Originally posted by BloodRain
Neph smoothly covered it. As shown in other media when a character enters super speed they can make the world appear to come to a crawl, not be effected by air pressure or friction, and have their clothes/hair/etc moving normally. To say Dante with this effect cannot be due to speed if for you to say that Clark Kent, Sonic and Metro-Man were not actually moving fast but did this because to a stasis-like power.The issue with your claim is that its just that. As you said, only your suggestion based on what you think it looks like. Nothing to support it and nothing to back it up. If it was a stasis field then Dante's coat wouldnt be flapping around like that, it would be suspended just like the glass. More to the point, there is [b]no quote
saying stasis field while there is a quote saying it grants speed.I doubt Dante put up a field to slow these Mach 2+ bullets down. Same goes for Vergil. Can Dante create a stasis field that can slow down such a large area but somehow doesnt effect this coat, hair or the projectiles? Can Vergil create stasis fields that allow his coat and sword tassle to move around but still slows down enemies?
No. Dante cant. Vergil cant. Metro-Man, Sonic and Clark cant.
If we ignore the Rain, three bullet, Pandora and Abyss scenes and then ignore Alastor's description.. then we may as well start making up claims.
Oh, and its funny how the Alastor feat in your opinion has to have friction heat to be official.... yet when Dante /does/ burn with hypersonic friction its not a speed feat? Pick and choose? [/B]
All youve got is your claim though, and you assume your claim is correct above mine because? you calculated your claim? which would be invalid due to my claim, whcih I have also proven based on the lack of movement of clothing and air pressure.
You cant use other media sources, especialy cartoons and such to argue physics, tbh I recall when I would say the same about video games but if you want to value Dantes speed as physically amazing, you need to calculate physics, in which case all the relevent things like friction, air pressure etc are important. metro man doesnt give a damn about this because physics are irrelevent to him.
Also other people than me have also pointed out the whole lightning speed claim on the description is hyperbole, you cant use a explanation like that, so ambigious.
The rain doesnt help, three bullet? show me please, and Pandora? when does he go fast during Pandora?
Not at all, its just Dante starts at terminal velocity, we know this. Then he gets quicker, we know this, but then he attacks things we know are not hypersonic, and he leaps off the tower at fairly slow speed, moving through the iar at slow speed as well, the fact his sword gained heat may be something to do with the metal, I dont see how a bullet shooting the hlt could make something go from terminal velocity or even hundreds of mph to thousands+
Also the tower would have to be damn tall for them to go hypersonic, since we know its probably at best about a mile or two high, if that which is pretty unlikely (some of the bigest mountains in the world are not even more than a few miles tall, the biggest being about 5/6 and thats up in the clouds). Dante runs down it without even coming close to the bottom.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Originally posted by Burning thought
All youve got is your claim though, and you assume your claim is correct above mine because? you calculated your claim? which would be invalid due to my claim, whcih I have also proven based on the lack of movement of clothing and air pressure.
Originally posted by Burning thought
You cant use other media sources, especialy cartoons and such to argue physics, tbh I recall when I would say the same about video games but if you want to value Dantes speed as physically amazing, you need to calculate physics, in which case all the relevent things like friction, air pressure etc are important. metro man doesnt give a damn about this because physics are irrelevent to him.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Also other people than me have also pointed out the whole lightning speed claim on the description is hyperbole, you cant use a explanation like that, so ambigious.
"Nothing to support it and nothing to back it up."
Why wont you support it and back it up?
"If it was a stasis field then Dante's coat wouldnt be flapping around like that, it would be suspended just like the glass."
Wheres your counter claim?
"there is no quote saying stasis field while there is a quote saying it grants speed."
Why ignore in-game statements in favour of a made up theory?
Originally posted by Burning thought
The rain doesnt help, three bullet? show me please, and Pandora? when does he go fast during Pandora?
First and second link: Mach 2+ bullets appear to be as fast as a paper plane to Dante. Coat moves as if normal
Third link: Mach 2+ bullets appear to be as fast as a few paper planes to Vergil.
Fourth link: During the Pandora scene Dante's normal movements are actually Mach 1, and throws Grief at Mach 3. Coat and hair moves as if normal.
Fifth link: Vergil moving at Mach 10.5-11. Coat and sheath tassel moves as if normal.
Third is just there proves that time dilation is a DMC thing. The others, especially the fourth and fifth, show that they can be in a supersonic/hypersonic time dilation without friction or air pressure being effected, with their coats or hair moving as if normal and without any excuse for a stasis field. So, your response?
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not at all, its just Dante starts at terminal velocity, we know this. Then he gets quicker, we know this, but then he attacks things we know are not hypersonic, and he leaps off the tower at fairly slow speed, moving through the iar at slow speed as well, the fact his sword gained heat may be something to do with the metal, I dont see how a bullet shooting the hlt could make something go from terminal velocity or even hundreds of mph to thousands+Also the tower would have to be damn tall for them to go hypersonic, since we know its probably at best about a mile or two high, if that which is pretty unlikely (some of the bigest mountains in the world are not even more than a few miles tall, the biggest being about 5/6 and thats up in the clouds). Dante runs down it without even coming close to the bottom.
And yes, it is funny. You complained that the scene isn't hypersonic because there was no visible friction heat. Now that you have the friction heat you wanted youre now saying that just because it has the friction heat it doesn't mean its hypersonic.. Youre sticking with two contradicting points.
Originally posted by BloodRain
blushingBest part ->"I have also proven based on the lack of movement of clothing and air pressure"
Best because now I know you don't read my posts. If youve proven it, how come it happens 7 times total in DMC? And seeing as Ive listed some confirmed speedsters who do the same thing with hair and capes flapping as if normal and without any different air pressure. So you have two options: You can either prove that DMC is the only one that must be different, or prove that those mentioned characters are not using superspeed. Latter being blindingly impossible, you must prove the former which you cant really do as there is literally nothing to suggest a verse is different to another without statements.Cartoon feats or not for comedic effect =/= toonforce. And yes, I can. In fact Im using media from a animated movie, a comic and a live action tv show along with DMC's as a VG. And why should I? As Neph has already shown you all of that friction and air pressure doesnt always have to be present in fiction. Annnnd no, it been proven already that the speed is legit so why dont you go ahead and fill in the gaps in your opinion? Namely If Dante/Sonic/Metro-Man/Clark cant be moving at hypersonic speeds because of some physics implications, then why dont you tell me exactly how everything still appeared to be at a crawl? Prove that and then there will be a reason for me to prove it further.
Lol yeah, some say that the quote is hyperbole. Said nothing about the calc. And WOW... massive and obvious dodge.. Gonna ask again, no more dodging:
"Nothing to support it and nothing to back it up."
Why wont you support it and back it up?"If it was a stasis field then Dante's coat wouldnt be flapping around like that, it would be suspended just like the glass."
Wheres your counter claim?"there is no quote saying stasis field while there is a quote saying it grants speed."
Why ignore in-game statements in favour of a made up theory?...Y-you do know you can just click on the link and see what Im talking about..
First and second link: Mach 2+ bullets appear to be as fast as a paper plane to Dante. Coat moves as if normal
Third link: Mach 2+ bullets appear to be as fast as a few paper planes to Vergil.
Fourth link: During the Pandora scene Dante's normal movements are actually Mach 1, and throws Grief at Mach 3. Coat and hair moves as if normal.
Fifth link: Vergil moving at Mach 10.5-11. Coat and sheath tassel moves as if normal.Third is just there proves that time dilation is a DMC thing. The others, especially the fourth and fifth, show that they can be in a supersonic/hypersonic time dilation without friction or air pressure being effected, with their coats or hair moving as if normal and without any excuse for a stasis field. So, your response?
Neph already debunked that falling speed has nothing to do with a character [b]running
down faster than what terminal velocity can give. Wrong, the feat has no Blood-Goyles around him, watch again. Really? Height of the tower? Right after we spoke about time dilation being DMC's thing?And yes, it is funny. You complained that the scene isn't hypersonic because there was no visible friction heat. Now that you have the friction heat you wanted youre now saying that just because it has the friction heat it doesn't mean its hypersonic.. Youre sticking with two contradicting points. [/B]
It doesnt, your claiming it does but 7 times? Dante is also tagged several times, hes impaled by vergil by slow attacks and shot in the head by lady, thats two off the top of my head but getting poundred by Beowulf is also another case, Beowulf who is slow. And DMc is not the same as those fictions, showing fictions that do one thing different to DMC does not invalidate DMC, peopel are not trying to calc physcial properties like you are either.
Define everything? because all i see in DMC's glass falling scene is glass, that stops, not falls slowly and seems to glint/spin in the air, and DMC does have Dantes coat move, and does show friction heat....just not enough.
Well I know the statement is hyperbole, what I dont know is how glass appears to fly in the air. Also a lot of powers do not affect the user or his equipment, but before you say it, that doesnt stop his equipment being moved by physical forces, so no, his sword did not remove physics from his coat.
He reacts just at the last minute, and moves his head about 4/5 inches out of the way and you claim this means he can blitz people and run at mach 2? please say you dont.....
Not a feat for Dante, its for vergil, so ignored. The pandora thing I dont have an answer for, its looks weird but I dont know whether thats speed or just some artistic license, rockets go at about mach 4 but they look exactly the same here as they do without any time distortion, same with Dante himself, only the toads seem slowed.
There was no time dilation here though, apart from when Dante jumped off, him running down didnt help it. And Neph debunked the belief that Terminal velocity adds to Dantes speed to give him mach 1, Neph did not, and cannot debunk the fact Dante already had momentum to begin wtih, nor can Neph or you prove Dante can go straight to his max speed and run at mach 1 on the fly.
Hypersonic would require the tower to be taller than it is, no time dilation can cover that fact and you never answered, why would a bullet send a sword hypersonic? also, the blood gargoyles were impaled by the sword...again, it didnt burn them or throw them off, nor did it create any sonic distortion.
BT, on the subject of your dismissal of the Pandora's Box scene, I put it to you that a similar situation can be found in this fight scene:
Which, if you compare it to the Pandora's Box scene:
0CNPBF5cjZ0#t=1m13s
Has a similar structure. I put it to you that just as in the first clip when the people are killed they return to normal speeds, so too when the creatures are launched into the air in the Pandora scene they cease to move at superspeeds and move at ordinary speeds (likely because you can't fall superfast) while Dante continues to move at an accelerated rate. Just as in the first scene, this is used to establish Dantes incredible speed in relation to the rest of reality.
But how do you explain the missles? how do you explain Dante as well, theres also the fact the explosion is not in slow motion, so apprently the explosions are "super fast" as well....faster than a real explosion.
Also I have seen immortals, and as the scene kinda displays the Titans do not really go slower unless ther dieing, this looks like 300, where people who die seem to be moving fairly slow while leonidas kills other people. Their a way of displaying several things impressively. If you watch the titans, their bodies are at often times falling slower than they are attacking, their attack speed not being much better than peak human+ since a human was able earlier iirc shoot at arrow at one.
Also a lot of things in DMC happen for styles sake, some things he does or cannot do/react to may be for the plot just as much as the "cooL" looking things may just be for the coolness of the scene, not logic or physics, which is what these frogs seem to represent, if the missles were in slow mo, and the explosion then I would probably think it over but in any case it seems not. Also it seems you need to find feats for characters in other media to try and explain short comings for Dante, you never argue that perhaps the people in said fictions are faster or have a specific unique powerset to Dante.
Addressing something I missed;
"the fact his sword gained heat may be something to do with the metal"
1. Needs even a shred of evidence to even start being considered.
2. Metals need to be at 1,100C to get that colour. And by NASA, 1,100C friction heat = 1,100 m/s aka Mach 3.233.
2.5. The heat would be /on/ the blade, not /around/ the blade.
3. Friction heat doesn't depend on material.
3.5. Doesnt explain how Dante's hand did the same thing.
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...So? Sonic, Sora, Sephiroth, Goku, Ichigo, Naruto, SuperMan, Flash, Spider-Man (Add list of VG, manga and comic characters) have all been tagged by things far below their speed. Are we to now claim that these characters supersonic to FTL feats mean nothing? No. And for the remainder of your comment: "You can either prove that DMC is the only one that must be different (...) literally nothing to suggest a verse is different to another without statements."
Note: Bad examples. Verg easily pummeled Dante into fatigue (evident by how he needed his sword to help him stand right before), he didnt care about the shot (evident by the following shot where he caught it with his teeth <-supersonic RT) and Beowulf? "Flash gauntlets and greaves. This set boosts Dante's/Vergil’s attack and speed making him a powerhouse." He's not just strong, his speed is high too.
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Didnt answer my question. In DMC and other media everything is slowed down and the characters and their clothes/hair move as if normal despite the massive amounts of air-resistance and without heating up. Unless you find something that proves that the times it happens in DMC must be different to the others (no way without some quotes) then whatever claim you pin on DMC will be the same for all the others.
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"I dont know is how glass appears to fly in the air"
Im stumped to how this line isnt the end to this topic... To sum up; You admittedly have no clue whats going on. But instead of agreeing with the quotes that state it gives him speed (lightning or not, it still makes him faster) and that the same effect happens in other media, you go and make up 'stasis field' with no quotes, statements or anything in DMC canon to back you up. Physical forces? What physical forces? If there was a stasis field that causes everything but Dante and his coat to be effected then so to will the air be effected. Meaning that he wouldn't be experiencing and drag, his coat could not move around like it did without it. Unless you want to add 'effects everything but Dante, his coat and the air', but that be adding more things for you to somehow prove.
"Nothing to support it and nothing to back it up."
"there is no quote saying stasis field while there is a quote saying it grants speed."
That is, if there is anything.
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"He reacts just at the last minute" <- Is what a dodging reaction feat is. Not only does his reactions make Ma2+ bullets appear to move at 2m/s [1/350th their speed, Ma2+ reactions], but he also is able to move at normal speed while the bullet is in this effect. And I believe you missed the point. The point of posting this was to once again demonstrate the slow-down effect. This one makes things appear 1/350th their speed, about the same as the dilation Verg made. Counter the dilation point here.
A predictable and wrong statement. Dante3's speed = Vergil's speed < Older Dante's speed. So any speed Verg has, Dante has. Now answer how both of Vergil's dilation effects.
Two options: Its speed, or the same as Alastor. And I doubt youll claim this is stasis as well. Not sure what you mean. That they dont look that speed in gameplay (obvious reason) or that they dont appear to be moving fast? If the latter, thats what the whole dilation topic is about.
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This is where I post the same characters from above who can all go from 0-max near instantly... but I dont even need to go down the superhuman path when nature is pretty fast; Humans can get to max speed in 6 seconds, greyhounds in 1.5 and fleas in 0.001-0.00075. So 1.5 for sized creatures. Two things different with Dante; His leg strength and speed is far above mammals so acceleration will be faster than a simple 1.5, and that he is a superhuman and not a mere mammal. Maybe if you had something that proves that Dante needs time to get to max, again making him an exception to other superhumans, then go ahead and show me your proof.
No offense but to you /nothing/ has been a time dilation, so Im not surprised you dont think one can happen here. Being impaled by something =/= being as fast as it.. in fact if they were at that speed they wouldnt have been impaled. Re-watch the scene to refresh your memory. Because we can clearly see that when the swords thrown, when its speed increases the impaled goyles burst and so do a few more that touch Rebellion on the way down.Why would a bullet knock back 10 tons of wall and make a 200 ton demon explode one second, to only knocking back billiard ball into others the next? Dante can control the power of his bullets.
Lets look at it with Newton's laws: The speed of the bullet would be its original speed [700m/s] plus the speed Dante was moving [200m/s as it has to be faster than free-falls 150m/s], then that speed [900m/s] pushing the sword making it twice the speed of the bullet [1,800m/s] and finally x1.5 for the speed Dante needed to catch it [2,700m/s] for just about Mach 8. But this is ignoring the fact that Dante doesnt have normal bullets, his can be infused with more energy to do greater things.
Newton's laws with DMC: ((Bullet speed + Dante's speed)*2F)*1.5, with F being the extra force Dante can put into the bullet. As a bullet is only around 500J where to knock the wall back like it did requires 1MJ, 2000x its energy. F will be a great figure.
(You can even ignore everything and will still have to admit that Dante's speed had to be higher than the bullet+run speed, already making him Mach 4)
Without getting a figure for this, finding speed via Newton's laws cant be done. We must go by what we see and know:
1. Visible friction starts at Ma5-10, Ma7 for fist sized objects.
2. By aerodynamics, Rebellion with its lower frontal SA [10cm^2] than that of a fist [50cm^2] will need higher speeds to get the same level of friction.
3. Dante was moving at >1.5x its speed to catch it.
Minimum of Mach 15.
Most of this does not make sense tbh. Metal should be getting hot, or create some sort of heat, same with Dantes hand getting hot as it gets closer but not the rest of him. Its almost like the bullet striking the metal made it heat up.
Your whole post is pretty much pushing for "other universes do it, let Dante have this feat pleaz!" ,theres no proof for you in the actual game.
And prove his leg strength and speed is so high? hes never run at any major speed, all this Mach 15 running nonsense is unfounded, he has at best fought quickly, although mach speeds is again all your doing, nobody else from other less bias areas have done this.
Also I like how your adding up all the speed, it does not work like that. The bullet goes at X speed, which increases the falling sword at X speed, which was slowed by the gargoyles and just tossed by Dante and Dantes bullets are quite weak without visible devil energy used in them, so weak they cant pierce billiard balls, hell not even mark them, just send them bouncing around it seems.
Dante in the scene is starting from heightened momentum from falling, increases his speed, slows down again.....then we have the actul facts in the game. The tower he is on is only about a mile or two tall at best. If he was going so fast he would be more than a quarter/haflway down the thing....he also used a bike to cover al ot of distance up the tower, bikes do not go mach speed yet he seemed to favour it over running.
Its not the end because glass flying into the air, and me not knowing why is me being honest on the subject. I brought up the stasis as my interpretation, you seem to like the speed idea, but I have disproven that. Also, I think even nemebro said something about how odd the glass looks in the respect thread....
I like it how your interpreation automatically holds precedence because what? you like the game more than me or something? Toss out hte hyperbole quote and theres any real reason to belive hes going mach speed.
No, theres a quote that says it makes Dante lightning, which is hyperbole. Having played the game, I have seen the effects it has on his speed, he moves much quicker true byt not lightning.
Also since when is a statement, especially a hyperbole one that does not make sense with the scene (glass floating yet refelecting and moving apprently in teh air). the same as a canon showing of lightning speed? never.
I never said it was lightning speed, but hyperbole means exaggeration not lies. It doesn't matter how fast it increases him by, the quote directly says that it increases his speed. Therefore he was using speed in the scene, not some preposturous stasis field.
Statements can dictate canon just as easily as on-screen evidence.
Show me the quote again, I thought it just said lightning speed. Not just increases speed.
Youve yet to counter the physical ramifactions as well, pointing out "well megamind does not have to play by physic rules!" is not the same as Dante does not. If you want to argue tropes in media ignore physics consistently then the same can be said for everything here, any bonus Dante may acquie from speed or strength can be up for scrutinty and just being "fun" for the play in this form of media.
Only from a non hyperbole source though.
So it does not say it increases his speed, it does simply give a direct statement of hyperbole. I thought you were refering to it saying he gains a speed boost. If we dont hold the "lightning speed" claim as base value then we cant just shrug our shoulders and say "well ok then, maybe just means a 10th of lightning speed?", you cant change the statement.
'Gives the possessor lightning speed' directly says that it affects the users speed. Sorry, but theres absolutely nothing you can argue against. A quote saying that it affects the users speed is more evidence than you have and more than enough evidence than is needed to prove that Dante was using speed in the scene in question.
As you said, it does look like hyperbole. But as I said, hyperbole is not the same as lies. The quote proves that Alastor affects the users speed. End of discussion.
Well maybe it does, but to what levels? And whos to say what specific speeds?
Automatically, it affecting speed which can be seen in-game means ever use of it is a speed use? or any magic effects have to be speed? me not the only one convinced by that, Nemebro thought so too.
The discussion was about a specific scene, not whether Alastor effects the users speed. Having played it I know Dante is a lot quicker, maybe twice as fast.