Hercules vs. Wolverine/Deadpool

Started by jinzin15 pages
jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So unless a character uses their top speed in EVERY possible situation they could or would want to use it, that serves to invalidate their other speed feats? 😐
Who's strawmanning now?
hehehe.

No, but if Thor is as fast as you keep attempting to claim I.E. beyond instataneous reaction times... then him being hit by anything less than, god, the speed force? should pretty much never happen.. and yet.... *looks through Thor's entire career*

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah. Sorry, I don't subscribe to "jinzin's logic of phail."
I'm not sure that you subscribe to logic at all Mr. "Wolverine blitzing a soldier from 40 feet away before another shot could be fired means nothing about his speed"> Which BTW was an HILAAAARIOUS POV on that feat.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Unlike you, if Superman or Thor or Cap or even Wolverine happens to not exhibit their peak combat speed in EVERY instance, I don't engage in eliminating every speed feat they have.

At what point did I "eliminate every speed feat he has"? 😕
I was just commenting on the fact that this feat of yours is contradictory to another feat you posted and trying to bring attention to the convenient nature that is Thor's career. Nice flying off the handle with a red herring though....

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't pull this pathetic garbage in any debate ever again.

For someone who ignores as much evidence as you do.... I'll take this with a grain of salt.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't be a troll. You're terrible at it.

I'm not NEARLY your equal that's for damned sure.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You've read enough comics to know that using a conversation bubble's text is never a reliable way to measure the space of time within a panel. What, are we supposed to now measure just how long nightcrawler was falling based on Kitty screaming, then Angel pleading with the Professor and then Wolverine bragging about how he's going to save him before he actually lands?
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7726/elfcatchinlv7.jpg

Did you just debunk srankmissingnin's own scan with your amazing logic of phail? 😱

No. You didn't. Because comic characters pontificate all the time in mid-punch or mid-leap so much that it's a running joke. I already pointed this out in the last thread. Way to keep up with the program:


And you've read enough comics to know that Deadpool is a comedy act and some of it should ALSO be taken with a grain of salt.. Unless, you know Wolverine's cognative process and quick twitch muscles in his face, and vocal chords can produce such a long winded speech in such a limited amount of time....
Now, I'll agree perhaps that wasn't a very accurate attack on the feat and, while your rebuttle is fair in it's premise it doesn't follow your rhetoric as was already point out.

So I will say this. We see Thor hitting a building twice as it's tossed towards him it's quite ambiguous and the only notion that he's doing so fast is due to Gladiator's artistic representation which looks to be moving in quick... but once again not quicker than the building itself, so his speed can't be guaged at his fastest, or even fast AS some things, like sound for instance. It's impressive to a degree but it's not a quantifiable feat enough to say that he moves at speeds greater than Wolverine. Now again, perhaps you would like to adress why you keep ignoring Wolverine able to shred a skintight metal suit into coils so fast that his attacker didn't even realized what happened? How is this not nearly as impressive as Thor swinging his hammer twice in an equally ambiguous situation?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except that Thor is holding it and directing it in the direction he wants to make the trench.
😂

So again.. what the hell is this supposed to say about his speed?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
"Maybe I would like to show something remotely related to Thor's speed in combat?"
yeah, maybe you WOULD, but it being Thor you're trying to defend in THIS position it's going to be rather difficult.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What the hell do you think the near two dozen scans I've posted in our conversations were you slow-witted nunce?

😂 Considering I was adressing ONE scan there and not the entirety of them..... nice way to follow them trains of thought though Onedumb...

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Memory capacity of a retarded gold-fish, much? Fine, here's another one courtesy of Badabing:
http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/3656/thorspeed014aw.jpg
😆

Did you just compare my memory to that of a goldffish and then use a repeat feat which was already adressed immediately before this post? LOL

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Yeah, like how Wolverine's "zomg he blockz teh lazerz" feats didn't do much to help him getting his balls crushed by Punisher with a bat. FTL batswing? 😂
No it has to do with Punisher and Wolverine having comparible fighting speeds (which they do) .... and errrr Ennis... but mostly the fighting speeds.. you know like Wolverine does with Cap... who excells against Thor... 😐

The difference between me and you? I don't sit around pretending that Wolverine's fights with other characters are suddenly inconsequential when it comes to a discussion about his speed... IN FIGHTS... These laser blocking feats are only used to debunk the idea of Character X being faster than him based on similar stunts. WE ALL KNOW NO ONE SHOULD BE BLOCKING DAMNED LAZERS.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Except Juvan uses his superspeed and they both confirm he's using it in their struggle on-panel.

No they don't... Juvan claims he's the fastest.. yet all he did was jump towards Thor. It's no some display of Thor fighting on super fast levels.. It just isn't. It's like someone reacting to Quicksilver jumping at them from a high plain... It'd be better if he were running.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And as srankmissingnin has failed to show, why don't you post some scans of Wolverine tagging Rogue AFTER she began exhibiting clear super-speed later in her career. Because then, maybe you'd have a point.
You mean like right before she fought domina... and lost? Who got blitzed by Wolverine? Or even after that? Sure, http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1296/rogue2fa9.jpg
Note that Rogue reconizes Wolverine hesitates before he attacks.
He's clearly capable.. though to imply she wasn't using superspeed in flight even in her early career is once again ridiculous when she was covering nations and showed she could exit the stratosphere in practically no time at all.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And Speedball has never exhibited speed beyond Juvan's.
He did there. Compared to Juvan subjecting himself to gravity. Hell yeah he did.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Take your questions and project them right back onto Wolverine's. Why would I bother lowballing it? Your own criticisms amply answer how you or I would scrutinize that feat.
Exactly my point, they're the same thing.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And stop phailing at life with your whole, "zomg, look at the conversation bubbles to measure the space of time!" blah blah blah..
Like you did with the cruise missile?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You have got to suffer from some heretofore unseen level of retardation to suggest that Thor catching Hermes twice with his off-hand is based only on the speed Mjolnir grants him. Thor isn't even racing with Hermes in the second one. How is this a travelling speed feat?
Because he's using his hammer to attack Hermes. So Herme's inability to get out of the way is inconsequential and while he did grab Herm, it was as easy as leaving his hand out to hook him on the way by.
The impressive part was dodging Hermes, which is the more impressive feat to THORS credit there.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Or what... are you suggesting that Mjolnir magically increases the speed at which is other arm moves to snatch the God of Speed?
Already clarified what I was suggesting before you even made this post.. good job.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
🤨Too bad you're completely insane for Wolvie to notice that I've posted feats that match all of Wolverine's and surpassed them.
They only surpass them based on your bias perceptions of the events that have no factual backing to them. Where you lowball Wolverine while blowing Thor's feats out of proportion and then project what you're doing back on us... Which is also pure comedy gold to watcch...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Goldfish. Right. And I didn't say Thor was a speedster. Just that he has demonstrated the on-panel capacity for combat superspeed and reflex superspeed and Wolverine's speed does not allow him any sort of advantage over Thor. Anything but. Nuff said.
he necesarily has to be to outclass Wolverine in h2h to the degree you keep implying.. that's all there is to it. And the speed he has demonstrated is pretty much standard street level fair.... you just DECIDED they were more impressive because it was Thor doing them... You're right, you have said enough because I can't see how much deeper this grave you're digging yourself could possibly continue to get.

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Battlehammer: Don't you start up with the blocking lasers garbage too. You're smarter than that.Still you. It's not straw-manning when that's exactly what you're doing. Using any instance where he's hit by anything less than FTL attacks to suggest he cannot deal with FTL attacks... even though he has defended against FTL attacks? Garbage. Superman's been clonked by Atomic Skull, Thor's been punched by Cap, Cap's been tackled by paramedics, Wolverine's been nailed by a guy swinging a baseball bat.

It's in the SAME instance of the speed feat you're trying to support.. It's immediately self contradictory to the very premise of the argument you're creating. It doesn't take a genious to see through this and when the feat is ambigous to begin with WHILE it's been immediately contradicted, it's much easier to discredit or to simply not take it as a feat at the level you think it is. .

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Don't ever use this ridiculous debating tactic ever again.
What? LOGIC? 😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Maybe because you're so desperate for any tactic, no matter how illegitimate, and never defending against it, you can't perceive how atrocious the argumentation is. So try defending against this comparison:"No, but if Wolverine is as fast as you keep attempting to claim I.E. beyond bullet reaction times... then him being hit by anything less than, god, bullet speeds? should pretty much never happen.. and yet... *looks through Wolverine's entire career*"
EXACTLY THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE..... If we look at their entire in-fight career Wolverine's speed is made of much more use far more often and in far more impressive ways than is Thor's.
Don't tell me how atrocious this argument is because it's MOST ATROCIOUS to ANYONE who's mildly familiar with Thor and doesn't ride the coattails of "well he's a god soooo....."

The sheer insinuation that Thor's several actual speed feats throughout his entire career take precedence over the REST of his entire career is ludicrous beyond belief. Any in fight scenario Thor's been put in has him fighting like a brick on the daily and AT BEST being able to react to people like Surfer on his board using Warrior Madness.. which is inconsequential to this thread. All of his speed feats are either comparible or outright outstripped by Wolverine in ever facet.. The conclusion that Thor's more impressive just because is sickening.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Has the amount of phail in that sentence sunk in yet?Now he's 40 feet away and now you assume he was firing another shot. Which BTW is an HILAAAARIOUS POV on that feat.
Wolverine just sliced and diced an entire sect of terrorists who were clearly filling his jacket with a lot of holes... The man who fired at him was on his knees. He'd clearly have seen one bullet wouldn't be enough or would have at least tried to run away if he saw Logan coming from that distance and was able to react to it..
Desipite this common sense (the pillar of your origins argument as I recall), despite the distance shown between the two parties, despite the fact that we see Wolverine sidestep in bullet-time and despite the fact that Wolverine's nothing but a blur in the next panel, you've come to the conclusion that instead of a speed blitz this was something else.. Yeah.. hilarious.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
It's the logical progression of your blatantly ridiculous reasoning: If Thor was so fast, he'd never get hit by anything slower. But he does. Therefore he's not that fast. Of course, what happens to the feats that demonstrate he is that fast? They fly off to lala land? Next time keep up with your own logic and how it plays out. It might end up informing you how ridiculous it can be.You can throw a dash of pepper on it while you're at it.That's right. Because you troll far more than I do.
😂 as if that was the pillar of my argument... Once again, who's strawmanning now?

All I did was point out the immediately contradictory feat within the same feat as what was posted.. yet the ambiguous-ness of Thor running around or swinging his hammer outweighs the non-ambiguous Thor getting punched in the face?... whatever floats your boat I guess. 🙄

Badabing Gym rat

There are a few of you who need to breathe and learn to disagree. This thread has been off topic and debated in circles. I suggest that you all move on or maybe do a battlezone match. And this isn't directed to one person or whoever has a post above my post.

durverine durcules

iceman24567 Senior Member

um Herc ftw

jinzin Senior Member

team ftw x2

Phantom Zone Junior Member

Jesus Christ....

Bentley Seitei
Originally posted by Battlehammer
that not fighting at super speed and how is the more impressive then block laser firer

If he had to react to an attack that was launched at super speeds against a city it seems valid as a proof or reaction speeds.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by jinzin
Myths... you know... supported by narrative, feats, and more narrative.. and more feats... and more narrative.... yeah... but it isn't what YOU would have done in the same situation so it must be a myth... Moving on.
If you need a refresher on how I debunked the whole Wolverine never ate or rested during the whole Wolverine: Origins crapfest, reread the thread and your own admissions: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=488590&pagenumber=24
Originally posted by jinzin
Says the pot to the kettle. yeah never said Wolverine would dance around Thor while you DO keep insisting that Thor's speed feats clearly outstrip Wolverine's.. again it was the position you began defending.
Meh. Other posters like srankmissingnin and Accel, suggested it. So how would Wolverine's speed factor in this battle? And no, I didn't defend this position. I proved it.
Originally posted by jinzin
He didn't have to be in the room because he was using his HAMMER to fly...
Again, if your contention is that this is an OH-so impressive feat on Thor's part because he managed to use Mjolnir to precisely block one friggin dart then you need to understand that it doesn't say much about his speed at all.

Wolverine was behind Giest when Giest was told to start shooting, and somehow managed to get in front of him and block multiple darts while doing so before they reached their target.

"Superman didn't have to be near Lois, because he can fly." So... Superman catching a bullet is not a speed feat? Is that what you're really trying to suggest? Don't use semantics to dodge the question. Are these feats speed feats or travelling speed feats?

Giest didn't start shooting until Wolverine was already standing next to him. There's nothing to suggest Giest fired before Wolverine was already in position. Not even any speed lines that show Wolverine leaping in midair at the time he did cut the darts.

Originally posted by jinzin
Again his speed while flying INCONSEQUENTIAL...... his ability to hit the ground WOW... so much speed! And it would be impressive if the shockwave weren't moving at the speed of sound which means that most of the time taken to produce the feat came from Thor's ability to hit the ground.... How sad.
Guesstimate how long it took for him for each of these things: divert his direction down to the gruond, land and figure out the precise trajectory of the shockwave, slam his hammer down and have the shockwave travel to the other side of the city. You have 1.2 seconds to alot to all of that.
Originally posted by jinzin
That smiley suits you well... Are you touched in the head or something? Wolverine's 5'3 and dropped cigars from that shoulder length don't even take 2 seconds to hit the floor, hell they don't even take ONE.... As I said 2 seconds was being QUITE generous it's monumentally more impressive than hitting the ground once "within" the span of 1.2 seconds.. this is not up for debate....
Except Wolverine himself says it's 2 seconds. On-panel. 😐

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by jinzin
What I'm suggesting, since I was obviously giving you too much credit to follow, is that he produced a microsecond feat in the same regard as Thor... unless you think Scott's blasts travel at a slower pace than bullets, which they've already been said to be as dense and fast....
Microseconds? Nanoseconds would be required for your delusional play on that scan. Straw-man again. Because Wolverine didn't do all that after Scott blasted him. He did that as Scott was blasting him with several shots and after telegraphing his shots, he stood his ground and swung at the precise moment he saw Cyclops touch his visor.
Originally posted by jinzin
Again do you even comprehend what the word instantaneous even means?

If the effects of the bolt where as instantaneous as telepathy Thor necessarily COULDN'T react after it was fired.... no one could. It's simple logic...

The words are synonyms for each other. They even are used to define each other. facepalm

You did it again. You assumed you're conclusion. People have never put up psi-shields to telepathic attacks before? Okie.

Originally posted by jinzin
Execpt that Wolverine's done it with multitudes of lazers in dark rooms or against entire armies, or while doing multiple training excersizes. When it would be rather impossible to do any such thing.... Of course this is just another example of your endless hypocrisy at work...

Did you just try to argue that me saying Thor can't do it because he's not fast enough is a logical fallacy? "hey hey POT!" "**** OFF KETTLE!"

Except you've never shown a scan where it's been shown the Wolverine reacted only after the laser's been fired.

Jinzin. Don't be a dunce. Unless you prove that someone fired the laser before the character was in position to evade or defend against the laser, you cannot assume that doing so is evidence of FTL reflexes. Otherwise, Cap, Batman, Daredevil and hell... even THOR himself would all have FTL reflexes. Don't be a dunce. And don't swear.

Originally posted by jinzin
The robot was already activated before Wolverine kicked Rogue out of the way. I see... so when it's pheonix, shooting bolts it's an instantaneous reaction feat, when it's a lazer turning on to fire, it's nothin.. convenient as usual.

You're right because one of them involves moving at the speed of thought and the other involves moving fast enough for physically manifested psionic energy to travel.. One is obvious and the other's ambiguous... One's more impressive and the other's Thor..

The robot was activated. The laser wasn't fired. Slight difference, slick. The distinction? Phoenix already fired the telepathic blast and Thor's arms weren't in position.

Only if you assume that the telepathic blast isn't as fast as telepathy, which is what it is... and that it isn't instant... like it describes on-panel.

Originally posted by jinzin
to assume it was going a mere 50mph especially when it was en route long before Wolverine got ahold of it, is just plain asinine.

Which parts? Wolverine's riding around on it for some time before the end
How about you show me the tank feat.
And again defecting to this nonsense of being undetectable to the human eye... Rockets are used to reach escape velocity.. and it isn't undetectable to the human eye... The ability to see a rocket vs. a tank shell isn't contingent on speed alone...

No.. some of them are. But not on the by and large.. they are around the same speed.

Good thing I never assumed it was going 50 mph.

I can show you the tank shell feat later. Not at home now. You show me the pages preceding and following the rocket-ride.

No they are not around the same speed. Artillery and tank shells are much faster than any bullet.

Originally posted by jinzin
Thor has never demonstrated better combat speed OR reflex speed... and it WOULD certainly be news to me if Thor were superfast because I've been reading Thor comics for a number of years now and haven't seen this superspeed you keep deciding that he has...
Except I posted scans where he does demonstrate better combat speed OR reflex speed. News to you, because you have the memory of a goldfish and can't think back a few pages.

Phantom Zone Junior Member

^ Wasting your time mate. Sometimes its good for a laugh to see how much hes gonna stretch shit.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by jinzin
And you've read enough comics to know that Deadpool is a comedy act and some of it should ALSO be taken with a grain of salt.. Unless, you know Wolverine's cognative process and quick twitch muscles in his face, and vocal chords can produce such a long winded speech in such a limited amount of time....

Now, I'll agree perhaps that wasn't a very accurate attack on the feat and, while your rebuttle is fair in it's premise it doesn't follow your rhetoric as was already point out.

Leave it the underlined part. The "rhetoric" is exactly based on that. Conversation bubbles are not an accurate reference to measure the space of time it takes to fall, leap or punch.
Originally posted by jinzin
So I will say this. We see Thor hitting a building twice as it's tossed towards him it's quite ambiguous and the only notion that he's doing so fast is due to Gladiator's artistic representation which looks to be moving in quick... but once again not quicker than the building itself, so his speed can't be guaged at his fastest, or even fast AS some things, like sound for instance.
No, Gladiator flying isn't the only indication. Because no debris hits him even though it's all thrown at once. Gladiator had to be moving faster than the building debris because he catches up to it AFTER he had already thrown it. You're confusing yourself.
Originally posted by jinzin
Considering I was adressing ONE scan there and not the entirety of them..... nice way to follow them trains of thought though Onedumb...

Did you just compare my memory to that of a goldffish and then use a repeat feat which was already adressed immediately before this post? LOL

No it has to do with Punisher and Wolverine having comparible fighting speeds (which they do) .... and errrr Ennis... but mostly the fighting speeds.. you know like Wolverine does with Cap... who excells against Thor...

Sarcasm was lost on you. I won't waste the wit next time.

I've seen street thugs stab Wolverine. Any point to Wolverine's overall combat speed? No.

Yeah. Your train of thought where, with each single feat you criticize, you guys exclaim, "Thor hasn't demonstrated this kind of feat before! So it must be PIS!" or "This isn't a speed feat! Show me a speed feat!" All this when you've been presented with multiple scans where he's demonstrated that kind of feat. Yeah.

Originally posted by jinzin
The difference between me and you? I don't sit around pretending that Wolverine's fights with other characters are suddenly inconsequential when it comes to a discussion about his speed... IN FIGHTS... These laser blocking feats are only used to debunk the idea of Character X being faster than him based on similar stunts. WE ALL KNOW NO ONE SHOULD BE BLOCKING DAMNED LAZERS.
It's been explained several times to you. You can block lasers, if you've had the chance to telegraph their shot and bring your shield/claws/spinning Mjolnir into position before the laser is fired. If I know someone's aiming at my head, and I bring up a mirror before someone shoots a laser at my face, I'll deflect it. It's called common sense. It's called comics. Elektra: Dark Reign #2 explains this exact premise in detail off the top of my head. You keep continuing on such a ridiculous method of argumentation that you've failed to realize that if we do use those kinds of feats to measure speed, then Thor and Wolverine are at least equals. Because Thor blocks lasers and bullets all the time. Drop this type of feat unless you can positively show that the character wasn't in position by the time the laser began it's discharge.
Originally posted by jinzin
No they don't... Juvan claims he's the fastest.. yet all he did was jump towards Thor. It's no some display of Thor fighting on super fast levels.. It just isn't. It's like someone reacting to Quicksilver jumping at them from a high plain... It'd be better if he were running.

You mean like right before she fought domina... and lost? Who got blitzed by Wolverine? Or even after that? Sure, http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1296/rogue2fa9.jpg
Note that Rogue reconizes Wolverine hesitates before he attacks.
He's clearly capable.. though to imply she wasn't using superspeed in flight even in her early career is once again ridiculous when she was covering nations and showed she could exit the stratosphere in practically no time at all.

He did there. Compared to Juvan subjecting himself to gravity. Hell yeah he did.

It's a display of Thor punking a superfast opponent. Like his other speedster punking feats are.

Ah yes. Because you've aptly shown that Domina both used her superior speed to beat Rogue and her use of superior speed was inadequate to Wolverine. Wait. No you didn't. Show the previous page on the Rogue-tackle scan. Also travelling speed is not combat speed.

Don't project what you're trying to prove onto the scan without support.

Originally posted by jinzin
Because he's using his hammer to attack Hermes. So Herme's inability to get out of the way is inconsequential and while he did grab Herm, it was as easy as leaving his hand out to hook him on the way by.
The impressive part was dodging Hermes, which is the more impressive feat to THORS credit there.
Thor never attacked Hermes with his hammer. I have no idea where you see that.
Originally posted by jinzin
he necesarily has to be to outclass Wolverine in h2h to the degree you keep implying..
No. Because in addition to his proven combat speed and reflex speed, incredible durability, incalculable strength, unmatched stamina and great fighting skill. Those put together allow him to outclass Wolverine in H2H. Straw-man argumentation again...

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by jinzin
It's in the SAME instance of the speed feat you're trying to support.. It's immediately self contradictory to the very premise of the argument you're creating. It doesn't take a genious to see through this and when the feat is ambigous to begin with WHILE it's been immediately contradicted, it's much easier to discredit or to simply not take it as a feat at the level you think it is. .
No, it's not. Because Phoenix fired the blast and it started racing at Thor when he was out of position. We clearly see that on-panel. Whereas you've never shown me where someone fires a bullet or a laser and it started racing at Wolverine when he was out of position. Not a single scan. It's not the same.
Originally posted by jinzin
EXACTLY THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE..... If we look at their entire in-fight career Wolverine's speed is made of much more use far more often and in far more impressive ways than is Thor's.
Don't tell me how atrocious this argument is because it's MOST ATROCIOUS to ANYONE who's mildly familiar with Thor and doesn't ride the coattails of "well he's a god soooo....."
Look at the progression that you and your pals have been forced through? You all argued that Thor fights like a slow brick... then Thor has no on-panel superspeed feats... then Thor's superspeed feats are PIS... then Thor doesn't use his speed as much as Wolverine. That devolution of your original stance is a clear indicator that you are in no position to comment on Thor's "entire in-fight career."
Originally posted by jinzin
The sheer insinuation that Thor's several actual speed feats throughout his entire career take precedence over the REST of his entire career is ludicrous beyond belief. Any in fight scenario Thor's been put in has him fighting like a brick on the daily and AT BEST being able to react to people like Surfer on his board using Warrior Madness.. which is inconsequential to this thread. All of his speed feats are either comparible or outright outstripped by Wolverine in ever facet.. The conclusion that Thor's more impressive just because is sickening.
Whoops. You just devolved back into Thor fights like a brick. Despite my proving that he doesn't many times. Usually when he doesn't have Mjolnir. How oddly apropos. Because it's revealing that in a situation where Thor doesn't have Mjolnir, nor any of his weather powers or energy projection powers, and up against someone who you claim could tear him to pieces... Thor fighting at full capacity wouldn't rely on his speed and reflexes...

Don't be delusional. If you matched up Wolverine's best feats with Thor's, Thor's list beats em, straight-up. maybe you didn't think it could be done, but it has.

Originally posted by jinzin
Wolverine just sliced and diced an entire sect of terrorists who were clearly filling his jacket with a lot of holes... The man who fired at him was on his knees. He'd clearly have seen one bullet wouldn't be enough or would have at least tried to run away if he saw Logan coming from that distance and was able to react to it..
He'd also clearly see that even an entire pistol clip would be worthless. Your point? It flew right over your own head.
Originally posted by jinzin
as if that was the pillar of my argument... Once again, who's strawmanning now?

All I did was point out the immediately contradictory feat within the same feat as what was posted.. yet the ambiguous-ness of Thor running around or swinging his hammer outweighs the non-ambiguous Thor getting punched in the face?... whatever floats your boat I guess.

It is the pillar of your argument. Once you remove it, you remove all justification to suggest that Thor's higher end speed feats are valid. It's whatyou're forced to resort to, because you don't have higher end feats for Wolverine to match.

Lowballing Thor with retarded logic that would either: (i) imbue Thor, Wolverine, Cap and Batman all with FTL reflexes because "they blockz teh laserz!" or (ii) or would reduce Wolverine's own speed because he gets clonked by common thugs like Thor gets clonked by Cap? That floats your boat. Not mine.

iceman24567 Senior Member

LOL "that floats your boat not mine"

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Badabing
There are a few of you who need to breathe and learn to disagree. This thread has been off topic and debated in circles. I suggest that you all move on or maybe do a battlezone match. And this isn't directed to one person or whoever has a post above my post.

durverine durcules

Good idea.

I suggest a battlezone match that evading/blocking bullets or lasers isn't evidence of bullet speed or FTL reflexes unless the bullet/laser's fired before the character moves. Takers? Because I never want to debate that suggestion ever again and waste my time with it.

leonidas MWHAHAHAHA!
Originally posted by jinzin
Which if this was a fact would be a good point.. but it isn't a fact. C'mon you're better than THIS... You're assuming that someone Hercules is afraid of being cut by doesn't even begin to make Thor think he'd need to move? That's pretty ridiculous and Thor's career doesn't exactly lend itself to make him believe he's beyond being eviscerated by Adamantium claws.

not while he's sporting the odinpower. and what's this 'herc is afraid' schtick? because he'd rather not face the claws when he has a perfectly good shield to use to block? that's hardly fear--that's common sense. 😬

using the Odinforce.. not this drastic speed he's supposed to have.

where did i say otherwise . . .? 😕 my point was with the OF thor wasn't afraid and hence had no reason to even TRY and dodge or . . . do anything really. which is why he just stood there when logan attacked.

If you can't see how this is relivent.. I can't help you really.

it's irrelevent because he does not always display speed. but like i've said too many times--he's shown enough speed feats that a demonstration of speed from him is NOT pis.

Except glads took the advantage to Thor due to speed and the SS thing was WM which I already disclude.

again--never. happened. thor was disarmed not due to speed--but rather due to the fact that he thought glads a friend and was not expecting an attack. glad's speed was NEVER an issue for thor in any combat between them.

It's a degree that doesn't surpass anything that most 1st class street levels have done.

which is all that is really required to match logan.

I already said the initial clash had him using his speed. 😕
Not while they were exchanging sword blows though which was vastly different in comparison and clearly so.

i'd disagree. the art, the rendering of the lines in the background, still gave the impression of speed to me. to assume thialfi just decided to fight slowly makes no sense.

Now if it's your contention that Thor can move at that "almost faster" speed for longer than any streeter could I guess that's YOUR perogative.

indeed it is. AND he can do hell-a-more than any of them can due to his strength. combine the digging AND the speed AND the duration and it IS more impressive than a simple brief speed display.

Not really. Especially since when people like Glads DO turn up the heat Thor's hammer gets launched out of his hands.. hmmmm..... strange.

not so strange when you realize it never happened. 😉

jinzin Senior Member

❌

Let's get something straight off the bat, Elektra dark reign is using an Elektra who's practically on her last leg, it's no indication of her typical speed which has her blocking automatic gunfire by the individual bullet which has nothing to do with "aim blocking" like you're talking about, and once again, all I see is you scraping the bottom of the barrel here to lowball everything Wolverine's done while blowing Thor's feats out of proportion... Seriously.... to use his hammer while flying around to slam into the ground taking the majority of 1.2 secons is NO indication that he's faster than Wolverine in combat, nor is batting a building away with two swings.... Both of those are more strength related than speed....

Now, I'm not going to sit here endlessly debating these circles with you as I already did what I came here to do an matched you feat for feat regardless of your one sided bias nitpicking when you're not straight up ignoring what I posted.... At the end of the day they both have similar explosive speed feats reacting to lasers, having "nano and microsecond" feats (No matter that you apparently think Scott's beams are slower than arrows or that Wolverine has eyes in the back of his head for that matter), both have tagged speedsters and reacted to speedsters in the same fashion, both have delt with every kind of projectile out there....... Now... for some reason you think Thor's feats are more impressive when they've done the same things for no other reasons than your endless nitpicking robbing any benefit of the doubt at all as was clear with the terrorist blitze..... and yet as you've already pointed out: the same criticisms that you've argued against Wolverine's feats can be used to argue against Thor's.

My point is simple, when both characters have the same feats of explosive speed and we're having a discussion about their h2h speed, then we need to look at their hand to hand performances which in Thor's case..... are not impressive a good majority of the time. The simple fact is that Wolverine regularly outperforms him in h2h speed and if the best counter argument anyone can come up with for that is "Well why SHOULD Thor use his speed in fights" then I'm at a loss to even begin to educate such willful ignorance.

The fact of the matter is that Thor's speed is not an impressive enough thing in about 99% of his fights to say he's legitimately faster than Wolverine in combat. Yes he has some speed feats, very few and far between in his career but they're hardly more impressive than typical street level fair no matter how much filler you want to impose on each feat, and when those feats are an outliner for a characters typical performancce by that kind of ratio anyway... we have a term for that around here..... I'm sure you know full well what that is.

jinzin Senior Member

Originally posted by leonidas
not while he's sporting the odinpower. and what's this 'herc is afraid' schtick? because he'd rather not face the claws when he has a perfectly good shield to use to block? that's hardly fear--that's common sense. 😬
Everytime Wolverine's ever pulled a "snikt" on him he lets out a ZOUNDS with a terrified look on his face.
And Thor in the reiging did not appear to be significantly more durable than he's ever been before.. perhaps I missed that?

Originally posted by leonidas
where did i say otherwise . . .? 😕 my point was with the OF thor wasn't afraid and hence had no reason to even TRY and dodge or . . . do anything really. which is why he just stood there when logan attacked.
No he put one arm in defense up while handing of Magni off he simply wasn't fast enough to get out of the way and it isn't because he didn't percieve Logan as a threat... 'less you have some scan proving otherwise.

Originally posted by leonidas
it's irrelevent because he does not always display speed.
... when he flat out needs to be... that's the problem.

Originally posted by leonidas
again--never. happened. thor was disarmed not due to speed--but rather due to the fact that he thought glads a friend and was not expecting an attack. glad's speed was NEVER an issue for thor in any combat between them.
It's as someone pointed out in the previous thread. Were Thor fast enough to react to Glads he would have.

Originally posted by leonidas
which is all that is really required to match logan.
Never claimed otherwise.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd disagree. the art, the rendering of the lines in the background, still gave the impression of speed to me. to assume thialfi just decided to fight slowly makes no sense.
The ENTIRE ARC he was shocked to think he even had to engage Thor like he did, he questioned himself through the whole story. Even as he approached Thor he states how he does so with a heavy heart. A bit of hesitation given that fact makes no sense to you?

Originally posted by leonidas
indeed it is. AND he can do hell-a-more than any of them can due to his strength. combine the digging AND the speed AND the duration and it IS more impressive than a simple brief speed display.

I'll ask you again, do you NOT liken this to apples and oranges? It's like comparing a sprint race to a long distance marathon.

Originally posted by leonidas
not so strange when you realize it never happened. 😉
Except for twice.

Battlehammer Senior Member

Originally posted by Bentley
If he had to react to an attack that was launched at super speeds against a city it seems valid as a proof or reaction speeds.

It not him fighting at suer speed and it not faster then a laser so it quite irelevent

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