Originally posted by snoopdogg
If you wanna use handbooks I say use them. If you don't want to use them do it also.
Of course.
Nothing wrong with handbooks or any other secondary source as long as they don't flat out contradict what has been shown on panel.
Don't see what your comments about 'suiting my own needs' had to do with anything though.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
How can it be superhuman if man kind can reach it. Superhuman is outside of human limitations. Your answer by blah blah blah shows you had no clue what Operation Rebirth did as your ignorance shows on the character Captain America himself. But thats OK hopefully you are informed now. Cap is not superhuman.The fact that you try to make Elektra be something thats she's not tells the type of fan you are. he he he but thats ok too. 🙂 we are all fanboys at times.
Yeah but that means that alot of superheroes arent superhuman. The defintion of superhuman ( in marvel) is also really the same as peak human. The term is really meaningless.
Originally posted by Daredevil1That's just the whole point. 😱
How can it be superhuman if man kind can reach it.
His feets outstrip those of his supposed peers and you want to equate them because the gap isn't enormous.
Mankind can't reach Steve, it's a simple fact. Goober brought up a good point in multiple people who are comparible to Batman not being Caps equal on a physical level, because it demonstrates his superiority over other "peak humans". We're not talking about joe shmoe off the street here, we're discussing people who are extremely talented and gifted individuals who have been training their whole life and REACHED those physical limits, having limitations under those of Cap or high end feats STILL under those of Cap. Batman's a poster boy for this as he's trained his entire life to reach the pinacle of his ability, and physically there's still a gap that seperates him and Steve..... So I fail to see how you can then draw yourself to the conclusion that Captain America is "just human"..... he's not stated to be, he's not limited to be, and everything that he does is strictly opposing this ideal. If no one else is his physical equal without superpowers of some sort.... then Cap is SUPERHUMAN.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Superhuman is outside of human limitations. Your answer by blah blah blah shows you had no clue what Operation Rebirth did as your ignorance shows on the character Captain America himself. But thats OK hopefully you are informed now. Cap is not superhuman.
My answer of "blah blah blah" had absolutely nothing to do with Operation Rebirth and everything to do with your nonsensical rationale that Cap is superhuman by human standards but not by Marvel standards... You said it about half a dozen times and each time you said it didn't make it any less incorrect because the fact of the matter is that Marvel HAS addressed Cap as enhanced and as super, and as superhuman... You can not get around this.
And as for ignorance? 😂
You're flat out ignoring that Cap's stated to be ENHANCED and SUPERHUMAN, in spite of knowing full well that he has... can't get much more ig'nant than that. 😉
Originally posted by Daredevil1
The fact that you try to make Elektra be something thats she's not tells the type of fan you are. he he he but thats ok too. 🙂 we are all fanboys at times.
Oh wow.. and here I thought the discussion had moved on to Cap.... 😐
Now I understand you feel you're backed into a corner taking on a position that's completely reliant on semantics at this point so I'll empathize with you wanting to throw out the diversionary tactics.... but fanboy? Really.....?
Okay, DAREDEVIL1.... I understand that you're pro-Daredevil agenda necessitates you to already be at odds with Elektra DAREDEVIL1, but how am making Elektra to be something she isn't?
I said she was superhuman across the board.
And, she is:
She has superhuman speed and accuracy.
Superhuman durability.
Chi manipulation.
Superhumanly accute senses.
and she's a telepath....
I already said her strength was entirely up for debate.... and while you can disagree with me; when I see Elektra casually punching through brick walls, steel doors, casually throwing people through the air multitudes of feet, punching through bullet proof armor while drugged, wounded, malnurished and tasered, slicing through the most durable material SHIELD could make with one stroke, taking off limbs with blunt objects, tossing Wolverine and Mac to both sides of her with a casual slap, breaking chains with no leverage, able to deflect bullets with her fist the collision of which didn't budge her hand in the slightest but sent the bullet ricocheting away instead, moving too fast to be seen underwater without leverage, parrying and tossing back Silver Samurai, forcing Wolverine's arms to fold in trying to parry her, casually crushing human skulls with her grip strength, ripping pipes off the wall, moving too fast to be seen underwater and throwing sais hard enough to rip their targets from human limbs and send human flesh through two layers of kevlar and a human body inside them... what else shall I then conclude?
I understand that these feats are not enormously over-impressive for guys at DD's level (well except for a few of them which simply compelely outstrip anyone on the street level), but this girl is slender, small and tightly framed, she's not a big 200-300 pound bruiser like the boys and she's still able to perform feats of this calibure. If there was a child as strong as DD he'd most definitely be superhuman, I feel the same way about Elektra....
And while as I stated before, you CAN disagree with me, you can't do so based on the fact that you think I'm a fanboy DAREDEVIL1, only instead, in disagreement of the impressive feats she HAS performed... which you're certainly welcome to do.
Now of course all of this is a red herring since we're talking about Cap's superhumanhood which you thought didn't exist... when it clearly DOES.
Even Jinzin thinks Batman wins.
Originally posted by jinzin
he's held up a 1,000 pound ceiling struture above his head (shoulder press fasion) before...he's been seen bench pressing (over ten reps) over 600 pounds on a few occasions...
funny though in one arch he couldn't dead lift 650.
other feats of strength include him: kicking down a steel door, uprooting a metal pipe, punching a man through a brick wall giving him internal damage...and this...
Originally posted by jinzin
well batman can put himself into a ninja trance that increases his adrenaline and strength while negating his pain receptors and such... he can only do it for a limited amount of time 5-8 minutes... but he can do it.... and you don't have to look like arnold to be strong... I was one of the smallest guys in my lifting class and I lifted twice as much as some ofthe guys that were 3 times my size... it's all about how you train..and we all know batman knows how to do that.
biscuits
Originally posted by Enyalus
On the DC scale Batman's listed as a lvl 12.So your attempted comparison kind of falls apart...
no not really seeing as how batman mostly relies on fear to get the edge on his enemies.
besides cap and wolverine have decades and logan one century worth of fighting skills knowledge lets translate that to a DC scale where would that put him along bats? one of them has bn taught by aliens, gods demons ect ect.. and knows most of earth martial arts along with weapon usage.
Batman wins.
That's just the whole point. eek!
Everything Cap does is clearly outside the scope of human capability and yet you've deemed him nothing more than a human.. It's insulting.His feets outstrip those of his supposed peers and you want to equate them because the gap isn't enormous.
Mankind can't reach Steve, it's a simple fact. Goober brought up a good point in multiple people who are comparible to Batman not being Caps equal on a physical level, because it demonstrates his superiority over other "peak humans". We're not talking about joe shmoe off the street here, we're discussing people who are extremely talented and gifted individuals who have been training their whole life and REACHED those physical limits, having limitations under those of Cap or high end feats STILL under those of Cap. Batman's a poster boy for this as he's trained his entire life to reach the pinacle of his ability, and physically there's still a gap that seperates him and Steve..... So I fail to see how you can then draw yourself to the conclusion that Captain America is "just human"..... he's not stated to be, he's not limited to be, and everything that he does is strictly opposing this ideal. If no one else is his physical equal without superpowers of some sort.... then Cap is SUPERHUMAN.
Look at your own quote from Ed. Even he saids the ultimate human potential. Everything Cap does is outside the scope of human ability. Find me a quote that saids that exact phrase in Marvel otherwise. Your making things up. Because Marvel saids the exact opposite that he is mankind's potential regardless of how super he is. Your right Batman is a great poster boy but is he the peak of human potential Jinzin? No. So how can he be Cap. Cap is so the comparison is illogical at best.
In marvel Cap is what a human can potentially one day be by marvel stance so he is definitley not outside the scope of human ability in Marvel.
My answer of "blah blah blah" had absolutely nothing to do with Operation Rebirth and everything to do with your nonsensical rationale that Cap is superhuman by human standards but not by Marvel standards... You said it about half a dozen times and each time you said it didn't make it any less incorrect because the fact of the matter is that Marvel HAS addressed Cap as enhanced and as super, and as superhuman... You can not get around this.And as for ignorance? laughing out loud
You're flat out ignoring that Cap's stated to be ENHANCED and SUPERHUMAN, in spite of knowing full well that he has... can't get much more ig'nant than that.
And yet he's still the peak of human potential and you don't grasp from statements of impressiveness to statements from what he is. As I explained from my last post. Heck did you even know in Cap 59 or so the SSS was also stated to be the "Super Normal formula" No I bet you didn't. He's a super person its no lie that he's superior to athletes even the best of athletes like Bruce but at the same time he's normal and not true superhuman. Marvel stance is >>>>then your stance. No matter how much you complain.
Oh wow.. and here I thought the discussion had moved on to Cap.... no expressionNow I understand you feel you're backed into a corner taking on a position that's completely reliant on semantics at this point so I'll empathize with you wanting to throw out the diversionary tactics.... but fanboy? Really.....?
Okay, DAREDEVIL1.... I understand that you're pro-Daredevil agenda necessitates you to already be at odds with Elektra DAREDEVIL1, but how am making Elektra to be something she isn't?
I said she was superhuman across the board.
And, she is:
She has superhuman speed and accuracy.
Superhuman durability.
Chi manipulation.
Superhumanly accute senses.
and she's a telepath....I already said her strength was entirely up for debate.... and while you can disagree with me; when I see Elektra casually punching through brick walls, steel doors, casually throwing people through the air multitudes of feet, punching through bullet proof armor while drugged, wounded, malnurished and tasered, slicing through the most durable material SHIELD could make with one stroke, taking off limbs with blunt objects, tossing Wolverine and Mac to both sides of her with a casual slap, breaking chains with no leverage, able to deflect bullets with her fist the collision of which didn't budge her hand in the slightest but sent the bullet ricocheting away instead, moving too fast to be seen underwater without leverage, parrying and tossing back Silver Samurai, forcing Wolverine's arms to fold in trying to parry her, casually crushing human skulls with her grip strength, ripping pipes off the wall, moving too fast to be seen underwater and throwing sais hard enough to rip their targets from human limbs and send human flesh through two layers of kevlar and a human body inside them... what else shall I then conclude?
I understand that these feats are not enormously over-impressive for guys at DD's level (well except for a few of them which simply compelely outstrip anyone on the street level), but this girl is slender, small and tightly framed, she's not a big 200-300 pound bruiser like the boys and she's still able to perform feats of this calibure. If there was a child as strong as DD he'd most definitely be superhuman, I feel the same way about Elektra....
And while as I stated before, you CAN disagree with me, you can't do so based on the fact that you think I'm a fanboy DAREDEVIL1, only instead, in disagreement of the impressive feats she HAS performed... which you're certainly welcome to do.
Now of course all of this is a red herring since we're talking about Cap's superhumanhood which you thought didn't exist... when it clearly DOES.
LOL I can find you feats of Punisher slugging it out with USAgent and taking worst punishment then Electra. Oh my god Jinzin Punisher has Superhuman durability........ 😆 Nope. Thats your logic. Elektra is not superhuman in strength or durability. I targeted you Elektra statements because you brought them up in this thread. Its that simple. I bet it erks you knowing Elektra isn't superhuman in strength and durability only a legend in your own mind I guess.
Even Daredevil has better strength lifting feats then her but at least I know Daredevil isn't "Superhuman". He's not even at the peak of human potential(almost Superhuman) like Cap is. And DD's one of the good poster boys for Marvel.
Originally posted by Daredevil1He also said that Cap was enhanced, and felt the need to emphasize the super part of the SSS.
Look at your own quote from Ed. Even he saids the ultimate human potential.
Originally posted by Daredevil1So Cap is what a human might be able to become "one day" huh?
Everything Cap does is outside the scope of human ability. Find me a quote that saids that exact phrase in Marvel otherwise. Your making things up. Because Marvel saids the exact opposite that he is mankind's potential regardless of how super he is. Your right Batman is a great poster boy but is he the peak of human potential Jinzin? No. So how can he be Cap. Cap is so the comparison is illogical at best.In marvel Cap is what a human can potentially one day be by marvel stance so he is definitley not outside the scope of human ability in Marvel.
Yes, exactly, so if no one can touch Cap without enhancements then everything he does is outside the scope of human ability. This shouldn't have to be spelled out for you based on some bullshit semantics or theories of human evolution. The peak of of human potential IS SUPERHUMAN if Cap's the only one who can reach it.
Until Caps feats and physical level become the status quoa you can't continue to argue otherwise.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
And yet he's still the peak of human potential and you don't grasp from statements of impressiveness to statements from what he is.
What he is? Oh you mean like "enhanced"?..... 😐
Originally posted by Daredevil1
As I explained from my last post. Heck did you even know in Cap 59 or so the SSS was also stated to be the "Super Normal formula" No I bet you didn't. He's a super person its no lie that he's superior to athletes even the best of athletes like Bruce but at the same time he's normal and not true superhuman. Marvel stance is >>>>then your stance. No matter how much you complain.
Again, you're just taking one statement you think illigitimates Cap's low level superhuman status and ignoring the rest that support it... your perogative...
And what complaining? I know full well Marvel has the final say.. which is why you look like a fool when you ignore the fact that Marvel has repeatedly given Cap a title like "enhanced", and constantly showing him doing things way above and beyond the likes of his supposed peers. 😐
Originally posted by Daredevil1Uh...no..... Punisher taking like what? 3 punches from U.S. Agent isn't even remotely on the same level as the beatings she took from the Gorgon or the Superskrulls so... fail there.
LOL I can find you feats of Punisher slugging it out with USAgent and taking worst punishment then Electra. Oh my god Jinzin Punisher has Superhuman durability........ 😆 Nope. Thats your logic. Elektra is not superhuman in strength or durability. I targeted you Elektra statements because you brought them up in this thread. Its that simple. I bet it erks you knowing Elektra isn't superhuman in strength and durability only a legend in your own mind I guess.Even Daredevil has better strength lifting feats then her but at least I know Daredevil isn't "Superhuman". He's not even at the peak of human potential(almost Superhuman) like Cap is. And DD's one of the good poster boys for Marvel.
But yes, Punisher has an unnaturally high damage soak and durability level for a sheer human that's borderline superhuman. Cap still has superior feats to this, as does Elektra so your defection is rather lousy here.
Lol I bet it erks you that Elektra continuously hands Matt his ass when they throw down. lol And, I posted several feats of explosive strength or strength contests that couldn't be any less than superhuman in scope, especially given her frame.... I gave you my argument, and all you've done thus far is give me a big "nu-uh". Both Cap and Elektra have physical feats greatly outstripping those of their peers... Both have feats at a superhuman level even for comic book humans. Cap has flat out stated to be enhanced... You want to ignore that as well.. have fun.
Originally posted by jinzinUh...no..... Punisher taking like what? 3 punches from U.S. Agent isn't even remotely on the same level as the beatings she took from the Gorgon or the Superskrulls so... fail there.
I dunno about the SS but I dont remember Elektra getting that bad of a beating and Gorgon is class 2.