Given his character type vs Bobby's powers I just don't see how he's going to win is all.
Destroying one of bobby's shell's won't do it. Seeing as how many times that's happened.
And since bobby can stil lfight without a shell, that's not a win for Firelord.
What is firelord going to do that he's displayed in the past?
Originally posted by CreshoskBurn him.
Given his character type vs Bobby's powers I just don't see how he's going to win is all.Destroying one of bobby's shell's won't do it. Seeing as how many times that's happened.
And since bobby can stil lfight without a shell, that's not a win for Firelord.
What is firelord going to do that he's displayed in the past?
Concession accepted.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Which two seeing as how I can provide scans for three of those.[B]I don't consider his holding the black hole a durability feat since they made mention of it being incrdibly small as a reference of power. And I've never seen Supes Planet bust I don't follow his books real closely so I may be wrong[B]
That was to ensure he didn't crush the planet when hooked up to their claw.
[B]that's debatable but I'll grant you that[B]
This is full potential we're talking about. Is it really that far fetched that the sweetest of the fruits of the celestial's labour could be high enough to give herald level characters problems?
[B]it's still a matter of what his powers are he might have limitless potential for control over water but that doesnt give him telepathy it doesnt make him able to control magnetic fields so why should it make him faster than the speed of light?[B]
I could also find that scan of Queitin in his Phoenix uniform outside fixing a hole in eternity. He's omega level as well.
[B] But were talking about bobby[B]
In her case sure. But since these omega levels are the direct product of said celestials, they have a reason for being able to do so.
so then since Omegas have infinite potential power do you think Bobby can beat Living Tribunal? Galactus?How about Thanos? what about Thor??? I think you guys are focusing too much on the names of these characters.
Originally posted by Obadiah HornObviously.
I don't consider his holding the black hole a durability feat since they made mention of it being incrdibly small as a reference of power. And I've never seen Supes Planet bust I don't follow his books real closely so I may be wrong[B]
Originally posted by Creshosk
[B]
Here's Superman actually escaping a double black hole this proves his strength, speed, and durability.http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/4198/untitled128qt3bk.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5858/untitled138wy8fy.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/5207/untitled140kt3ew.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/938/untitled152oe8eq.jpg
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/8946/untitled166ov4wo.jpg
Originally posted by Obadiah HornIt's not just water. Water is the primary side effect for his control over kinetic motion. Often times things are depicted as being covered in Ice. but when he destroyed the sentinals they were Icy. they just fell apart. And no, pulling the moisture out of metal won't harm it since it doesn't have it to begin with.
that's debatable but I'll grant you that[B]This is full potential we're talking about. Is it really that far fetched that the sweetest of the fruits of the celestial's labour could be high enough to give herald level characters problems?
[B]it's still a matter of what his powers are he might have limitless potential for control over water
Originally posted by Obadiah HornThe point is that Omega level mutants are not something you can brush off as "Hearld level characters ignore omegas" a blanket statement for which I've give a couple of Omegas either having dealt with herald level beings or higher, or displaying a power that would allow them to.
but that doesnt give him telepathy it doesnt make him able to control magnetic fields so why should it make him faster than the speed of light?[B] Who said he needed to be? This IS a CIS problem on Firelords part I imagine. But I haven't seen him use telepathy either. Which means that he cannot truly Beat bobby. Who has existed without a shell and used his powers while doing so.[QUOTE=12161317]Originally posted by Obadiah Horn
[B]But were talking about bobby[B]
Originally posted by Obadiah HornBobby is limited by CIS as well. He might be able to, but his mind has difficulty accepting what he can do. as such he hasn't displayed what's needed for some of those.
[B]so then since Omegas have infinite potential power do you think Bobby can beat Living Tribunal? Galactus?How about Thanos? what about Thor??? I think you guys are focusing too much on the names of these characters.
Though where would you place a celestial on the ranking system?
Oh wait...You seem to both lump omegas together and as individuals. Naughty naughty inconsistency there.
Want me to post the scans of Celestials sowing the seeds of mutants? It's quite old I'll assure you.
Originally posted by iceman24567
What would flying him into the sun do?
Really??? well.... besides destroying the body he is inhabitting it would fuse his hydrogen atoms to helium deprive him of the moisture he needs to reform heep him thousands of miles away from any new oxygen the gravity would keep him confined and any action he could possibly take to lessen the heat of the Sun would result in it collapsing into a black hole.
Besides that nothing I guess 🙄
Originally posted by Obadiah HornHow is he going to do that when bobby can exist in multiple places at the same time?
Ok how's about this I'll tell you how Firelord can wwin and you Ice fans try to tell me how Bobby can defend against it. You tell me how Bobby can win and I'll try to do the same.Ready , I'll go first
Firelord flies Bobby into the sun.
Whatcha got for that?
What's the bounding box on the battle field, did you just willingly flee the field and BFR yourself.
Congratulations Bobby: 0 Firelord: -1
(In the smash bros games a self destruct takes a point from your score.)
Originally posted by Obadiah HornGravity has an effect on psionic entities?
Really??? well.... besides destroying the body he is inhabitting it would fuse his hydrogen atoms to helium deprive him of the moisture he needs to reform heep him thousands of miles away from any new oxygen the gravity would keep him confined and any action he could possibly take to lessen the heat of the Sun would result in it collapsing into a black hole.Besides that nothing I guess 🙄
That's a new one on me.
As has been stated before he doesn't NEED to reform to use his powers. Destroying his shell is meaningless, and hwe has existed within a firebeing that removes the moisture from the air.
Congratulations your attack is useless even IF he pulls it off.
I'm also going to ask if he's done that in the past... seems out of range of his CIS limit.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Obviously.It's not just water. Water is the primary side effect for his control over kinetic motion. Often times things are depicted as being covered in Ice. but when he destroyed the sentinals they were Icy. they just fell apart. And no, pulling the moisture out of metal won't harm it since it doesn't have it to begin with.
The point is that Omega level mutants are not something you can brush off as "Hearld level characters ignore omegas" a blanket statement for which I've give a couple of Omegas either having dealt with herald level beings or higher, or displaying a power that would allow them to.
Bobby is limited by CIS as well. He might be able to, but his mind has difficulty accepting what he can do. as such he hasn't displayed what's needed for some of those.
Though where would you place a celestial on the ranking system?
Oh wait...You seem to both lump omegas together and as individuals. Naughty naughty inconsistency there.
Want me to post the scans of Celestials sowing the seeds of mutants? It's quite old I'll assure you.
My point is that simply stating that Iceman is an Omega Class Mutant isn't going to win the debate. While Jean was a galaxy buster as Dark Phoenix Vulcan was smacked around by Warlock and possibly destroyed by Black Bolt. An Bobby has never actually shown to be anywhere near as powerful as those 2 even.
The only description Ive heard of Bobby's power being over all kinetic motion on an atomic level was when bishop was talking to him in Ultimate X Men. Am I missing something from 616 continuity or are we just using all instances of Iceman here.
I'm aware of the celestials role that still doesn't answer my question CIS off do you think Bobby could defeat any of the characters I listed?
Originally posted by Obadiah HornI wasn't saying that. I was countering the notion that "Herald levels ignore omega levels"
My point is that simply stating that Iceman is an Omega Class Mutant isn't going to win the debate.
His simply being omega level means that he is one of the products that the celestials were most likely looking for.
Originally posted by Obadiah HornJean was technically more than a galaxy buster. she got closer to her "unlimited potential" Sounds weird but hey, she did hold the 616 universe in her hands.
While Jean was a galaxy buster as Dark Phoenix Vulcan was smacked around by Warlock and possibly destroyed by Black Bolt. An Bobby has never actually shown to be anywhere near as powerful as those 2 even.
Originally posted by Obadiah HornI'll ask blair to come in and explain it. But I'd suggest reading the respect thread for iceman.. there's alot of broken links but given people's reactions I'd say that its true information. But those setinals and the celestial's ship with what looked like the stanger on board shold help understand that its not just Ice it is kinetic motion. he just manifests as Ice because that's the easiet thing to manipulate.
The only description Ive heard of Bobby's power being over all kinetic motion on an atomic level was when bishop was talking to him in Ultimate X Men. Am I missing something from 616 continuity or are we just using all instances of Iceman here.
Originally posted by Obadiah HornIts possible. Where do you rate the celestials? if you believe them to be above Galactus then yes. He could probably take on galactus. CIS off full potential.
I'm aware of the celestials role that still doesn't answer my question CIS off do you think Bobby could defeat any of the characters I listed?
Not saying he could for certain, but its feasibly with the realm.
Thor? Thor's got more options available to him that we've seen. Especially with that hammer of his.. CIS off for him too, he'd probably magic Bobby into another dimension.
Originally posted by Creshosk
I wasn't saying that. I was countering the notion that "Herald levels ignore omega levels"His simply being omega level means that he is one of the products that the celestials were most likely looking for.
Well to be fair my statements on Omegas and heralds was directed primarily at Peterlane and his two word responses
Its possible. Where do you rate the celestials? if you believe them to be above Galactus then yes. He could probably take on galactus. CIS off full potential.
Not saying he could for certain, but its feasibly with the realm.
Thor? Thor's got more options available to him that we've seen. Especially with that hammer of his.. CIS off for him too, he'd probably magic Bobby into another dimension.
I'd put the celestials well higher than Thanos and slightly belox Galen mostly due to the fact that there have been a few celestials that have high showings and a few that have been damaged by high tier metas (i.e. Exitar being destroyed by sue storm) while galactus even in a severely weakened state was able to pull off solar system busting AOE blasts, large scale transmutations and dimension dumping.
I'll wait for this Blair to come around but I'm still not convinced in the slightest that Iceman has anything to counteract the speed any offensive showings that would be effective against firelord,or a level of energy manipulation that is on par with firelord.
