts or shockwaves being sent. Just the sound of Mjolnir hitting bricks. Are you projecting your assumptions onto the scan?
The bricks were still part of a complete structure when Thor hit them and his strength could/would easily account for both the raw impact and shaockwave that would cause most of the debris to be sent hurdling away from him. You somehow think it's logical to compare that kind of raw power to typical baseball players? Doesn't surprise me.
