Originally posted by jinzin
I honestly don't think that ABC logic to that degree can really work simply because Shang Chi isn't Batman and the two have never even had indirect comparisons that can be referenced and analyzed...
Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but that same thing pretty much holds true to Cap and Batman also(outside of crossovers that can't be referenced as evidence). I wasn't so much endorsing the logic as pointing out why having "comparable feats" isn't always enough to support two characters being equal. A lot of the time in these types of situations you have to look deeper into both characters.
I thought JLA/Avengers was supposedly canon material.
Same as Marvel Vs. DC.. Though I know the fan votes can't really have much faith put into them.
Well I would say having equivolent feats does support the two being equal.. when we're talking about generic examples of strength, speed, etc etc., but that's just it, Cap outstrips most so it really doesn't matter.
Originally posted by jinzin
I thought JLA/Avengers was supposedly canon material.Same as Marvel Vs. DC.. Though I know the fan votes can't really have much faith put into them.
Originally posted by jinzin
Well I would say having equivolent feats does support the two being equal.. when we're talking about generic examples of strength, speed, etc etc., but that's just it, Cap outstrips most so it really doesn't matter.
Originally posted by jinzin
I thought JLA/Avengers was supposedly canon material.
Originally posted by jinzin
Same as Marvel Vs. DC.. Though I know the fan votes can't really have much faith put into them.
Originally posted by darthgooberThat's fair I suppose. Again though I simply don't think it's even necessary in Cap's case as he outstrips most of them anyways and does it more often.
Most of the time I'm all for feat comparisons being used as the gauge, I'm just saying it's not universally accurate. Most people try to say "Well both Cap and Bats have both done insane things that humans shouldn't be capable of, so we'll just consider them equal". But in that particular case, guys like Daredevil and Shang should also be taken into consideration as being equal to Bats since they has comparable feats also, and Cap's regarded as their superior.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
How many people is he lifting up? edt: I saw 7 thats approx 1400lbs and he didnt just lift it he threw them. That 1400lbs excludes the weight of their weapons and armour if we added it them it could at least come to 1500lbs.
Uh Phantom Zone these links
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/...er/af-02-05.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/...er/af-02-06.jpg
are from Avengers Forever they time traveled and got Cap to help them but it was Cap that had gotten injected with Vipers poison and gave him true super human strength.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Uh Phantom Zone these links
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/...er/af-02-05.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/...er/af-02-06.jpgare from Avengers Forever they time traveled and got Cap to help them but it was Cap that had gotten injected with Vipers poison and gave him true super human strength.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Really? Are you sure? I don't know how I missed that... I guess I need to re-read that story. My bad 😮 .
Oh the irony.>>>"Caps is above peak human. These are quotes from Ed Brubaker. Thanks go to Daredevil1 for finding them.
http://www.comicboards.com/camb/vie...pl=060330214926
"Just physical exertion. While I don't think of Cap as 'super' like Spider-man or Superman, he's clearly not Batman with a shield. He's not just like a guy who works out all the time and is trained. He's been enhanced, and I wanted to show that a bit."
"See, I never understand why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff. Cap was given the Super-Soldier Serum. The first word there is SUPER. He's not superman, but clearly, he's been shown to be much faster and stronger than a well-trained athlete, many many times. One of everyone's favorite Cap appearances seems to be DD: Born Again, where he's shown running to fast that he's a breeze."
http://www.comicboards.com/camb/vie...q=ed%20brubaker
"I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically. He's not Thor or Spiderman, but he's not Batman, either." "<<<
Its no secret that Cap is above Batman in stats since Cap is the peak of human potential while Batman is not. That's all this proves. Your confusing context for what it really is. In real life the old lady who lifted a car to save her kids was also consider a superhuman feat. Does that really make her superhuman in reality compared to others no.
Cap is meant to be superior to non enhanced humans so of course titles like Super men or Super Soldier appear. Because he is superior but in the end thats still the peak of human potential. Not that hard to understand.
To a degree he didn't have before... It doesn't discredit the clear superhumanhood he had regardless. How in the world does it not make sense? What the f**k?Cap has ENHANCEMENTS. He's been described as SUPER and ENHANCED. Everything the character does is CLEARLY outside the scope of human capability but he's not "super" because he's human?
Yeah THAT'S what doesn't make sense.. Is how you can know who Cap is, what he's done and still draw yourself to the conclusion that he's mere human, peak or not.
But it does thats why he has been also called almost superhuman. He's super compared to us but still not true superhuman by Marvels standards since there as so many upper classes. By your logic Nightwing is super in real life stats but not in DC.
Well for 1) You have no idea WHAT the peak of human "potential" would indicate and what limitations it would imply... and 2) If Cap IS only the peak of human potential.. then the peak of human "potential" is CLEARLY SUPERHUMAN.
Its super compared to us yes. That I agree with but its not true superhuman by marvels stance. Since he is the potential for humanity one day humanity will reach that level thus its not true superhuman. True superhuman is consider outside the limitations of man while the peak of human potential is "not" thus not true superhuman by Marvel stance. And that is the distinction that you don't seem to grasp.
This is a contradictory statement that immediately discredits itself and No.. he's not a "pure human" hence his enhancements and resistance to fatigue due to the SSS.
I never said he wasn't enhanced. The SSS didn't change his Human make up if you read Operation Rebirth you would know this. No X-gene or no radiation bite. Do you even know what the SSS even did? He is a pure man evolved too witness a man from the coming decades. But still a man no less.
According to whom? Because if your basing this ridiculous argument off of Marvel's label, then you need to recognize that they've also labeled him as enhanced and superhuman as well.
According to marvel. Yes I do recognize his other labels thats how far superior he is to a regular man. But since Cap is the peak of human potential he will never be true superhuman, since in the marvel verse humanity can potentially reach that level in time. Not now but one day in the far far future. This just means that Mans potential is strong in marvel.
Originally posted by Enyalus
All I remembered was he was taken right after the Kree/Skrull War, when he was disillusioned with the government and very depressed. Didn't know it was at that time that he got the Viper's poison.
Yup. Cap then became Nomad for a while IIRC. He did indeed had true superstrength and once it was gone Cap noted he wished he had superhuman strength because he never had true blue superhuman strength. Only the maximum level of human potential.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Yup. Cap then became Nomad for a while IIRC. He did indeed had true superstrength and once it was gone Cap noted he wished he had superhuman strength because he never had true blue superhuman strength. Only the maximum level of human potential.
Originally posted by jalek moye
yea running 60mph hour without tiring at all, is way above human capability.and he always did things thet were humanly impossible
Maybe in real life but in Marvel human potential is strong then. If you think thats something you should see humans in the DBZ verse there potential is even crazier regular humans can blow up the friggin Moon. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay above human capability. Marvel's human potential can't touch that. This isn't real life now.
Humans have lifted 1100 lbs with one arm while under duress before. Saw something about a hiker falling and getting pinned under a boulder weighing that much. He lifted it off with one arm in order to save himself.
And I remember a case about 10 years ago where a grandmother (like, 60+ years old) who was high on PCP lifted up the whole front of a car...
"Peak" human is pretty uber. 🙂
Originally posted by Battlehammer
are you sure becuase I am pretty sure it from right after enhancement left him and he still retain some of his super strength
I'm pretty sure other wise I wouldn't use that feat myself.
When he had true superhuman strength he didn't really have that many strength feats that I remember but some off the top of my head.
:Ripping a tire from a car.
:Lifting up the head of the statue of liberty.
:taking a hit from a metal like batt and not feeling it.
:And some from Avengers Forever like lifting lots of people.
The other feats were not that impressive in fact they were like breaking down steel doors and breaking chains which he easily does with the SSS.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
I'm pretty sure other wise I wouldn't use that feat myself.When he had true superhuman strength he didn't really have that many strength feats that I remember but some off the top of my head.
:Ripping a tire from a car.
:Lifting up the head of the statue of liberty.
:taking a hit from a metal like batt and not feeling it.
:And some from Avengers Forever like lifting lots of people.The other feats were not that impressive in fact they were like breaking down steel doors and breaking chains which he easily does with the SSS.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
I think he was though, around when it was waring off. I take a look through my cd rom later and see.
