Completed Palpatine Essay

Originally posted by Darth Angel
My problems with this are:

1) As I said, the very sith knowledge that Sidious had access from the sith order himself should be far greater then whatever force religion he could find around the galaxy, which would mean that 99% of his dark side knowledge should already be in his possession before he became the emperor.

You're jumping back into the disposition of "random speculation" being canon when it suits your purposes. You don't get to throw an arbitrary number as to evaluate Palpatine's Force knowledge. The fact that the Sith and the Jedi were the most famous or largest Force wielding cults out there doesn't mean that they are necessarily the most knowledgeable or that Palpatine had access to the full scope of their knowledge until his ascension to Emperor, where he had the resources to collect them without detection.

2) Now, even if we can think that during his reign as emperor he gathered and extended his force knowledge, thus increasing his power (even though as I said before I hardly think he could have greatly extend his knowledge about the dark side), what kind of knowledge could have he got during the years post endor? I mean, hadn't he "gathered the works of millions of worlds"? So, what kind of knowledge could he got from ROTJ until the DE? In fact, the only thing I can think is the force storm, sure, he had now a new weapon (one he couldn't control though), but taking that, I see no other reason for him to become more powerful.

No one said that he became "tremendously powerful" between RotJ and DE; we said he became "tremendously powerful" from RotS to DE.

Originally posted by Gideon

Right. And it's impossible and implausible for three million clones to fight a three year, galactic-level war against a quadrillion battle droids.

But hey, it happened. It's still canon. Get over it.

You know, I think one could could say that the author of the source book was using hyperbole as a way to show that Palpitine had amassed a ton of Force knowledge, but to take it literally is ridiculous.

A 12 Page Essay.....A..Twelve..Page..Essay

A FREAKIN TWELVE PAGE ESSAY! o.o

You Sir have ruined a good four hours of your life.

Sir..I am a Star Wars Nut...N-U-T..That means im one brain cell short of being a freaking SW Psycho...BUT YOU SIR...You...You...Y....YOU SIR are literally IN THE LOONY BIN AND BEYOND.

You are on some serious Crack man...You are on that good stuff FO REAL!. O.o

You are not a Nerd or a Geek ... YOU are a completely different category ALL BY YOURSELF you are freaking obsessive.

You scare me...DONT EVER WRITE A 12 Page Essay on a Fictional Story every again...Or I will jump through this screen and smack you into your normal mind sir.

No Offense.

Peace and Beer for a long time.

Fo Real Man.....you have GOT to be kidding me o.o

You're weird.

But seriously.

Single... Sing... S... SINGLE SPACED!1??!

Dude, who gives a **** how Gideon spends his time? So he did it during his spare time(however long that may be) and it was 12 pages. I could care less. You insult him and then say "no offense," seriously?

Originally posted by Autokrat
You know, I think one could could say that the author of the source book was using hyperbole as a way to show that Palpitine had amassed a ton of Force knowledge, but to take it literally is ridiculous.

Perhaps if the passage was filled with unsubstantiated, vague accolades, but that isn't the case. Not only does it cite "over a million worlds," but it gives specific examples of the Force disciplines he has studied and mastered.

Once again, it seems to be the general rule that whenever something of this nature is attributed to Palpatine, skeptics are quick to call it "vague," "ambiguous," or "hyperbole."

It is not hyperbole merely because you say it is. Palpatine was a prodigious Force user who ascended to a position where his political and military means were limitless. Do you understand? His reach was far greater than the likes of Darth Revan, Naga Sadow, Marka Ragnos. He ruled the entire galaxy for two decades and was able to spend unlimited resources scouring it for Force knowledge.

What's so hard to believe? He was clearly in a position to gain far more knowledge than any of his predecessors, whose resources were vastly inferior or who had to lay low in order to avoid detection by the Jedi and Republic.

Originally posted by MasterAshenVor
A 12 Page Essay.....A..Twelve..Page..Essay

A FREAKIN TWELVE PAGE ESSAY! o.o

You Sir have ruined a good four hours of your life.

Sir..I am a Star Wars Nut...N-U-T..That means im one brain cell short of being a freaking SW Psycho...BUT YOU SIR...You...You...Y....YOU SIR are literally IN THE LOONY BIN AND BEYOND.

You are on some serious Crack man...You are on that good stuff FO REAL!. O.o

You are not a Nerd or a Geek ... YOU are a completely different category ALL BY YOURSELF you are freaking obsessive.

You scare me...DONT EVER WRITE A 12 Page Essay on a Fictional Story every again...Or I will jump through this screen and smack you into your normal mind sir.

No Offense.

Peace and Beer for a long time.

Fo Real Man.....you have GOT to be kidding me o.o

Your hardcore thuggery is evident, penetrating the anonymity of the internet.

Thank you for this well-written and insightful lecture, dawg, fo real.

Really, a galaxy of millions of planets and planetoids, countless beings, and 25,000 years of recorded history is hard to fit in to the mythos in enough detail to placate our curiosity and doubts. That's kinda the fun of Star Wars. The knowledge that the lord and master of the galaxy would have had numerous servants, accolades, and agents isn't out of the realm of feasibility in the slightest. Just because we only get details of some does not correlate to those "some" being the only ones. I like to think there were thousands and thousands of minions out there collecting for Palpatine. We don't need all their names and biographies.

Originally posted by RaidenDeadpool
Aye Dios mio...

Quoted for truth.
Good read none the less.

You're jumping back into the disposition of "random speculation" being canon when it suits your purposes. You don't get to throw an arbitrary number as to evaluate Palpatine's Force knowledge. The fact that the Sith and the Jedi were the most famous or largest Force wielding cults out there doesn't mean that they are necessarily the most knowledgeable or that Palpatine had access to the full scope of their knowledge until his ascension to Emperor, where he had the resources to collect them without detection.

Obviously I am not using a random number as canon, I was merely trying to show that Palpatine's core knowledge should have came from the Sith order, and I think the dark sider sourcebook states that by Phantom Menace he had already plenty of dark side knowledge. Besides, I hardly believe that his dark side knowledge would be less then incredible. As for the resources to collect them, we even see Dooku with darth andeddu's sith holocron in hand, so I doubt tha dooku would have any problem in looking for that knowledge, or either show it to his master, as if it would teach anything new to him anyway.

No one said that he became "tremendously powerful" between RotJ and DE; we said he became "tremendously powerful" from RotS to DE.

So, you are basicly saying that Sidious became very powerful between Rots and Rotj, which once again brings my first topic. However, it seemed to me that you were implying that Sidious became tremendously powerful between Rotj and DE since you said "Mastery of such a great range of techniques obviously makes him much more powerful than his last incarnation.".

Originally posted by Darth Angel
Obviously I am not using a random number as canon, I was merely trying to show that Palpatine's core knowledge should have came from the Sith order, and I think the dark sider sourcebook states that by Phantom Menace he had already plenty of dark side knowledge. Besides, I hardly believe that his dark side knowledge would be less then incredible. As for the resources to collect them, we even see Dooku with darth andeddu's sith holocron in hand, so I doubt tha dooku would have any problem in looking for that knowledge, or either show it to his master, as if it would teach anything new to him anyway.

So, you are basicly saying that Sidious became very powerful between Rots and Rotj, which once again brings my first topic. However, it seemed to me that you were implying that Sidious became tremendously powerful between Rotj and DE since you said "Mastery of such a great range of techniques obviously makes him much more powerful than his last [B]incarnation.". [/B]

Let's say 50% of Palpatine's knowledge comes from sith teachings, and the other 50% comes from all the other force cults he studied. That would still make the sith teachings his greatest base of knowledge.

Originally posted by Darth Angel
Obviously I am not using a random number as canon, I was merely trying to show that Palpatine's core knowledge should have came from the Sith order, and I think the dark sider sourcebook states that by Phantom Menace he had already plenty of dark side knowledge.

Eh? Palpatine was a Sith; of course his "core knowledge" comes from the Sith Order. But that's not the point. Mastery over more Force techniques tends to make a person "more powerful" in that their knowledge of the Force is broader and they have more powers to draw from; the Sith, however important, however reputable, however powerful, are only one source of dark side information. Palpatine was a scholar; he sought answers and teachings from the galaxy abroad. The fact that he had a "wealth of dark side knowledge" (according to the Dark Side Sourcebook) is irrelevant. We're not saying he was ignorant or stupid prior to his ascent to Emperor; we're saying that his knowledge increased several times over in scale and magnitude.

What are you trying to prove here?

Besides, I hardly believe that his dark side knowledge would be less then incredible.

No one said that it was less than incredible. But Palpatine was a Sith of Bane's Order; he was forced to remain hidden and relatively immobile in order to avoid Jedi detection. Add to the fact that he was a Senator and Supreme Chancellor, he lacked the time and resources -- particularly when managing the Clone Wars -- to go off galavanting around the galaxy seeking Force knowledge. He had appearances to maintain due primarily to the threat of the Jedi.

When he became Emperor, the Jedi were significantly neutered as a threat. He left day-to-day management of the Empire to advisors such as Sate Pestage, allowing him to immerse himself in study of the Force.

As for the resources to collect them, we even see Dooku with darth andeddu's sith holocron in hand, so I doubt tha dooku would have any problem in looking for that knowledge, or either show it to his master, as if it would teach anything new to him anyway.

You... really don't have a point here. Count Dooku is not Palpatine, did not have Palpatine's resources, and was rigidly controlled by his master. The fact that he has Darth Andeddu's holocron and knows some manner of Sith knowledge is absolutely irrelevant to this conversation.

So, you are basicly saying that Sidious became very powerful between Rots and Rotj, which once again brings my first topic. However, it seemed to me that you were implying that Sidious became tremendously powerful between Rotj and DE since you said "Mastery of such a great range of techniques obviously makes him much more powerful than his last [B]incarnation.". [/B]

Palpatine ruled the galaxy for two decades. That is when he spent his time immersed in Force knowledge. After his death at Endor, he spent years rebuilding his strength (personal and militarily) for his attack on the New Republic.

This is the ultimate point: despite the fact that Palpatine had "incredible Force knowledge" prior to becoming Emperor, when he did become Emperor, that knowledge increased by an order of several magnitudes. He was free to scour the worlds of the entire galaxy, since he practically owned them. He was also free to do it without having to avoid detection, since there was no power greater than he, politically or Force-wise. He had a small army of dark side acolytes and limitless Imperial resources by which to collect this information.

the Dark Empire Sourcebook confirms that he mastered a truly unbelievable scope of knowledge, which is corroborated by other sources. Mastery of a wide range of techniques means one's knowledge of the Force is deeper and one has many more powers to utilize in combat.

Palpatine has mastered the Force to an extent far greater than anyone we've seen in the mythos. It's not up for debate.

Pwned

It's not open for debate?

If I recall correctly he was shot to death and his spirit was dragged into the netherworld. A strange way to day for the master of the galaxy.

He was powerful. Indeed. But he wasn't the most powerful. I think he shared the top tier with the likes of Yoda, Skywalker/Vader, Dooku, Windu and others.

For someone whose primary attack is lecturing others on reading comprehension, Janus, I expected much better:

"With the resources of a galaxy at his disposal, [Palpatine] gathered the greatest works of knowledge from over a million worlds. He studied the Force in all its guises throughout the galaxy, whether it was the shamanism of Jarvashqiine or the tales of the Tyia. Coupled with perversions of the secrets he ripped from the living minds of Jedi he captured during the Purge, he learned more than he ever
expected."

-- the Dark Empire Sourcebook, page 68.

You still haven't answered the question:

How is Sidious finding the time to both acquire this information, study it, master it, and implement it? How could he even find the time to travel to millions of planets? Even to send one of his most trusted scouts to millions of planets specifically looking for worthy Force lore is a stretch. This kind of loose hyperbole should be substantiated, not accepted on blind faith.

Right. And it's impossible and implausible for three million clones to fight a three year, galactic-level war against a quadrillion battle droids.

But hey, it happened. It's still canon. Get over it.

Right, literalism.

I love literalism. You're not a religious guy, are you, Gideon?

Exodus 21:7 (New International Version)

7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do.

^ Hey, taken literally this means my daughter can be sold into slavery where she has less rights then male slaves!

Jeez, I'm glad I work Monday through Friday now:

Exodus 35:2 (New International Version)

2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.

^ I'd hate to be put to death by literal people.

And I hope you don't groom yourself either:

Leviticus 19:27 (New International Version)

27 " 'Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard

After all, a blind faith in the source is the only way to live, right?

Leviticus 11:10 (New International Version)

10 But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales—whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water—you are to detest.

Hey look - God hates stingrays!

So yeah, tl;dr version? Being literal is for fundies and people who can't think for themselves. Learn to evaluate evidence, not just accept it if and only if it supports your bias, Escape.

Originally posted by RaidenDeadpool
It's not open for debate?

If I recall correctly he was shot to death and his spirit was dragged into the netherworld. A strange way to day for the master of the galaxy.

He was powerful. Indeed. But he wasn't the most powerful. I think he shared the top tier with the likes of Yoda, Skywalker/Vader, Dooku, Windu and others.

EDIT: I meant ~DIE~. Lol I wasn't paying attention.. =/

That's what happens when you try to prove a point using the King James Bible.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
That's what happens when you try to prove a point using the King James Bible.

Was that directed at me?? If yes, we can trade pleasantries again.. 😂

No, that was towards Janus

Janus is my hero for today.