Originally posted by PRAYERRUN
see the thing about logan is if he doesn't have his healing powers or his skeleton and claws, he doesn't have super strength either. You may argue that he still has the fighting ability, but he usually concentrates on battling knowing that whatever happens, he can't die. So for me, he's out.
actually he retain his super strength.
He gone literally years with out a healing factor or knowing he had one. Hell I even say he spent longer either not having one or not knowing he had one then Batman been alive.
he given capt a blood clot in a weaken state.
He put DD in a full nelson with out taking a hit.
He beaten shang-chi with out the need for a healing factor.
He choked out bucky with out taking a hit and prior to his enhancement by weapon x ect.
Originally posted by jinzin
Cap WAS superhuman..... He's grossly beyond the peak of human potential and proved himself to be constantly. He may have been described several times throughout his entire career as peak but there should be no question as to his low-level superhumanhood.At this point you're just defecting to an argument of title vs. feats and we all know feats are what matter.
Cap with SSS = Peak of human potential
Cap with SSS and with Vipers poison=Superhuman strength until it faded. That's why when it faded he still wished he had superhuman strength. Seriously. You'd argue anything that doesn't make sense.
He is not beyond the peak of human potential, whatever he does is what the peak of human potential is jinzin. It can even be true superhuman levels but in the end he's just a pure human so anything he does represents the peak of humanity.
Heck because of the SSS the guy can live frozen on Ice forever without special medical equipment, ages slow, is immune to many diseases, can't get drunk, and has even healed from a bullet to the head in 12 minutes.
This is superhuman in most "universes" but in the marvel universe it is the peak of human potential.
Originally posted by Daredevil1😂
Cap with SSS = Peak of human potential
Oh the irony.
>>>"Caps is above peak human. These are quotes from Ed Brubaker. Thanks go to Daredevil1 for finding them.
http://www.comicboards.com/camb/vie...pl=060330214926
"Just physical exertion. While I don't think of Cap as 'super' like Spider-man or Superman, he's clearly not Batman with a shield. He's not just like a guy who works out all the time and is trained. He's been enhanced, and I wanted to show that a bit."
"See, I never understand why everyone gets so worked up about this stuff. Cap was given the Super-Soldier Serum. The first word there is SUPER. He's not superman, but clearly, he's been shown to be much faster and stronger than a well-trained athlete, many many times. One of everyone's favorite Cap appearances seems to be DD: Born Again, where he's shown running to fast that he's a breeze."
http://www.comicboards.com/camb/vie...q=ed%20brubaker
"I see it as he's the ultimate of human potential. Not something the modern man could ever be, but like an evolutionary next-step, basically. He's not Thor or Spiderman, but he's not Batman, either." "<<<
Originally posted by Daredevil1To a degree he didn't have before... It doesn't discredit the clear superhumanhood he had regardless. How in the world does it not make sense? 🤨
Cap with SSS and with Vipers poison=Superhuman strength until it faded. That's why when it faded he still wished he had superhuman strength. Seriously. You'd argue anything that doesn't make sense.
Cap has ENHANCEMENTS. He's been described as SUPER and ENHANCED. Everything the character does is CLEARLY outside the scope of human capability but he's not "super" because he's human?
Yeah THAT'S what doesn't make sense.. Is how you can know who Cap is, what he's done and still draw yourself to the conclusion that he's mere human, peak or not.
Originally posted by Daredevil1Well for 1) You have no idea WHAT the peak of human "potential" would indicate and what limitations it would imply... and 2) If Cap IS only the peak of human potential.. then the peak of human "potential" is CLEARLY SUPERHUMAN.
He is not beyond the peak of human potential, whatever he does is what the peak of human potential is jinzin.
Originally posted by Daredevil1This is a contradictory statement that immediately discredits itself and No.. he's not a "pure human" hence his enhancements and resistance to fatigue due to the SSS. 😐
It can even be true superhuman levels but in the end he's just a pure human so anything he does represents the peak of humanity.
Originally posted by Daredevil1So then.... SUPERHUMAN. 😐
Heck because of the SSS the guy can live frozen on Ice forever without special medical equipment, ages slow, is immune to many diseases, can't get drunk, and has even healed from a bullet to the head in 12 minutes.
Originally posted by Daredevil1According to whom? Because if your basing this ridiculous argument off of Marvel's label, then you need to recognize that they've also labeled him as enhanced and superhuman as well.
This is superhuman in most "universes" but in the marvel universe it is the peak of human potential.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
And Electra is clearly not superhuman in strength and neither is Daredevil who's lifting feats are better then Electra.
And obviously.. it isn't that "clear" due to the fact that Elektra has explosive speed and power feats that greatly outstrip those from multiple "peak human" parties. In any case this is getting out of hand because the point of the matter is that you simply can't compare Wolverine's fights with Elektra with his fights with any other human with decent skill level because she has grossly superhuman attributes in every area even if you want to discard her strength and that includes telepathic abilities.
Originally posted by Daredevil1
Anything can be debatable but Cap being superhuman is not. He's been dubbed the peak of human potential for a reason or even stated to be almost superhuman. His outlandish feats as outlandish as they are still what the peak of human potential can do.Heck Cap ran about 60 mph that is superhuman by some of marvel standards I imagine but for Cap that is what the peak of human potential is capable of.
and he always did things thet were humanly impossible
Originally posted by Warrior18
So does Robin. *shrugs*
This is my thinking... everyone is making such a big deal about Cap's feats making him superhuman, when every decent street leveler has plenty of superhuman feats.
I guess people consider Cap's "legit" and the others are bad writing, even if they happen consistently.
Originally posted by darthgoober
I always thought it was funny that readers cling to the "peak human" thing in regards to Cap when people who see the limits of his strength in comics consider him to be superstrong...http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/af-02-05.jpg
http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr347/darthgoober/af-02-06.jpg
How many people is he lifting up? edt: I saw 7 thats approx 1400lbs and he didnt just lift it he threw them. That 1400lbs excludes the weight of their weapons and armour if we added it them it could at least come to 1500lbs.
Originally posted by grimify
This is my thinking... everyone is making such a big deal about Cap's feats making him superhuman, when every decent street leveler has plenty of superhuman feats.I guess people consider Cap's "legit" and the others are bad writing, even if they happen consistently.
Not at all, it's simply that Cap's feats greatly outstrip those of practically everyone of his supposed peers. 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
Not at all, it's simply that Cap's feats greatly outstrip those of practically everyone of his supposed peers. 😬
If they did, why would there, after all these years, still be any question?
Why would the Batman vs Cap argument still rage if Cap plain outstrips all of supposed his peers? No one calls Batman Superhuman but he does have comparable feats in catagories people tend to think of ie Reaction times, Skill/knowledge/Combat Speed and such aswell as strength feats.
Im not doubting what you say, hell ive been an advocate of Cap doing seriously superhuman things for a long time, but i just don't see it so cut and dry, when you compare him to someone who isn't supposed to be superhuman but still has comparable feats. Or rather enough feats to inch away at the supposed capability gap. ie again, Batman and Cap.
Originally posted by Juk3n
If they did, why would there, after all these years, still be any question?
Why would the Batman vs Cap argument still rage if Cap plain outstrips all of supposed his peers? No one calls Batman Superhuman but he does have comparable feats in catagories people tend to think of ie Reaction times, Skill/knowledge/Combat Speed and such aswell as strength feats.Im not doubting what you say, hell ive been an advocate of Cap doing seriously superhuman things for a long time, but i just don't see it so cut and dry, when you compare him to someone who isn't supposed to be superhuman but still has comparable feats. Or rather enough feats to inch away at the supposed capability gap. ie again, Batman and Cap.
Bingo.
Batman's feats are every bit the equal of Cap, yet, somehow, Batman is peak human (some people won't even give him peak human credit), and Cap is superhuman.
Originally posted by Juk3n
If they did, why would there, after all these years, still be any question?
Why would the Batman vs Cap argument still rage if Cap plain outstrips all of supposed his peers? No one calls Batman Superhuman but he does have comparable feats in catagories people tend to think of ie Reaction times, Skill/knowledge/Combat Speed and such aswell as strength feats.Im not doubting what you say, hell ive been an advocate of Cap doing seriously superhuman things for a long time, but i just don't see it so cut and dry, when you compare him to someone who isn't supposed to be superhuman but still has comparable feats. Or rather enough feats to inch away at the supposed capability gap. ie again, Batman and Cap.
What's more, in addition to Cap's actual feats Cap's acknowledged superiority over other street level guys in Marvel needs to be taken into consideration. Batman, Shang Chi, and Captain America have comparable feats for things like physical ability and skill which by most people's logic would mean that the three characters are more or less equal, right? But the thing is that for all the comparable feats Shang has to Cap's, Cap is still regarded as being Shang's superior in Marvel and THAT needs to be taken into consideration as well. If Shang and Bat are approximately equal in regards to feats and Cap has a recognized edge on Shang, doesn't that logically give him an edge on Batman as well?
Originally posted by Juk3nI ask myself the same exact. same. question. 😐
If they did, why would there, after all these years, still be any question?
Originally posted by Juk3n
Why would the Batman vs Cap argument still rage if Cap plain outstrips all of supposed his peers?
Originally posted by Juk3nSkill and knowledge are not physical attributes so they don't really matter in a discussion about what seperates Cap from Batman on a physical level.
No one calls Batman Superhuman but he does have comparable feats in catagories people tend to think of ie Reaction times, Skill/knowledge/Combat Speed and such aswell as strength feats.
Their combat speed and reaction times are comparable, yes. That's not what seperates Cap from his peers so much as his equilibrium, strength, durability, endurance/stamina, running speed. His brain might even process faster though that's certainly debateable.
And in terms of strength feats... Captain America has strength feats that are borderline Looney Tune quality throwing his shield harder and faster than a missile at escape velocity. 😐
When it comes to limitations we've seen Batman struggle to support 1000 pounds over his head, Cap has not only supported it but tossed it multitudes of feet into the air at speed.
Originally posted by Juk3n😕
Im not doubting what you say, hell ive been an advocate of Cap doing seriously superhuman things for a long time, but i just don't see it so cut and dry, when you compare him to someone who isn't supposed to be superhuman but still has comparable feats. Or rather enough feats to inch away at the supposed capability gap. ie again, Batman and Cap.
Well Batman vs. Cap wasn't really something I was even arguing about to be honest so much as simply producing Cap for what he is, a superhuman.
As far as Batman's concerned. Batman has feats that are comparible, sure, but still outstripped. He can't compete with Cap on a COMPLETE physical level, so there IS a gap; which is the only thing that seperates the two.
