Thor/Beta ray bill vs Surfer/Superman

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You think the Surfer can't take planet busting hits?? He's one of the most durable characters in the MU. >_<

Besides, Supes and SS trumps Thor and BRB in speed, so once they've realized that this would be a tough fight, Supes gets on the board and Surfer just accelerates to top speed (leaving Thor and BRB in the dust) to allow SS to amp Supes while Thor and BRB attempt to keep up.

Also, I see a lot of people arguing that SS's cosmic awareness helps find weaknesses but now it can't ascertain strengths?

HMMM, so you think that surfer could just outright leave them in the dust since beta was just plain out flying across the universe like it was nothing.

You also think that supes and surfer is just outright more faster than them even though thor and bill has some amazing reaction speed.

You do know that if they leave the battle field that counts as bfring and again, show me surfer or supes taking planet destroying hits without going down because they have been dropped by much less and thats what bill is going to start the fight out with, planet busting hits.

Do you know who tanaraq is, just read up on what a none holding back bill did to him. I can post it if you want.

Originally posted by carver9
Magic has impacted almost everyone that you named. Supes isnt weak against it, magic is just a plot device power that impact EVERYONE. Wolverine has one of the best healing factor in comics but got turned into a werewolf due to magic. Hulk was disintegrated to nothing but bones due to magic. Thor was turned into a frog due to magic and lets not bring up everything loki has done to him.

Its not a vulnerability to supes, it mentally gets to him but he has as much resistance to it as almost anyone in dc and marvel, NONE.

Supes would be affected moreso with a magical based attack than your normal brick with high durability. Just about everyone can be turned to something via magical spell. Its kinda like hes allergic, so its stinks a bit more for him.

Originally posted by jrodslam
And youre saying that every hit is going to be a planet destroying hit? If thats the case, i may as well say team use will just use their superior speed to dodge every single "planet destroying hit". Neither of the two is gonna happen. Dont make it seem otheriwse.

Not from thor, no, but from bill I'm pretty sure its going to be a outright trying to kill fight.

I agree, supes and surfer have a speed edge but I dont think its enough to make a difference in this fight. Thats the reason I included supes, due to his speed edge because he sure as hell isnt as powerful as the 3 in this battle but his speed changes that, make it a different kind of fight.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Supes would be affected moreso with a magical based attack than your normal brick with high durability. Just about everyone can be turned to something via magical spell. Its kinda like hes allergic, so its stinks a bit more for him.

I just disagree with this, just my opinion though. I dont think hes weak to it, his durability against it isnt any different than anyone else. Its a plot device power.

^ His vulnerability to magic is well-documented. And despite various claims over the years that Superman has received upgrades or isn't so weak to it anymore, he remains vulnerable to it and it continues to be well-documented.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Nobody needs any kind of amping. Team 2 will just straight-up kick their asses.

Thor can also bfr Superman at any point.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ His vulnerability to magic is well-documented. And despite various claims over the years that Superman has received upgrades or isn't so weak to it anymore, he remains vulnerable to it and it continues to be well-documented.

You do know why its documented that he is weak to magic right? I'm thinking that its documented so that it wouldnt appears as if supes is just completely invulnerable.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ His vulnerability to magic is well-documented. And despite various claims over the years that Superman has received upgrades or isn't so weak to it anymore, he remains vulnerable to it and it continues to be well-documented.

👆

He's weak to it in the sense that it affects him worse than typical energy/blunt force attacks do, even if they would be at the 'same level' of damage.

Originally posted by carver9
Thats the point that I"m trying to make, supes doesnt need an amp for this fight and if so what was his best showing while he was amped.

his only really true amped showing is Our Worlds At War.

Why do you think that supes is more powerful than beta and thor? Thor showings against more powerful beings is a lot more impressive and just outright more powerful than supes. Without speed supes would get crushed against thor, speed is the only reason I give supes a chance against him.

that's your opinion. mine is different.

Supes beinig stronger, thats very, very arguable. There hasnt been any on panel showing or nothing thor has failed to lift that make me believe he is weaker than supes.

and superman has?

Power output, this isnt even a debate.

Versatility, thor has this in spades.

Better fighter, thor has this also.

Durable, supes is more durable against sharpnel than thor but blunt force trama, I think thor has him beat.

Beta has every ability that thor has, beta just doesnt hold back, he goes for the kill which would be bad for either supes or surfer imo

then we disagree about yet more things.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Nobody needs any kind of amping. Team 2 will just straight-up kick their asses.

aye.

Originally posted by Philosophía
👆

He's weak to it in the sense that it affects him worse than typical energy/blunt force attacks do, even if they would be at the 'same level' of damage.

This is what I'm saying, one dumb isnt saying this though, he's saying that its an actual weakness whereas the magic would have an affect on supes about the same as it would have on anyone else.

Originally posted by carver9
Another bad example; when has magic EVER had any kind of affect on gladiator.

How 'bout just two weeks ago, in War of Kings: Warriors - Gladiator #1?

Regardless...Team One wins.

Originally posted by Raoul
his only really true amped showing is Our Worlds At War.

that's your opinion. mine is different.

and superman has?

then we disagree about yet more things.

aye.

Our worlds at war isnt proving much to me about how supes tangles with top tier. I think a lot of people blew that showing out of context anyway.

Im not going to down your opinion either because thats what debating is about, opinions.

Nope, superman hasnt but thor hasnt either so you cant say one is stronger than the other without some kind of proof.

I think we will always disagree, I hope that change one day though. I hope you admit one day that I'm always right. 😉

Originally posted by Enyalus
How 'bout just two weeks ago, in War of Kings: Warriors - Gladiator #1?

Regardless...Team One wins.

The psy blast? 😕

Originally posted by carver9
The psy blast? 😕

I'm talking about a magician tossing a magical bolt at him while Gladiator was younger.

Originally posted by carver9
Our worlds at war isnt proving much to me about how supes tangles with top tier. I think a lot of people blew that showing out of context anyway.

Im not going to down your opinion either because thats what debating is about, opinions.

Nope, superman hasnt but thor hasnt either so you cant say one is stronger than the other without some kind of proof.

I think we will always disagree, I hope that change one day though. I hope you admit one day that I'm always right. 😉

i think people who try to downplay owaw are just trying to make Superman look bad.

from what i've seen of both men, Superman looks stronger to me.

if you make any statements that happen to be true, i'll support em... 😉

Originally posted by carver9
HMMM, so you think that surfer could just outright leave them in the dust since beta was just plain out flying across the universe like it was nothing.

Surfer is faster. But if you have proof otherwise, show me BRB's fastest speed feat. When they start traversing light years in seconds (aka over a million times FTL) then I'll believe you.

Originally posted by carver9
You also think that supes and surfer is just outright more faster than them even though thor and bill has some amazing reaction speed.

They do, but they're not equal to Surfer's nanosecond reaction speed. But that's not even the point here. Thing is they can easily fly rings around these two to buy themselves time.

Originally posted by carver9
You do know that if they leave the battle field that counts as bfring and again, show me surfer or supes taking planet destroying hits without going down because they have been dropped by much less and thats what bill is going to start the fight out with, planet busting hits.

Outmaneuvering someone does not count as BFR as long as they still plan on coming back to fight. :-/

Originally posted by carver9
Do you know who tanaraq is, just read up on what a none holding back bill did to him. I can post it if you want.

So what are you saying? You saying BRB and Thor's gonna one shot Surfer or Supes? Cuz I'm not sure what you're getting at about the whole "planet busting hitting power" business.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Nope...You're talking about Rachel?

I'm talking about a magician tossing a magical bolt at him while Gladiator was younger.

You do know that gladiator powers is psy (dont know if I spelled that right) in nature so was he as developed in his powers as he is today. His powers is based on his mind, thats why in reeds and professor files it states that he can do anything if he put his mind to it. I'm pretty sure with that said his mind wasnt as stable as it is today (basically not knowing what he's capable of) as he was when he was a child. His durability might wasnt even COMPARED to what it is today. Do you have the scan of that?

Originally posted by carver9
Power output, this isnt even a debate.

Versatility, thor has this in spades.

Durable, supes is more durable against sharpnel than thor but blunt force trama, I think thor has him beat.

Raoul: The above shouldn't even be in question. Thor's better in each area, and its clear.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Surfer is faster. But if you have proof otherwise, show me BRB's fastest speed feat. When they start traversing light years in seconds (aka over a million times FTL) then I'll believe you.

They do, but they're not equal to Surfer's nanosecond reaction speed. But that's not even the point here. Thing is they can easily fly rings around these two to buy themselves time.

Outmaneuvering someone does not count as BFR as long as they still plan on coming back to fight. :-/

So what are you saying? You saying BRB and Thor's gonna one shot Surfer or Supes? Cuz I'm not sure what you're getting at about the whole "planet busting hitting power" business.

Thor has flown across the universe MULTIPLE of times along with beta ray bill. I dont think flying speed has anything to do with this and again if they leave the battle field that is a bfr.

Surfer is fast as hell, he's the fastest on the field but again speed isnt whats deciding this battle because surfer WILL get hit.

I'm not saying one shot but I'm saying one of those hits would do some damage since there isnt any on panel proof showing that they could handle anything CLOSE to that kind of power (physically).

Originally posted by Enyalus
Raoul: The above shouldn't even be in question. Thor's better in each area, and its clear.

Plain and clear