the NEW GODS vs EXITAR

Originally posted by Enyalus
No, Imperiex-Prime is not and no, he did not use the OS on him and no, he did not solo him.

Naija's point was the one I was going to bring up. "Fundamental force of restriction" means absolutely zilch, since...there is no such thing. What would that even equate to IRL, anyway? The Strong Nuclear Force?

Morrison is really going overboard on the hyperbolic verbal vomit.

You can call BS all you like on Imperiex. It's already been proven he's Galactus level and up. So the fact that DS was able to contribute to breaking his armor is a definite high feat. Or what about COIE? Supplying the power for Alex Luthor to strike down AM?

"Morrison is really going overboard on the hyperbolic verbal vomit. "
You don't like it? Tough. The very nature of the Omega Force itself is in higher concepts of philosophy. It is not hyperbole. It's the actual description of the ability and how it works.

2nd, Celestials are not always consistent. Exitar himself was killed by THE INVISIBLE WOMAN. 😐 I can definitely claim that striking his brain with the OS would **** him royally.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You can call BS all you like on Imperiex. It's already been proven he's Galactus level and up. So the fact that DS was able to contribute to breaking his armor is a definite high feat. Or what about COIE? Supplying the power for Alex Luthor to strike down AM?

"Morrison is really going overboard on the hyperbolic verbal vomit. "
You don't like it? Tough. The very nature of the Omega Force itself is in higher concepts of philosophy. It is not hyperbole. It's the actual description of the ability and how it works.

2nd, Celestials are not always consistent. Exitar himself was killed by THE INVISIBLE WOMAN. 😐 I can definitely claim that striking his brain with the OS would **** him royally.

Yet again the OS has not taken down anybody near Exitar's level on it's own. There are no battle feats that even come close to taking somebody down on it's own. Sorry but DS and the OS would do squat to Exitar and he would squash him like a bug.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Okay. Hulk has broken out of such things before. Crimson Bands of Cyttorak, for example.

Ditto for Dr. Strange. Ditto for several other characters. Exitar wouldn't be able to break free of this restriction because...?

Because OS is an ever adapting, ever moving, living prison, made up of the intangible all encompassing stuff of reality. He's not going to be breaking his way out. You need something far more exotic to accomplish that.

The target lives in OS bombarded by a succession realities intended to destory their ego.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You can call BS all you like on Imperiex. It's already been proven he's Galactus level and up. So the fact that DS was able to contribute to breaking his armor is a definite high feat.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"Morrison is really going overboard on the hyperbolic verbal vomit. "
You don't like it? Tough. The very nature of the Omega Force itself is in higher concepts of philosophy. It is not hyperbole. It's the actual description of the ability and how it works.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
2nd, Celestials are not always consistent. Exitar himself was killed by THE INVISIBLE WOMAN. 😐 I can definitely claim that striking his brain with the OS would **** him royally.

Originally posted by Allankles
Because OS is an ever adapting, ever moving, living prison, made up of the intangible all encompassing stuff of reality. He's not going to be breaking his way out. You need something far more exotic to accomplish that.

Originally posted by Allankles
The target lives in OS bombarded by a succession realities intended to destory their ego.

Originally posted by Allankles
How can it be fallacious when we're talking about Exitar? No one has said it will entrap anyone. there's nothing to suggest it won't trap Exitar since its whole purpose is to trap life forms. There's nothing to suggest OS would fail to entrap Exitar and the only argument I've seen is some ambiguous statement.

We're not talking about relative reality warping (though Exitar doesn't have any feats in that regard either), we're talking about an ever adapting prison that utlizes the 'stuff' of reality to bound its quarry.

There's no reality warping (I didn't even use that term) OS is a reality in of itself - I said it bombards the target with a succesion of varied realities designed to destroy the targets ego.

Its fallacious because u were attempting to use an essentially meaningless description to prove that the OS could affect a being astronomically more powerful than any it has been shown to affect on panel. Theres nothing to suggest that the OS would be able to work on a being above universal level reality manipulation. Not unless u consider killing batman a feat that proves such.

Cube beings such as kubik and Beyonder, can and have created their own realities so its not "relative reality warping"were talking about here but rather control,creation and manipulation of reality on a universal scale.

From ur description OS is reality manipulation. (Using fancy terms in describing it dont change that) A form of attack which from all indications are ineffective against Celestials even at their highest of levels.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
You can call BS all you like on Imperiex. It's already been proven he's Galactus level and up. So the fact that DS was able to contribute to breaking his armor is a definite high feat. Or what about COIE? Supplying the power for Alex Luthor to strike down AM?

"Morrison is really going overboard on the hyperbolic verbal vomit. "
You don't like it? Tough. The very nature of the Omega Force itself is in higher concepts of philosophy. It is not hyperbole. It's the actual description of the ability and how it works.

2nd, Celestials are not always consistent. Exitar himself was killed by THE INVISIBLE WOMAN. 😐 I can definitely claim that striking his brain with the OS would **** him royally.

That's another thing. The Omega Force is one of the highest cosmic forces in the DCU. "The power at the centre of all destruction".

Originally posted by Naija boy
Its fallacious because u were attempting to use an essentially meaningless description to prove that the OS could affect a being astronomically more powerful than any it has been shown to affect on panel.

How is it meaningless when it describing the essential nature of the whole damn thing? Do you just accept random feats without context? The description is the context that explains the feats OS has.

This argument is totally pointless. You have nothing to show that Exitar's "astronimical" power would even factor to an ever adapting prison capable of generating its own reality.

Originally posted by Enyalus

You act as if Darkseid can fathom the ego or intellect of a Celestial. [/B]

Why wouldn't he? He can fathom far deeper unimaginable concepts like the Source and the Anti-life equation. What is Exitar's ego to a being like Darkseid?

Originally posted by Allankles
Why wouldn't he? He can fathom far deeper unimaginable concepts like the Source and the Anti-life equation. What is Exitar's ego to a being like Darkseid?

The High Evolutionary's gone insane just from witnessing the birth of a Celestial, let alone attempting to fathom the workings of its mind and how it thinks. Not even the Watcher, who has incredible cosmic awarness (above Odin's level), was able to grasp Celestial affairs.

Originally posted by Allankles
How is it meaningless when it describing the essential nature of the whole damn thing? Do you just accept random feats without context? The description is the context that explains the feats OS has.

This argument is totally pointless. You have nothing to show that Exitar's "astronimical" power would even factor to an ever adapting prison capable of generating its own reality.

That description of its "essential nature" in and of itself doesnt tell us anything about whether it would affect exitar. Thats the whole damn point. The description has no inherent meaning hence the reason the actual examples of whom this power has affected are needed.

Indeed this argument is pointles because until u show the OS affecting a being to whom universal reality manipulation is nothing, then ur argument will continue to be laughable and without substance

Originally posted by Enyalus
😬 He doesn't know what the Source is thinking, and the ALE is a static equation, not some kind of higher plane of reality sentience.

The High Evolutionary's gone insane just from witnessing the birth of a Celestial, let alone attempting to fathom the workings of its mind and how it thinks. Not even the Watcher, who has incredible cosmic awarness (above Odin's level), was able to grasp Celestial affairs.

The ALE is static but is unimaginably vast in its entirety. It's not just a static equation but a working thesis disproving the very concept of free will. The Source is the ultimate repository of knowledge how is the limited ego of a celestial going to overawe a mind that has already fathomed far larger things?

Originally posted by Naija boy

Indeed this argument is pointles because until u show the OS affecting a being to whom universal reality manipulation is nothing, then ur argument will continue to be laughable and without substance

I never talked about relative reality manipulation. OS is the universe and anyone trapped inside it is subject to its power unless you have feats that Exitar can even warp reality let alone escape from an ever adapting cosmic hamster wheel.

so you are saying DS can beat Exitar? 🤨

thats a pretty ridiculous argument you have going there

Originally posted by bbrem123
so you are saying DS can beat Exitar? 🤨

thats a pretty ridiculous argument you have going there

He can use a weapon (OS) to trap him. Hardly ridculous given that OS is a self contained reality, that adapts to trap its quarry.

"Exitar is above it." Bullshit. Galactus can solo any celestial.

And I am saying that he can strike his brain and send him into hell. Because the OE and OS allow him to bypass the normal defenses of the celestial.

"You act as if Darkseid can fathom the ego or intellect of a Celestial."

You speak as though the celestial can comprehend the concept of Darkseid. The Celestials are inscrutable and powerful, but not necessarily deep. And they really don't seem to have much in the way of ego or personality.

Also? I do not believe they are capable of comprehending the ALE for their own use, but they would fall to it if DS used it on them.

Originally posted by Allankles
The ALE is static but is unimaginably vast in its entirety. It's not just a static equation but a working thesis disproving the very concept of free will.

loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding x guilt x shame x failure x judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side.

Also, I'm not entirely sure how accurate this is because I took it from Wikipedia and I see no sources, but:

When Starlin returned to writing the New Gods in 2007's Death of the New Gods mini-series, the retcon was reversed and revised, with the Anti-Life Equation Entity being revealed to be one-half of a cosmic being that was split into two by the war of the old gods (the other half of the cosmic entity being the Source). In a text page published in "Final Crisis Secret Files", Grant Morrison attempts to reconcile the Starlin version of the Anti-Life Equation with his own version, by suggesting that the Equation is indeed sentient (as Starlin suggests) and that even after "mastering" the Equation, Darkseid still does not understand the true horrific nature of what the Anti-Life Equation is and its relationship with the Source.

Originally posted by Allankles
The Source is the ultimate repository of knowledge how is the limited ego of a celestial going to overawe a mind that has already fathomed far larger things?

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"Exitar is above it." Bullshit. Galactus can solo any celestial.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And I am saying that he can strike his brain and send him into hell. Because the OE and OS allow him to bypass the normal defenses of the celestial.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
"You act as if Darkseid can fathom the ego or intellect of a Celestial."

You speak as though the celestial can comprehend the concept of Darkseid.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Also? I do not believe they are capable of comprehending the ALE for their own use, but they would fall to it if DS used it on them.

Exitar puts a shield up and dominates everybody...game over

Eny: Starlin had DS absorbing the power of the Source in his story and outsmarting the Source. I'd say according to the same Starlin (whose work was retconned by the way) DS can fathom the Source.

His whole Anti-life monster story back in Cosmic Odyssey was retconned too. The ALE is part of the Source which (as the ultimate concept) cannot be halved, divided or contained.

Originally posted by Enyalus

We know what the ALE is. It's:

loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding x guilt x shame x failure x judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side.

That's just a fraction of the equation as its presented to the lower vibrational worlds outside the 4th world.

This scan states that like most of the weapons of the higher vibrational world of the New Gods, we only see a facets of the barely imaginable whole of the equation.