Alex Mercer vs Dante

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
im pretty sure the shockwave from dante activating his dt would blast mercer back from him if he tries infecting dante.. at least it did damage and knockback effects in dmc 3 and 4.

and im pretty sure the power from beowulf, or ifrit works on an area of effect type heat/light damage. and i dont know what his "drive" ability launches, other than red demon energy. then theres the nightmare gun, the artemis gun, the pandora box/gun, the grenade launcher, kalina anne, the shotgun, (which he nunchucks.. O_o...its awesome)the dual smg's, his normal magnums, a bitchin sniper rifle (of which, he trick shots bullet richochet to hit targets multiple times).. and.. another missile launcher.

most of those used by the human forces can damage mercer in game. how does a virus react to flames? O_o a buffered nuke went off underwater and the resulting shockwave reduced him into a blob.

so we have to see... how does a super virus react to flames, demonic energy, light energy, lightning, ice, and wind-based attacks?
(also dante has dopplegangers, time slows and full on stops, and never had to reload)
and how does dante react to stabs, bashings, slices, and rending?

hmmn... there seems to be alot of unknowns on mercers end.

Not sure how powerful the effect is, Mercer iirc builds mass as he devours hence why falling causes nearby cars to fly into the air so I cant imagine a simple blast that knocks back some of Dantes mooks would knock back Mercer.

Most of these weapons are fairly featless meaning they have done little within the storyline to show their power which is fairly important for projectile weapons, we have a rough idea of how strong they are and Dantes sniper rifle as you call it is an anti material rifle iirc, but still, Mercer has taken all kinds of small arms fire before and missles and such.

A nuke is so far beyond Dantes arsenal though that its not really comparable.

Well I would like feats for these before I can form a defence but tbh I only entered the thread to weed out Dantes speed arguments, to find truth amongst the lies because my knowledge on Mercer is really old atm.

i find it funny how you guys rely so heavily on so called "feats" when what you're all comparing are characters in a game. obviously the best comparison is to play both games, and weigh the effects and damage of abilities through gameplay. but made up fluff and filler about story seems to hold more sway on here.

maybe its just me, but i dont get it. seems silly, really. ignoring some of the shit the characters do in game because theres not an outside mythos to confirm they can do it in other mediums? the best thing i have to show as a display of dantes power, i cant find good clips of..

its an attack dante does in the first game, on the start of the last boss battle. the flying sequence. when he builds up his devil trigger gauge, and activates it. he launches a freakin demonic dragon of flame and energy. that thing tears through rock, lightning, energy lances, and even mundus and just keeps on going. its actually the only thing that does any real damage to mundus at all.

now.. based on everything i saw. dante couldnt touch mundus. period. until he unleashed his fullest demon powers. (as can be equated to virgil losing to mundus and becoming nelo angelo) the only time you could deal damage to him was in a dt state. all forms of firearms, and any blade strikes. were wholly and totally USELESS against him. the dude could sit in demonic magma like it was a bathtub of lukewarm water. and this dragon TORE over 1/3rd of that guys health out per shot. on harder difficulties. and all it took was 3 lit dt glyphs. O_o.

and mercer takes damage from those firearms that were completely useless against mundus. so.. i think mercers hosed.

Feats take precedent since gameplay isn't necessarily accurate. Health bars aren't exactly the best way to gauge how durable something is for example. Kinda like your example of Alex Mercer being harmed by guns in gameplay, yet in cutscene they don't harm him at all and he can tank a grenade launcher without damage. I could just as easily claim durability for Mercer because he can have a missile explode in his face or get hit by a tank round for not much more damage than a rifle. In contradictory cases like those the canon story is preferred, which means cutscenes are better.

Still, gameplay can provide a guideline as long as mechanics are generally left out. Devil May Cry has different setting where a given enemy might deal more damage, yet the cutscenes stay the same, where Dante is immune to their attacks and able to kill them in one hit. BT just takes this too far, in my opinion.

well.. the way i look at it.. in game actions are something you're actually doing. as a player, as a character. it happened. you were there, you did it. fluff and such, like codex stats and lore, can be retconned easily and often. so in my eyes its less reliable. cutscenes i can see as being useful, though some cases dont exactly fit.

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
i find it funny how you guys rely so heavily on so called "feats" when what you're all comparing are characters in a game. obviously the best comparison is to play both games, and weigh the effects and damage of abilities through gameplay. but made up fluff and filler about story seems to hold more sway on here.

maybe its just me, but i dont get it. seems silly, really. ignoring some of the shit the characters do in game because theres not an outside mythos to confirm they can do it in other mediums? the best thing i have to show as a display of dantes power, i cant find good clips of..

its an attack dante does in the first game, on the start of the last boss battle. the flying sequence. when he builds up his devil trigger gauge, and activates it. he launches a freakin demonic dragon of flame and energy. that thing tears through rock, lightning, energy lances, and even mundus and just keeps on going. its actually the only thing that does any real damage to mundus at all.

now.. based on everything i saw. dante couldnt touch mundus. period. until he unleashed his fullest demon powers. (as can be equated to virgil losing to mundus and becoming nelo angelo) the only time you could deal damage to him was in a dt state. all forms of firearms, and any blade strikes. were wholly and totally USELESS against him. the dude could sit in demonic magma like it was a bathtub of lukewarm water. and this dragon TORE over 1/3rd of that guys health out per shot. on harder difficulties. and all it took was 3 lit dt glyphs. O_o.

and mercer takes damage from those firearms that were completely useless against mundus. so.. i think mercers hosed.

Its because gameplay can be misleading, gameplay is designed to be fun and is a make up of numbers and data to make sure certain enemies take more heats than they should. For example in DMC, many enemies that should take only one hit, or indeed God of War have enemies that Kratos could kill in a strike survive a lot of punishment because theres no fun if you can just run through the game with ease.

That dragon is not that fast and would be easy to dodge. One jump from mercer tbh.

you have to realise that in that scene, its closing the distence on mundus, while both dante and mundus are flying at i dont know how fast speeds. so its faster than it looks.

but im sure mercer can dodge it. unless it homes in on him, like it did mundus. but at the same time, dante's faster than mercer. tricker style is a complete pain in the ass to catch.

Well we dont know how fast, it just looks like it smoving at about a few meters per second, thats not good enough when Mercer can cover the area the dragon can in its linear path in one jump.

Yes but still, the point I was making was the dragons not hitting him, while Dante is going to get all the more tired.

dante still has other weapons. ifrit, for one burns hotter than magma rivers in hell. as evident in its ability to shatter frost enemies whos ice forms are resistent to walking around in that blazing furnace. and the kick 13 hits faster than any combo ive seen mercer pull off. im still seeing the virus losing bio-mass compared to dante losing energy. so while dante will be getting tired. mercer is losing biomass. and dante can regen like nothing.. mercer needs biomass to heal. in a battle of attrition, mercers losing. so... yeah.

i still see it as;
city-scape, chock full of humans to eat. win goes to mercer.
barren battleground, no other life forms. win goes to dante.

I dont know about that but the kick 13 is irrelevent, a few kicks isnt going to take out Mercer and its going to tire out Dante. I told you, mercer does not lose biomass and this fight is set in central, hes got plenty of biomass unless its emptey and Dante loses stamina, devil energy when he uses special pwoers etc, Dante cant regen stamina though, he needs a little rest which Mercer wont give him so no, mercers not likely losing attrition wise, 10 minutes and Dantes out for the count, Mercer assuming he survives in the first 1-5 minutes stands tall, probably absorbs dante and goes home.

Maybe, purely because he has time powers and other magics that Mercer does not.

how is the kick 13 irrelevent? hes striking with 7-8 punches and kicks backed by hellfire burning and slamming itself into his opponant, in a timespan of 2 seconds or less. strikes which even in game break blocks that stop other attacks. and without the devil trigger, its essentially a chuck norris kick backed by hellfire.

and dante doesnt run out of stamina like a human does. ten minutes of sustained fighting wont leave him wasted like you think it does. in dmc3, he was tired after fighting hiw twin twice, and killing 4 boss-status demons, fighting and defeating a 5th, and dealing with his own brother twice. (his brother was stronger than he was, at the time, too) all while battling his way up a giant demon tower over the course of a few hours.

in dmc1, the only time hes out of breath is at the very end of the game, AFTER defeating every boss in the game 3 times, and battleing his way through a castle, a coloseum, a phantom mirror version of the same castle, a massive pirate ship and underwater river, and the underworld itself.

so.. ten minutes of fight leaves dante tired? lolwut? and i dont see how mercer doesnt lose biomass when damaged. seeing as how if he didnt, he wouldnt have been reduced to a puddle in the first place.
and was the fight actually in central? *goes back to check the first post*
so it is. awesome.

gotta say fight goes to mercer, then. as much as dantes gunna reduce his biomass and stomp him into shit, he can just regen by eating people over and over until he wears dante down.

Originally posted by Matthias Fenris
how is the kick 13 irrelevent? hes striking with 7-8 punches and kicks backed by hellfire burning and slamming itself into his opponant, in a timespan of 2 seconds or less. strikes which even in game break blocks that stop other attacks. and without the devil trigger, its essentially a chuck norris kick backed by hellfire.

and dante doesnt run out of stamina like a human does. ten minutes of sustained fighting wont leave him wasted like you think it does. in dmc3, he was tired after fighting hiw twin twice, and killing 4 boss-status demons, fighting and defeating a 5th, and dealing with his own brother twice. (his brother was stronger than he was, at the time, too) all while battling his way up a giant demon tower over the course of a few hours.

in dmc1, the only time hes out of breath is at the very end of the game, AFTER defeating every boss in the game 3 times, and battleing his way through a castle, a coloseum, a phantom mirror version of the same castle, a massive pirate ship and underwater river, and the underworld itself.

so.. ten minutes of fight leaves dante tired? lolwut? and i dont see how mercer doesnt lose biomass when damaged. seeing as how if he didnt, he wouldnt have been reduced to a puddle in the first place.
and was the fight actually in central? *goes back to check the first post*
so it is. awesome.

gotta say fight goes to mercer, then. as much as dantes gunna reduce his biomass and stomp him into shit, he can just regen by eating people over and over until he wears dante down.

Whats hellfire got to do with anything, unless you can prove its pretty incredible heat.

Erm, weve seen happen. Dante was fine before he faced Vergil for 5-10 mins in the same room. You trying to claim Dante was tired when he entered the room is unfounded.

You keep adding up everything hes done, you cant use the fact hes done a lot in the whole game to say that hes tired from things he did earlier on unless hes actually shown to be tired when he begins.

Canonically it does, possibly less. He got blasted away by a nuke, Dantes not got that much power, the fact the puddle was not incinerated is pretty impressive.

Which will take a few minutes, Mercer could probably infect him or use long range attacks and jumps to beat Dante. Dantes only hope for a short term victory is to go into Devil trigger.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Whats hellfire got to do with anything, unless you can prove its pretty incredible heat.

Uhhhh.... I'm not going to get back into this, but this particular point I have to address.

Ifrit's been stated to geterate flame temperatures far hotter than volcanic magma, and it is proven when he faces the Frost demons, which are said to be immune to anything weaker than ifrit, which includes all earthly flames and specifically mentions being immune to volcanic temperatures.

The games 4th data entry on Frost specifically says this:

Originally found in DMC1
"Although impervious even to volcanic fire, the frosts are weak to higher realms of incendiary. Use the hellfire of Ifrit to counter them."

Where does it say these things specifically? I would like to see its feats.

Also, fire aside which if I recall was in the form of a fireball, does ifrit create fire on the gauntlets? are all methods of its use useful to frost deamons? I would say Freezing is a better option.

Also, more importantly, why are we discussing DMC 1 dante? was it changed specifically to this Dante, I dont recall that in the thread.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Where does it say these things specifically? I would like to see its feats.

The enemy and weapon descriptions in game.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Also, fire aside which if I recall was in the form of a fireball, does ifrit create fire on the gauntlets? are all methods of its use useful to frost deamons?

Every attack using Ifrit generates flames, not just the projectiles. it actually has more attack damage than any other weapon in the game outside of the Sparda sword.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Also, more importantly, why are we discussing DMC 1 dante? was it changed specifically to this Dante, I dont recall that in the thread.

The OP didn't say which Dante was discussed, so I was under the impression it was Composite Dante.

I dont think we generally use a composite if nothing is said, I thought we used the latest version. E.g. if it was Kratos, it woud be GoW 3 Kratos typically used and I am not sure old DMC 1 weapons are what we would consider standard equipment for Dante anyway, Dante usually has just his sword Rebellion and E&I, special weapons from the last game he was in may be logical but I am not sure about DMC 1 and 3.

Meh, unless it's written, we usually utilise composite, at least thats what I've always done in my.... what 7 years here? *shrugs*

are you really trying to tell me that just because he walks into a door not breathing heavy, and ends his most recent fight tired, that its because he cant fight sustained for a few minutes? common sense dictates everything hes done prior to that on the same day effects stamina. you cant assume dante to be that weak based on one clip, when theres 4 (and soon to be 5 games) FILLED with other feats that say otherwise. its an excepted example of what he was going through. going through from his shop, down the street, up and down a massive tower, inside and out of a giant lethiavan demon, and battleing through bigger and tougher bosses and creatures than humans and mutants.

and.. BT, you just dropped a massive reveal. you asked if ifrit created flames with every attack. have you played both series of games?

Both series? I have played one DMC series from 1 to 4, when they cmae out so like 3/4 years ago, I never claimed I had a perfect memory, nobody here has apprently, I am still having to post things i have proven years ago.

Also theres nowhere that says Dante can fight for longer than 10 minutes or so and not get tired, wheras he rests between battles and gets tired half of the time at the end of them, mostly vs Vergil. Anyone who is any challenge at all wears him down, and Alex mercer imo is going to be some challenge, enough to say hes not going to be as easily killed as basic DMC mooks.

i thought for sure there was a prototype 2, so i mean both game series. and its hard to see posts made years ago as they're buried under pages and pages of other crap. so a recap is nice. what is it that you've already proven thats relevant to this?

and yeah, it is mostly virgil. and out of 3 fights with him, he was tired twice. once, because dante didnt have his powers awakened yet, and the other because of everything else he went through. and what rest? between boss fights, hes CONSTANTLY running and battling through more mooks.

and im going to argue that dmc mooks are ALOT tougher than prototype mooks. remember the shadow enemies in dmc1? or the death scythes? or the frosts. or the golems of dm2. or the demon tanks and chopper of dmc2.. and the list goes on and on, and on. wheres mercer deals with.. humans. humans with guns, that injure with rifle rounds. and humans with tanks and choppers. and just a few strains of mutants. hmmn.. can you compare both sets of mooks on dmd mode, and whatever the hardest mode of prototype is? (ive played like an hour of the game, and watched a few hours more played, i like the scythe arm thigny the most.)

I dont think Prototype 2 is out afaik, and nothing what I am refering to is relevent here I am just poting out the fact I am proving things concerning many characters I have argued and still have to prove it again and again due to poor memories.

Please, he walks around casually in most of his cutscenes, whenever you see him enetering a scene half of the time hes just walking cockily towards his next battle, and may I add, hes doing without any hint of being weary or tired, you cant claim hes tired all the time, including vs Vergil until you actually see it.

Mode is irrelevent as are the mooks, their still pretty worthless to both characters, Dante never seems to have problem and neither does Mercer although tbh, most of Dantes enemies are not much better than the Tanks and choppers (plus the sheer number of them, Mercer is constantly chased across teh city by said things) Dante faces. Sure their usually quicker and some are much larger but the general mooks are still no problem. Take Dante fighting the reaper things in DMC 3 intro, tehy dont bother him at all, same with the flying things as he runs down the tower....

But 5-10 mins with vergil? hes down for the count and both of them are too tired to not only face Jester but also completly overpower lady who blocked vergil without too much trouble. Also, before you put too much doubt on humans, lady who is a human iirc easily crushes most of the towers enemis as well.