Wolverine vs Batman vs Captain america H2H ONLY

Originally posted by Enyalus
Except it was in a H2H fight where he was clocked like that. And yes, all of them have those bullet dodging and other insane feats. But this was a hard example with actual numbers, indicating that Wolverine operates at a superhuman level of reaction speeds, when he wants to. If he wanted to in this fight, I see no reason why he would not. And Batman and Cap cannot match that, because they're peak human. He's simply physically above them by a small margin. Because the skill is probably a toss up, I think that would give Logan a serious advantage.

Thing is, it's 1 feat of 38ms, in 2 decades of non-38ms feats. I mean sure you CAN use it, but then is there anyway to account for him ever being hit? You said he could use it when he wants to..well then you're implying he would rather get hit, then use it becauae he does get hit, all the time.

And really, there's a word for a miraculous 1 time event, never replicated never duplicated in a given time frame - like say - an entire career. Luck.

actually wolverine has stated numerous times that he does prefer to takes hits in most situations when fighting..

he has also shown the ability not to take hits in over whelming odds when his HF is on the fritz

Originally posted by Juk3n
Thing is, it's 1 feat of 38ms, in 2 decades of non-38ms feats. I mean sure you CAN use it, but then is there anyway to account for him ever being hit? You said he could use it when he wants to..well then you're implying he would rather get hit, then use it becauae he does get hit, all the time.

And really, there's a word for a miraculous 1 time event, never replicated never duplicated in a given time frame - like say - an entire career. Luck.

Captain America wins.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Thing is, it's 1 feat of 38ms, in 2 decades of non-38ms feats. I mean sure you CAN use it, but then is there anyway to account for him ever being hit? You said he could use it when he wants to..well then you're implying he would rather get hit, then use it becauae he does get hit, all the time.

And really, there's a word for a miraculous 1 time event, never replicated never duplicated in a given time frame - like say - an entire career. Luck.

also he has several other feats and statements to validate that event.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
Actaully He stated before he lets him, self get hit. He has a healing factor he has no reason to dodge. So by you assume him getting hit means he reaction time is not that fast is simply wrong.

also he has several other feats and statements to validate that event.

No doubt, but then when people like Elektra "toy with him" makes me think otherwise. And as for letting himself get hit, sure i don't doubt that, afterall, he has an insane healing factor, but he has also let himself get hit by people who could KO him/incapacitate/badly damage him, in life or death fights which if we go by the 38ms standard is either PIS or bad writing, like his various ones with Sabretooth. Where was his 38ms feat then?

Look im straying from the point, in his various fights with other well trained/master/accomplished/enhanced human fighters, he rarely demonstrates the ability to completely dominate them skill/ma ability/speed/reaction wise and so on. I'm not talking about well trained /enhanced cannon fodder like the hand, im talking about NAMED top tiers, like Elektra/Cap/Tooth/Blade/DP/Cable etc. He may HAVE higher stats, but HAVING the ability to do somthing and consistantly DOING it is 2 different things. But where the healing factor helped him in those scenerios , it won't here. Im not out to boil anyones piss, and im not a wolverine hater by any means but, like all the combatants here, they each have there high and low feats, and i still say at the happy median range they are way comparable for there to be a clear cut winner.

Originally posted by Enyalus
...Not really. I mean, Wolverine's invaded The Hand's headquarters and taken on hundreds of ninjas simultaneously without them landing a blow on him.

At one point at least he used one of them as a shield and used a sentinel. Hes been hit by fewer hand ninjas before anyway.

Originally posted by Juk3n
No doubt, but then when people like Elektra "toy with him" makes me think otherwise. And as for letting himself get hit, sure i don't doubt that, afterall, he has an insane healing factor, but he has also let himself get hit by people who could KO him/incapacitate/badly damage him, in life or death fights which if we go by the 38ms standard is either PIS or bad writing, like his various ones with Sabretooth. Where was his 38ms feat then?

Look im straying from the point, in his various fights with other well trained/master/accomplished/enhanced human fighters, he rarely demonstrates the ability to completely dominate them skill/ma ability/speed/reaction wise and so on. I'm not talking about well trained /enhanced cannon fodder like the hand, im talking about NAMED top tiers, like Elektra/Cap/Tooth/Blade/DP/Cable etc. He may HAVE higher stats, but HAVING the ability to do somthing and consistantly DOING it is 2 different things. But where the healing factor helped him in those scenerios , it won't here. Im not out to boil anyones piss, and im not a wolverine hater by any means but, like all the combatants here, they each have there high and low feats, and i still say at the happy median range they are way comparable for there to be a clear cut winner.

if you simply use their mid range feats that can be compared to ea of the characters of course it looks even, but thats not a fair assessment for any of the characters. saying they are evenly match because u found feats that can be compared to all three is ludacris, with that type of logic you can find high low meta humans and say they are evenly equal to street lvler because you decided to use only feats that the other characters have performed that matches the others. the simple truth is you take each character at their best regardless if they rarely show the skill every few yrs for whatever reason.you dont pick and choose and say because he rarely does it, it doesnt count. even though if he did use his full skills he would win, saying its not part of his CIS just sounds like downgrading the character..

even in comic tournaments logan has taken such matters very seriously and operated at superhuman lvls with his enemies in speed, indurance reflex agility but somehow it doesnt count? because he doesnt perform at his peak with random every day fodder in his story telling.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow

even in comic tournaments logan has taken such matters very seriously and operated at superhuman lvls with his enemies in speed, indurance reflex agility but somehow it doesnt count? because he doesnt perform at his peak with random every day fodder in his story telling.

Im just saying i tend to disregard the feats that are not portrayed as the norm. I know he's done them, thats fine, but Ironfist has derailed and exploded a train with a blow, does he hit every opponent with that kind of force? Is it a viable feat to use in a h2h scenerio like this thread presents? if it was there would never be any need for another Ironfist thread, because "he wud just hit dem wit a train exploding strke ftw!!!" would be everywhere.

Likewise with Logans high-end feats, sure he has them , they are documented, but then why get toyed with by Elektra? Why not completley dominate Sabretooth? Why risk a shot in the ear or up the nose if he can react in 38 ms? Why? Because it's not the NORM for him to react like that.

And the way he is depicted from the MAJORITY of his MA encounters (with other top tiers like Elektra/Cable) tells me personally, that he would not be a clear cut winner in this thread.

Not to mention this thread does say PURE H2H SKILL. i think the OP would agree that for the sake of argument we put all the combatants in 3 equal bodies. which is also why i say there is no clear cut king, and why the winner would come down to your favourite person.

okay this is about hand movement right? so if you check his respect thread logan by the way you see multiple scans of logan catching knives, blocking rocket darts while waving a clawed hand back in fourth anh hitting each individual one, doing multiple hand movement in front of him and slicing and blocking a small army of ppl shooting arrows at him. by the by his jacket was torn by the time it was done i presume by the speed he was displaying oh also he has blocked and sliced multiple fledgets from archangels wings while in mid flight. during the time he was of the avengers logan was standing still and had after images of his hands slicing all around him and killling a group of ninjas that was trying to attack him, also in that scan it was logan who was dealing with the most ninjas at once alone with the least amount of effort/problem while everyone else was having a harder time with just a couple or few opponents like spidey and spiderwomen...also logan has cut gun barrels multiple times without him being scene or his hands appearing to move. 😛

Originally posted by Juk3n
@ the 38 ms feat, this would be an example of an extreme high-end reaction time feat, it's not depicted as the norm. Im not doubting he's got superhuman reactions, no doubt he has, but in terms of having that reaction in a h2h fight (which is clearly not present in any fight he's ever had with anyone who has ever struck him YET not been as fast as 38ms) these guys are comparable. They've all dodged bullets/lazah fya/punches/kicks/heat vision/sniper shots, and yet been hit by big lumbering bohemoths like the tree trunk arm of Hulk for example.

Is say this all comes down to personal pref' trying to prove - feat wise - one above another isn't likely.

Yup Cap can run a mile a minute. If Logan was that fast he would have trouble slashing constantly guys like Ironfist and Daredevil but he does. Def a good high end feat for Logan.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
okay this is about hand movement right? so if you check his respect thread logan by the way you see multiple scans of logan catching knives, blocking rocket darts while waving a clawed hand back in fourth anh hitting each individual one, doing multiple hand movement in front of him and slicing and blocking a small army of ppl shooting arrows at him. by the by his jacket was torn by the time it was done i presume by the speed he was displaying oh also he has blocked and sliced multiple fledgets from archangels wings while in mid flight. during the time he was of the avengers logan was standing still and had after images of his hands slicing all around him and killling a group of ninjas that was trying to attack him, also in that scan it was logan who was dealing with the most ninjas at once alone with the least amount of effort/problem while everyone else was having a harder time with just a couple or few opponents like spidey and spiderwomen...also logan has cut gun barrels multiple times without him being scene or his hands appearing to move. 😛

And do you know how many confrontations Batman has had where he's been to quick to defend against, where the enemy "never saw him coming" deflecting bullets? Come on these are 3 of comic books top action figures, Bats has also deflected gunfire/dodged/evaded. Cap has comparable feats also.. im talking about Logan giving the same displays against another TOP tier martial artist. Not a load of fodder ninjas.

okay fine.. he easily outfought shang chi lickity split..he has used extreme hand movements against ladydeathstrike in their down and dirty slash and gash battles, she is confirmed with enhanced speed reflex that are suppose to be above wolvie due to all her multiple upgrades specifically to beat logan.

when logan has stayed calmed he has managed to parry block and kick sabe who also has enhanced reflex speed confirmed by psylocke when she witnessed one of their fights and they were blurs and she couldnt get a mental lock on them..

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
okay fine.. he easily outfought shang chi lickity split

That's in one of there encounters. In the other Shang was holding Logan's leg off that building or whatever it was and had the advantage.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
That's in one of there encounters. In the other Shang was holding Logan's leg off that building or whatever it was and had the advantage.

sigh.........yes i know.

but logan didnt go their to fight him but get his focus back... you really think that shang chi is a remote threat to logan in h2h combat? besides logan lost his balance no biggy..

Originally posted by Juk3n
I'm not talking about well trained /enhanced cannon fodder like the hand, im talking about NAMED top tiers, like Elektra/Cap/Tooth/Blade/DP/Cable etc. He may HAVE higher stats, but HAVING the ability to do somthing and consistantly DOING it is 2 different things.

And who says him not doing this on a constant basis comes from lack of ability?

The fact is, when Wolverine's forced into using his skill he does so beyond a state of admirably.

I fail to see what you think Elektra brings to this thread as she's grossly superhuman in all aspects including her mind.

Cap doesn't support any argument as each time Wolverine has faced Cap he's either been 1. Holding back or 2. Comprimised on some level.

Sabretooth is extremely skilled and has played the part of a fool for years just to trick everyone around him... beyond that he's FAR more superhuman than anyone else on that list in terms of sheer physicality, beyond that he's able to manipulate Wolverine's emotions through his use of mindgames.. It's one of the points that was made when Logan went to deal with Creed level headed outfought him and tossed his ass off a cliff.

DP is regularly disarmed or put to a disadvantage by Wolverine in h2h combat.

And Cable has been stated to have multiple files on Wolverine from which to study and that he knows Wolverine's movements so well he can blah blah blah.. you get the point...

Now when it comes to skilled and namer opponents:

Wolverine's had mass impressive performances against the likes of Lazaer, Himself, Shingen, Daredevil, Shang Chi, Psylocke, Ogun, Punisher, Shatterstar, Stick, Silver Samurai, Winter Soldier, Gambit, Kane, Deathstrike, X-23, Nightcrawler, Domina and I can keep going..... It's not as if Wolverine able to outfight people with great fighting skill is anything new, and that's inclusive of people from every KMC tier.

When it comes to his speed and reaction times there should be no question that his movements are grossly superhuman as well given his in fight encounters.

Multiple fights with prime sentinals who blitzed X-men members and moved too fast Cyclops couldn't even track.
Taking down multiple werewolves who were moving too fast for Vindicator to deal with.
Blitzing a small group of X-force members before they could mount a defense.
Taking out multiple machines which had to increase size and speed to fight Logan in Snikt.
Rushing past and breaking to a head start before multiple superhumans could react in the new Weapon X book.
Putting Deathstrike in defensive fights who keeps upgrading speed for Logan.
Doing acrobatics behind Speed Demon's sprints without losing ground.
Causing Spiderman to doubt his own speed against Logan's.

And once again I could keep going....

I feel that there's a couple issues here.. the first is with Logan.. as he's always in a state of fighting his own nature, there's no telling how much of himself he holds back. The most recent issue of Origins shows Wolverine willing himself to give in to the animal making him run faster and faster as a result. It may be possible that Wovlerine simply tries to reserve himself, and as a result thinks too much.. It's something he's been accused of in combat before by other skilled fighters and coincidently his best feats of skill come from when he isn't thinking about the fight.

When it comes to his speed, it plays up or down based on who he's fighting as does anyone's in comics.. you guys act like Cap's never had problems with Crossbones or Batman's never got the drop on him by Joker. Which brings me to issue number two...

I think the thing that's bothersome here is that people recognize what character's typical performance levels entail, yet when you have a Batman thread or an Iron Fist thread, batkicks and trainwreckers get legitimately thrown into the debate and typical performance gets tossed to the forewind which makes us assess the characters from very high points in their career for the purpose of a fight. Yet, when it's Wolverine who's involved.. all the sudded we're forced to forget half of his career?

It seems a bit self serving to argue this way IMO.

you tell them mean kmc members.. 🙂

"you tell that mean ocean!!!!!!"

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
sigh.........yes i know.

but logan didnt go their to fight him but get his focus back... you really think that shang chi is a remote threat to logan in h2h combat? besides logan lost his balance no biggy..

Excuses excuses. The Logan that also beat Shang was in his feral state.

Yes Shang would be a threat but I give Logan the majority.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
Excuses excuses. The Logan that also beat Shang was in his feral state.

Yes Shang would be a threat but I give Logan the majority.

i wasnt making any excuses i just stated why he was there and what happened besides how to you explain the rest of my argument huh?

i guess you ignore his legitimate meta reflex feats.....

being feral doesnt disgredit his feat against shang.

Originally posted by jinzin

I fail to see what you think Elektra brings to this thread as she's grossly superhuman in all aspects including her mind.

She does not have superhuman strength. I don't think any big name characters(Wolverine, Daredevil) has been astounded by her physical strength.