Orbalisk Bane vs Sith Amulet Exar Kun · Star Wars Versus Forum

Lightsnake Senior Member

Originally posted by Eminence
"Merely" that his control over it would be greater.

Yes, merely. He can aim and direct them just fine. Is there evidence they'll be stronger than before?

Which doesn't change the fact that he wasn't moving so blindingly fast that Farfalla couldn't nail him.

Farfalla was standing on the sidelines, gathering energy while Bane was fighting Raskta. How is it relevant if the stasis isn't an energy attack? Yes it 'nailed' Bane, because nothing physicla actually bursts from Farfalla's hand
The indication is that it functions the exact same way as the majority of Force powers: projected at the opponent through line of sight.

Most force powers are not manifested as physical blasts from someone's hands, the stasis field is absolutely no different.

Uh, we can't measure any of them as "borderline instantaneous." Sith lightning can be tracked by the naked eye and evaded, even by low level Force users (Hetton vs. Bane). Telekinesis can be evaded by non-Force-sensitives [with exceptional reflexes]. Again, you need to stop pretending the gauntlet is this slow, cumbersome cannon that takes forever and ever to "aim and fire" and is horrendously taxing in some obscure, ambiguous manner. The argument's been null for three and a half years.

No, it hasn't. Start proving up how fast it is, because I hear Janus, Nai and IKC going on and on about it's instantaneous with precisely zero proof. It obviously isn't some cumbersome charging weapon, but the response time could easily be several seconds. Against an opponent Kun can't be said to be as fast against.
So, no, they're not borderline instantaneous. Why should the blasts move any faster than blasts other force users have tended to dodge?

WTF?
Guess that rules out Bane trying to run around the amulet blasts instead of being the bastard that he is and charging straight at puny Kun. Guess that rules out the Force crush, too.

Qordis might beg to differ on the latter. And unless Bane has encountered Sith amulets and we know exactly how he reacts there, as opposed to Kun's notable tendency to draw his saber almost every time he encounters an opponent, amulet or no.
I gathered.

And doing... what? Unless he has a moment to gather power, no attack he has is going to do much to Kun; the man isn't weak.

Just throwing out a force wave would either force Kun to defend himself or at least prevent any retaliation for a moment. Enough for Bane to launch a second attack.
If Kun misses the first shot why on earth is he going to be allowed a second? Bane gathers energy very fast.

Ordinarily? Probably. With the amulet enhancing Kun's telekinesis beyond his already "immensely powerful" levels? Doubt it.

Then it's too bad Kun's power can't be said to be equal to Bane's, or even on the same tier.
That, and it's amplifying his rage to focus through the gauntlet,s which doesn't say much for a focus on defense

Also, that'd be out of character for Bane. Oops.

In a battle where someone is trying to spam Sith energy blasts at him? If we go strictly IC, then Kun's just plain screwed

We're not going through this again, LS.
... Yeah. I'll keep that in mind for the next time you bring up Bane's lightning or telekinesis.

Bane's lightning nearly killed himself. Sure counts for something

No they don't. In this case, a direct hit by the Force blasts would be far worse than just about any other Force attack Bane could face down; even if the blasts somehow don't blow his head clean off, the orbalisks would drink in the dark side energy, go batshit crazy, and eat him alive.

Presumably. Assuming Kun can manage to hit him with the blasts while devoting all his time to offense against a faster, more powerful and smarter opponent.
If we're going strictly OOC here, what's to stop Bane from raising his arm and throwing a force wave/force crush at Kun before Kun so much as raises an arm? Unless you want to provide some evidence that Kun can hang with Bane in speed.

Eminence Boss

Dammit, stop replying so fast. I WILL WASTE YOU.

Later.

chilled monkey Senior Member

I think some people here are overestimating Bane's speed. If (as I suspect) they are going by Bane's rematch with Sirak then that really doesn't work.

First, Bane "hated" Sirak with a passion and wanted revenge on him. He doesn't have a personal grudge against Kun or want revenge against him so he won't get the same benefit.

Second, it was stated that he dragged the fight out, storing up energy and letting it bottle up before releasing it in a burst of power which granted him that sudden blinding speed. He won't be able to do that here because-

a) as stated he doesn't have a personal hate against Kun.
b) He won't be able to hold back, drag the fight out and store power against someone of Kun's level.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

Well, let's see.

Rage: Bane had a personal grudge against Sirak. Bane then allowed several Dark Side organisms to affix themselves to his body and feed off him, causing pain and amplifying dark side emotions. Adrenaline and strong emotions are all naturally much higher than in his younger self.

Energy: This preponderance of rage allows Bane to channel the Dark Side much more strongly, primarily because it forms a feedback loop between the Orbalisks and Bane himself. Bane's increased usage of the Dark side (fueled in part by the Orbalisks), especially during a battle, gives them a greater supply of energy to work with. Some of this energy is channeled back into Bane through hormones and further Dark Side energy, both of which serve to amplify his power. As his power increases, the Orbalisks have more to give back... etc.

So there is no reason to suppose that Bane in the Suit would be inferior in any way at any given time to his incarnation during PoD.

chilled monkey Senior Member

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
Well, let's see.
Rage: Bane had a personal grudge against Sirak. Bane then allowed several Dark Side organisms to affix themselves to his body and feed off him, causing pain and amplifying dark side emotions. Adrenaline and strong emotions are all naturally much higher than in his younger self.
Energy: This preponderance of rage allows Bane to channel the Dark Side much more strongly, primarily because it forms a feedback loop between the Orbalisks and Bane himself. Bane's increased usage of the Dark side (fueled in part by the Orbalisks), especially during a battle, gives them a greater supply of energy to work with. Some of this energy is channeled back into Bane through hormones and further Dark Side energy, both of which serve to amplify his power. As his power increases, the Orbalisks have more to give back... etc.
So there is no reason to suppose that Bane in the Suit would be inferior in any way at any given time to his incarnation during PoD.

Beg your pardon Red, but I NEVER said Orbalisk Bane was 'inferior.' I simply pointed out that the speed he displayed in the Sirak rematch was a one-off incident due to circumstances, not something he could do all the time.

My point was that Bane achieved that speed by dragging the fight out and bottling up his anger so that the power kept building and building until he finally let it go.

Again, I NEVER said Orbalisk Bane was 'inferior.'

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

I simply pointed out that the speed he displayed in the Sirak rematch was a one-off incident due to circumstances, not something he could do all the time.

And if he was unable to reach that speed again then his speed would be less than, or inferior to the aforementioned level of speed shown. Is your point not that we should not base Bane's speed off of the duel with Sirak?

Bane achieved that speed by dragging the fight out and bottling up his anger so that the power kept building and building until he finally let it go.

And under the influence and protection of the Orbalisks Bane would have no need to 'build his power.' He is amplified by them to a state far beyond his previous abilities.

Again, I NEVER said Orbalisk Bane was 'inferior.'

Again: if he has a lesser degree of discretionary speed (as you imply here:

I think some people here are overestimating Bane's speed. [based on the duel with Sirak]

If they are overestimating it then the reality would be that it is actually lower. You are claiming that Bane was faster during the duel with Sirak than he could be anywhere else (or else the use of Sirak was a non-sequitur & red herring) which would mean that his speed anywhere else is inferior to that against Sirak. Which would be false.

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

RoT
He could sense the creatures feeding on his power, gorging themselves on the dark side energies coursing through every fiber and cell of his being. But though they were parasites, they were also giving something back. As they fed, they pumped a constant stream of chemicals into his body. The alien fluids burned like acid as they were absorbed into his circulatory system; it felt as if every drop of blood were boiling ... but the benefits were too powerful to be ignored. In addition to his miraculous healing abilities, he felt stronger than he ever had. His senses were keener, his reflexes quicker. And on his chest and back where the creatures had latched on, their virtually impenetrable shells would serve as armor plates capable of withstanding even a direct strike from a lightsaber.

Through the gatekeeper, Bane learned of the Dark Master's experiments with the orbalisks, and his only partly successful efforts to control their power. He discovered not only what they were called, but also all the details of their ecology. Some of the information merely confirmed what he already knew: once attached to a host the orbalisks could not be removed. But he also learned that, in addition to boosting a host's physical abilities, it was possible to tap into the parasites' ability to feed on the dark side to greatly increase one's own command of the Force.

Bane reached inward to call upon the dark side, drawing it not only from himself but also from the orbalisks fastened to his chest and back. Feeling an incredible surge of power beyond any he had known before, he released it in a burst of energy. The hallucinations that had plagued his wounded mind ever since the detonation of the thought bomb vanished, instantly and utterly annihilated by his newfound power. He was stronger now than he ever had been, and he knew the visions of the dead Sith would haunt him no more.

Bane released his hold on the drexl's mind and concentrated his awareness on the terror of the other three riders. He drank in their fear, using it to fuel his own emotions. He focused his power and channeled it through the orbalisks, letting them gorge themselves on the dark side. In return they pumped a fresh dose of adrenaline and hormones into his blood, allowing him to generate even more power in a cycle he repeated over and over until the moment before impact.

The second quote is especially telling; Bane did not have to 'charge' his power the way he did to take out the Temple and he still managed to achieve a feat that was previously beyond him. These are just a few of the source quotes that show exactly how the orbalisks help Bane both physically and metaphysically. Now look at how they alter him in combat:

He [Bane] leapt forward and cut the first red-robed figure [an Umbaran Shadow Assassin] down before he-or she-had a chance to react, a single slash of his lightsaber bisecting the unfortunate opponent horizontally, just above the waist.

Gideon Restricted

Excellent.

You have done well, my apprentice.

Advent Just Leaving

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
Yes, the fact that the power will increase 1,000 times, then 10,000, then 100,000 and Kun will be able to control it. But there's no proof that he's mastered it either so....

Except for Kun's outright declaration that he would master everything Sadow had to offer, and when he confronts Aleema and Ulic, stating that she's a "pretender" and that he has mastered all of Sadow's knowledge. Subsequently, that's confirmed by Marka Ragnos, where he is proclaimed the Dark Lord of the Sith. I find this to be the nail on the coffin since the greatest and most powerful Sith Lord of the original Order would not choose an unworthy successor to the most valued position in the entire Sith legacy. Someone who hasn't even fully studied the ways of the Sith and all of their great powers being crowned (hence, Aleema being a pretender and Ulic being the apprentice)? It's just not accurate according to their traditions and what we know about them.

Of course, there's also the plethora of sourcebooks and other sources that state Kun had mastered the Sith teachings left by Sadow, but that's just no fun.

Yea. There's no evidence that he would be able to use it in a fight

But that doesn't mean he couldn't.

lolwut?

I don't know why you make up all of situations because people will just argue in circles with you. "Well if Kun can.." "But if Bane does...then Kun can't"..... See how dumb that is?

😆 That is true! XD

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Advent
[B]Except for Kun's outright declaration that he would master everything Sadow had to offer, and when he confronts Aleema and Ulic, stating that she's a "pretender" and that he has mastered all of Sadow's knowledge. Subsequently, that's confirmed by Marka Ragnos, where he is proclaimed the Dark Lord of the Sith. I find this to be the nail on the coffin since the greatest and most powerful Sith Lord of the original Order would not choose an unworthy successor to the most valued position in the entire Sith legacy. Someone who hasn't even fully studied the ways of the Sith and all of their great powers being crowned (hence, Aleema being a pretender and Ulic being the apprentice)? It's just not accurate according to their traditions and what we know about them.

See, this is where you and I disagree. The fact that you would use lightsnake logic for quotes involving "all" or "every", is troubling. We know that Palpatine didn't know every damn technique out there even if there is a quote saying something along those lines. Therefore, how can you possibly say that Kun mastered all of Sadow's teachings just because he said he did? Furthermore, I don't recall him saying he ever mastered Sadow's knowledge. Hell, right before he let his spirit loose, he was learning the technique, so there is nothing to suggest he mastered all of Sadow's teachings just because he said he did.

Now, Ragnos crowned him DLOTS. SO? That means he mastered Sadow's teachings? Explain how? And finally, I don't see how you can classify the amulet as a teaching of Sadow.

Gideon Restricted

I'm with you.

It might be due to sleep deprivation or the fact that Advent operates on some sort of logic that is beyond my understanding (unlikely, because she is a woman and thus inferior to myself), but I'm curious how Exar Kun's declarations that he mastered Naga Sadow's teachings has any bearing on this discussion. And how Marka Ragnos crowning him the Dark Lord of the Sith confirms it. Especially since Advent is wont to point out that the musings and quotes from fallible characters can't be taken at face value.

...

So, Advent. You face a choice: you will either explain your glaring double standard and logical blunder and face the brutal crowd that is KMC... or you will face the wrath of my minion, Captain REX.

(plz pretend that ur frightened for my ego plz.)

Advent Just Leaving

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
See, this is where you and I disagree. The fact that you would use lightsnake logic for quotes involving "all" or "every", is troubling.

I didn't realize stating facts was a patented brand of logic.

We know that Palpatine didn't know every damn technique out there even if there is a quote saying something along those lines.

Except there isn't a quote "along those lines", and there's a vast difference between mastering every technique known in the lore (a shitload of which wouldn't even be available) versus Sadow's virtual treasure vault that Kun access to, wouldn't you say?

Therefore, how can you possibly say that Kun mastered all of Sadow's teachings just because he said he did?

The problem I have with what you're saying here is that you used the "therefore", as if signifying something you said previously lead you to this conclusion. As shown above, you're comparing to distinctly different scenarios.

What you did overlook in my post was where I said that this is confirmed in the Jedi Academy Sourcebook, where it does state point-blank that Kun had learned "all there is to know of the Sith teachings of Naga Sadow", under the section of Sith Powers, on page 46 (IIRC).

That just nullifies your entire argument, which is why I didn't originally type just that. It's boring and a played-out tactic in the versus forum here.

What Ragnos said and Kun's words were not standalone points.

So why don't you provide some evidence that he hadn't mastered them fully? Since no one here has provided any damn proof of that assumption, but will continually question evidence (even if it's circumstantial). I find that an insult to very theory of argumentation.

Furthermore, I don't recall him saying he ever mastered Sadow's knowledge.

Kun: "His magician's power lives on. A power that could easily destroy me, unless I learn to master it. So master it I shall."

Later, against Aleema:

"But I have learned everything!".

It's interesting to note that Kun's dialogue where he says that if he doesn't master the powers laid before him, he won't be able to use it without putting his own life at risk.

Hell, right before he let his spirit loose, he was learning the technique, so there is nothing to suggest he mastered all of Sadow's teachings just because he said he did.

It was a technique that he had not performed before because it would have released him from his physical body. That doesn't mean he didn't know how to do it; clearly, he did. He just didn't know what would actually happen. What is interesting about that is that the ritual would have succeeded if it weren't for the concurrent Wall of Light that thousands upon thousands of Jedi used on the planet.

If this is the route you're subscribing to, I suppose Sadow didn't master his own knowledge either since he never killed himself.

Now, Ragnos crowned him DLOTS. SO? That means he mastered Sadow's teachings? Explain how?

Let's see: Marka Ragnos was the greatest of the Ancient Sith Lords, the true Sith Order, where power is valued above all else. The position of Dark Lord of the Sith is reserved for only the most powerful and capable and knowledgeable in the ways of the Sith. Like I said, according to Sith lore and tradition, it wouldn't make sense for someone who hadn't even mastered the Sith teachings to become the supreme ruler of the faction and have their name cemented in history.

You're going to sit there and tell me Marka Ragnos would have picked some random Sith who only knew half of his shit? Let me put it this way: do you think you would ever find an US Attorney General in history who didn't know jack shit about the law? Absolutely not. Like with the Sith Empire, the position is that important and prestigious that you wouldn't find a neophyte crowned.

And finally, I don't see how you can classify the amulet as a teaching of Sadow.

It was made by Sadow, it requires mastery to learn to use properly, ergo that process is a teaching of Sadow.

It might be due to sleep deprivation or the fact that Advent operates on some sort of logic that is beyond my understanding (unlikely, because she is a woman and thus inferior to myself),

Excuse me? Please, spare us the bullshit and bandwidth. I've had enough of your childish jabs that aren't even called for.

but I'm curious how Exar Kun's declarations that he mastered Naga Sadow's teachings has any bearing on this discussion.

Yes, if a suspect in a homicide case said that he was going to murder the victim in the same manner he was found murdered, that wouldn't have any relevance in the trial, would it?

And how Marka Ragnos crowning him the Dark Lord of the Sith confirms it. Especially since Advent is wont to point out that the musings and quotes from fallible characters can't be taken at face value.

They can't be taken at face value in cases where one character assumes to know more than he would logically have access to (that is, the thoughts and feelings of other characters) or if what the character thinks doesn't match up to what is actually shown or said in other sources. If you actually knew what you were talking about (and you don't), you'd realize that what Vader was thinking and Kun's thoughts occurred under totally different circumstances; not even comparable.

In Kun's case, he's not talking to anyone but his own self. He's stating what he will do and he had ample time to do such. Again, unless you're telling me that Kun was lying or that a prodigious individual who mastered more than three saber forms (including creating a new one from scratch) in less than a decade couldn't have done what he said, then what's your point? Kun has shown a hunger for knowledge of the Sith even as a Jedi, once he got his hands on it - I'd say he would have fully devoted himself to mastering it.

Not to mention, Kun's statements are backed up by statements from various sources. If you're referring to Ragnos, his fallibility doesn't have an effect on his traditions and beliefs when crowning a new Dark Lord.

So, Advent. You face a choice: you will either explain your glaring double standard and logical blunder and face the brutal crowd that is KMC... or you will face the wrath of my minion, Captain REX.

I find this forum in particular a haven to wannabe intellectuals, who Google "LOL LOGIC" and think they actually know what it is.

Your post was a clear case of that, "glaring double standard and logical blunder"? That's why I was...what's the word...right?

Now, I have to ask, are you still sour over what I said...a month ago? It appears you are because you were never this annoying to me before that.

WO Polaski Don't wanna die...

there are other women that post in here besides me?!?! there is a god! 😱

Red Nemesis The Blind Critic

I didn't realize stating facts was a patented brand of logic.

If you use it against him then any 'brand' of logic makes one a 'pseudointellectual.'

DS POST NOW!

Advent Just Leaving

Originally posted by WO Polaski
there are other women that post in here besides me?!?! there is a god! 😱

Yeah, it's a rarity. I believe there's only been like, 5 female posters in the history of this forum? O.O

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
If you use it against him then any 'brand' of logic makes one a 'pseudointellectual.'
DS POST NOW!

You know, I used to think you were a pompous jackass. Don't get me wrong, I still do, but the way you play the role moves you up a page or two in my book.

Advent Just Leaving

Originally posted by Advent
They can't be taken at face value in cases where one character assumes to know more than he would logically have access to (that is, the thoughts and feelings of other characters) or if what the character thinks doesn't match up to what is actually shown or said in other sources. If you actually knew what you were talking about (and you don't), you'd realize that what Vader was thinking and Kun's thoughts occurred under totally different circumstances; not even comparable.

To elaborate on my "glaring double standard", in Vader's case he was assessing the duel and Obi-Wan's position in it. For all we know, Obi-Wan was playing a feint getting ready for his spiritual release. That's why what Vader saw in the duel doesn't necessarily make it true, because he would have no idea what Obi-Wan was planning or if the duel was truly being shifted in his favor.

Kun was just making a goal for himself, and what he said was in relation to himself only. There's not much room for doubt in what he said, which is why it isn't the same thing.

Gideon Restricted

😕

You do realize all of that was said in jest, yes?

Advent Just Leaving

Originally posted by Gideon
😕
You do realize all of that was said in jest, yes?

😱

Oh.

Dr McBeefington Restricted

Originally posted by Advent
I didn't realize stating facts was a patented brand of logic.

I didn't realize double standards and the use certain words and concepts to benefit your argument=fact, but ok.
Except there isn't a quote "along those lines", and there's a vast difference between mastering every technique known in the lore (a shitload of which wouldn't even be available) versus Sadow's virtual treasure vault that Kun access to, wouldn't you say?

We don't really know how big Sadow's treasure vault was, do we now Advent? At any rate, it must have been tiny if he mastered it within 6 months of becoming DLOTS and dying.
The problem I have with what you're saying here is that you used the "therefore", as if signifying something you said previously lead you to this conclusion. As shown above, you're comparing to distinctly different scenarios.

I'm comparing what you would try to refer to as logical inferences.
What you did overlook in my post was where I said that this is confirmed in the Jedi Academy Sourcebook, where it does state point-blank that Kun had learned "all there is to know of the Sith teachings of Naga Sadow", under the section of Sith Powers, on page 46 (IIRC).

I don't have the JA sourcebook, I'll take a look later. But please, show me where Kun's amulet is referred to as a "teaching of Naga Sadow." Or are you going to tell me that you can logically infer as such?

So why don't you provide some evidence that he hadn't mastered them fully? Since [b]no one here has provided any damn proof of that assumption, but will continually question evidence (even if it's circumstantial). I find that an insult to very theory of argumentation.

Thanks for the pseudo intellectual psychobabble, but I'm afraid you're on the wrong forum for that. You haven't provided anything resembling evidence for Kun mastering the amulet other than "LOLZ HE SAID HE WILL DO IT!" and "we can infer..."

Kun: "His magician's power lives on. A power that could easily destroy me, unless I learn to master it. So master it I shall."

you're making my argument for me. Kun said he'll master it therefore he has? Rofl

Later, against Aleema:

"But I have learned everything!".

It's interesting to note that Kun's dialogue where he says that if he doesn't master the powers laid before him, he won't be able to use it without putting his own life at risk. [/quote]
Once again, you deserve a big ROFL for "LOlZ he said he will master it therefore he has!" I say i'm smarter than you, that must mean I am! And using the powers without putting his own life at risk? I'm glad you're again playing lightsnake and being's Kun's therapist. You don't know the details of the powers he knows, especially the amulet. Stop pretending you do.

It was a technique that he had not performed before because it would have released him from his physical body. That doesn't mean he didn't know how to do it; clearly, he did. He just didn't know what would actually happen. What is interesting about that is that the ritual would have succeeded if it weren't for the concurrent Wall of Light that thousands upon thousands of Jedi used on the planet.

You say that just because he didn't know what would happen doesn't mean he didn't know it, I say he didn't know what would happen because he didn't know it. Guess what though?! My theory is as plausible as yours.

If this is the route you're subscribing to, I suppose Sadow didn't master his own knowledge either since he never killed himself.

Yes, that's the route I'm following, says the girl whose argument is "He says he did it so he did".

Let's see: Marka Ragnos was the greatest of the Ancient Sith Lords, the true Sith Order, where power is valued above all else. The position of Dark Lord of the Sith is reserved for only the most powerful and capable and knowledgeable in the ways of the Sith. Like I said, according to Sith lore and tradition, it wouldn't make sense for someone who hadn't even mastered the Sith teachings to become the supreme ruler of the faction and have their name cemented in history.

Again with the bullshit psychology and baseless assumptions. How do you know that Kun just didn't happen to be the best candidate at the time? Where in the blue hell does it say you have to master certain sith teachings to be a DLOTS? By that argument, Kressh was a beast in the force because he was a DLOTS. Please stop listening assumed prerequisites.

You're going to sit there and tell me Marka Ragnos would have picked some random Sith who only knew half of his shit? Let me put it this way: do you think you would ever find an US Attorney General in history who didn't know jack shit about the law? Absolutely not. Like with the Sith Empire, the position is that important and prestigious that you wouldn't find a neophyte crowned.

No, I'm going to sit there and say what it looked like to the normal human being was Ragnos picking the guy that's has the most sith knowledge at the time of him finding and joining the amulet with Ulic.

It was made by Sadow, it requires mastery to learn to use properly, ergo that process is a teaching of Sadow.

1. MAYBE it was made by Sadow, MAYBE it wasn't. Stop assuming.
2. Really, you are trying too hard to make an inference. Here's one. There's no proof that he's mastered it since he never is shown to use it again. If you think he mastered it, prove it. Don't give feed me this bullshit, and label it as "LOGICS!!"

Excuse me? Please, spare us the bullshit and bandwidth. I've had enough of your childish jabs that aren't even called for.

Testy aren't we. Maybe if you perhaps learned how to make an argument using facts rather than bullshit, and spent less time talking about the intellect of this forum, you wouldn't have this problem.

Yes, if a suspect in a homicide case said that he was going to murder the victim in the same manner he was found murdered, that wouldn't have any relevance in the trial, would it?

How cute. NOW you're comparing suspects(homicide case), to absolute certainty(according to you in Kun's case). Either you're really mad, or you've lost site of the debate at hand because you're definitely off on a tangent.

They can't be taken at face value in cases where one character assumes to know more than he would logically have access to (that is, the thoughts and feelings of other characters) or if what the character thinks doesn't match up to what is actually shown or said in other sources. If you actually knew what you were talking about (and you don't), you'd realize that what Vader was thinking and Kun's thoughts occurred under totally different circumstances; not even comparable.

Except you're trying to tell us what Kun was thinking. I need facts, not psychoanalysis.

In Kun's case, he's not talking to anyone but his own self. He's stating what he will do and he had ample time to do such. Again, unless you're telling me that Kun was lying or that a prodigious individual who mastered more than three saber forms (including creating a new one from scratch) in less than a decade couldn't have done what he said, then what's your point? Kun has shown a hunger for knowledge of the Sith even as a Jedi, once he got his hands on it - I'd say he would have fully devoted himself to mastering it.

And Kun was also an arrogant douchebag, what is your point? The fact that he had no further use of the amulet according to evidence we HAVE, tells me he had no reason to attempt to master it.

Not to mention, Kun's statements are backed up by statements from various sources. If you're referring to Ragnos, his fallibility doesn't have an effect on his traditions and beliefs when crowning a new Dark Lord.

Various applicable sources=?

I find this forum in particular a haven to wannabe intellectuals, who Google "LOL LOGIC" and think they actually know what it is.

Judging by your recent argument, I find your hypocrisy rather humorous. Instead of pretending you're smarter than people like an antisocial pseudo intellectual, perhaps you could form an argument based purely on facts, or at the very least, enough circumstantial evidence from which we can draw references. In the meantime, nobody cares about your whining.

Gideon Restricted

Originally posted by Advent
😱
Oh.

Yeah...