Orbalisk Bane vs Sith Amulet Exar Kun

Started by Red Nemesis6 pages

😮

I'm not actually sure how to respond to that. I wasn't aware we'd had enough interaction to form an opinion? I mean, I did half heartedly grammar nazi you a while ago (meta-humor doesn't work if the target doesn't stick around) but other than that I've never said anything to you.

*is insecure*

Originally posted by Gideon
Yeah...
Your humor is difficult to decipher. It's like those times you called me fat and a moron and a leech or something. I was upset. And then I made sure to make sure you were kidding and you were, so I wiped my tearssmiled.

Originally posted by Eminence
Your humor is difficult to decipher. It's like those times you called me fat and a moron and a leech or something. I was upset. And then I made sure to make sure you were kidding and you were, so I wiped my tearssmiled.

The clues to my sarcasm were well placed to make the whole thing rather obvious. In order for her to have assumed that I was serious, she must have seriously thought I was both a misogynist and able to command REX.

Originally posted by Gideon
The clues to my sarcasm were well placed to make the whole thing rather obvious. In order for her to have assumed that I was serious, she must have seriously thought I was both a misogynist and able to command REX.
I thought she was pissed at the thing about her "double standards" and "logical blunder."

Originally posted by Eminence
I thought she was pissed at the thing about her "double standards" and "logical blunder."

You'd think.

And, truth be told, I've yet to see any reason that would indicate that Exar Kun's words need to be taken at face value. He is, after all, a lying, duplicitious Sith Lord. I'm also confused as to why Marka Ragnos crowning him the Dark Lord of the Sith has any bearing on Kun somehow mastering all of Sadow's techniques. It could easily be explained that Kun was simply the most powerful aspirant alive with the most knowledge available; not that he mastered everything.

And lastly,

Originally posted by Advent
Let's see: Marka Ragnos was the greatest of the Ancient Sith Lords, the true Sith Order, where power is valued above all else. The position of Dark Lord of the Sith is reserved for only the most powerful and capable and knowledgeable in the ways of the Sith.

I'd argue that the true Sith Order was the one that both enjoyed the recognition of previous Sith and accomplished the goals of the Sith.

Which would be Bane's Order.

(I had to throw that in there.)

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
[snip]

I'll deal with your absolute nonsense later. In the meantime, enjoy a nice big cup of your favorite brew!

Originally posted by Gideon
The clues to my sarcasm were well placed to make the whole thing rather obvious. In order for her to have assumed that I was serious, she must have seriously thought I was both a misogynist and able to command REX.

That doesn't seem far from the truth. At least the part about REX. Did you forget all those nights he spent chained up in the basement?

I...

Um...

Touche.

Originally posted by Advent

I'll deal with your absolute nonsense later. In the meantime, enjoy a nice big cup of your favorite brew!

How cute. Snip? ROFL. Not too bright. But i have one of my own for you. See if you can use your amazing inference skills.

Originally posted by Advent

I'll deal with your absolute nonsense later. In the meantime, enjoy a nice big cup of your favorite brew!

Lol advent, i notice you kind of like posting this poster in particular when you get a little irritated.

Apparently, you do or you wouldn't have responded. Then again, your picture does say nobody cares. Unless, using my super inference skills, you're supposed to be the tumbleweed.

Originally posted by Advent
Apparently, you do or you wouldn't have responded. Then again, your picture does say nobody cares. Unless, using my super inference skills, you're supposed to be the tumbleweed.

Nope, but that doesn't surprise me coming from someone of your abilities. It means nobody cares if you're upset or if you're going to respond later. It also means if you have a problem, twitter about it or write it in your feelings diary.

^toodumbtodie.

And that'll conclude my part of childish banter for the night.

Originally posted by Advent
^toodumbtodie.
crylaugh

Originally posted by Advent
^[b]toodumbtodie.

And that'll conclude my part of childish banter for the night. [/B]

Oh I forgot. When you're mad, irrational, and just totally make a fool out of yourself, call me TDTD!!! That didn't work for Nai and it doesn't work for you. But please, humor this forum some more.

Originally posted by Dr McBeefington
I didn't realize double standards and the use certain words and concepts to benefit your argument=fact, but ok.

Care to point out this "double standard" or are you just tossing out random words you've heard across this forum? As you're always quick to call something invalid without actually providing the proof. Right now is no different as anyone can see from reading your post.

Fact is, what I said it was: that Kun had mastered all of Naga Sadow's notes. That's established fact according to the JA Academy sourcebook, and backed up by the actual source material itself.

We don't really know how big Sadow's treasure vault was, do we now Advent? At any rate, it must have been tiny if he mastered it within 6 months of becoming DLOTS and dying.

First off, we're shown a picture of the treasures themselves, it's established to be rather big. We know there was tons and tons of Sith lore and abilities contained in there. According to the Tales of the Jedi Sourcebook that states Nadd knew all the powers listed in the book, and he learned them from Sadow.

Now, if you're questioning the size of what was stored on Yavin IV since it only took six months to master, you're failing to forget vital pieces of the character we're talking about. Exar Kun mastered at least three separate forms of lightsaber combat (single blade, Jar'Kai, double-bladed) in less than a decade, as it's stated that Jedi during that age did not start training until their teens and Kun was still in his 20's. And one of those saber forms happened to be created and mastered within six months, even though it was invented with pure scratch.

Kun's learning potential is quite clearly shown to be among the most gifted of the entire mythological, on par with people like Bane. So, unless you can show me what states he didn't other than your say-so, I'm not sure why you're even arguing.

I'm comparing what you would try to refer to as logical inferences.

Except there is nothing logical about anything you're comparing. You're taking Sidious supposedly knowing "all techniques" (a quote that doesn't even exist), some of which wouldn't have even been available for him to learn versus Kun being able to master the stuff that he had total access to.

Care to point out the logic in that?

I don't have the JA sourcebook, I'll take a look later. But please, show me where Kun's amulet is referred to as a "teaching of Naga Sadow." Or are you going to tell me that you can logically infer as such?

Thanks for the pseudo intellectual psychobabble, but I'm afraid you're on the wrong forum for that. You haven't provided anything resembling evidence for Kun mastering the amulet other than "LOLZ HE SAID HE WILL DO IT!" and "we can infer..."

Are you serious? I've established that Kun learned all there is to know from Sadow. I've established that the amulet's functionality requires a process of learning, ergo my proof is that since he mastered all, it logically follows that he would have mastered the amulet beam. Especially since he states that he couldn't control or direct it, he would need to learn how. He's even shown with a second gauntlet that he would have had to build himself. So, why wouldn't he know this, hm?

It's hilarity at its best when you say I haven't provided anything yet your entire post is void of any meat to back up your unsupported assertions. I dare you to go through this post that you made and show the forum where the evidence is for your side.

This should be fun when I get a response of "etc, etc, etc, etc" instead of what I asked.

Once again, you deserve a big ROFL for "LOlZ he said he will master it therefore he has!" I say i'm smarter than you, that must mean I am!

Wow, I can see your own logic flying over your head like Superman. Is Kun stating a personal goal in any way remotely close to saying something that would require a comparison of two people's intelligence?

And using the powers without putting his own life at risk? I'm glad you're again playing lightsnake and being's Kun's therapist.

I'm using Kun's own words. I suppose he doesn't know what he's talking about either considering he said the gauntlet almost destroyed him, and that the other powers would as well.

Kun isn't a Jedi or anything, he couldn't possibly know more about the Force than say you or me. That'd just be ridiculous! [/sarcasm]

You don't know the details of the powers he knows, especially the amulet. Stop pretending you do.

[Lex Luthor]WRONG!!![/Lex Luthor]

That's why there's an entire section in the Dark Side Sourcebook that's devoted to explaining the history and function of the Sith amulets. Please, try to know what you are talking about. GG, tdtd.

You say that just because he didn't know what would happen doesn't mean he didn't know it, I say he didn't know what would happen because he didn't know it. Guess what though?! My theory is as plausible as yours.

You apparently don't understand that the ritual (see: not offensive, defensive or passive Force ability) would destroy one's physical body. Therefore, no one who knew the technique could possibly know for sure what happens.

Like I said, Sadow wasn't a master of his knowledge? Are you dense?

Yes, that's the route I'm following, says the girl whose argument is "He says he did it so he did".

Strawman argument, logical fallacy (that's my whole argument? Why did I provide proof in the form of a direct sourcebook quote and you acknowledge it?).

Red herring, logical fallacy (this has what to do with the fact you think Sadow didn't master his own knowledge? Proof?).

Again with the bullshit psychology and baseless assumptions. How do you know that Kun just didn't happen to be the best candidate at the time? Where in the blue hell does it say you have to master certain sith teachings to be a DLOTS? By that argument, Kressh was a beast in the force because he was a DLOTS. Please stop listening assumed prerequisites.

Kressh wasn't crowned by Marka Ragnos, in fact, Ragnos did not think he was worthy enough since he didn't name him the successor. Then, the rest of the Sith-who were divided in faction at the time- decided to follow Kressh because Sadow had put the entire Order in jeopardy by attacking the Republic.

Kressh crowned himself Dark Lord of the Sith, and considering he and Sadow were noted as the "two most powerful Sith under Ragnos", the Sith couldn't do much about it but accept it.

But to get to your point: the "best candidate"? What the hell. I'm sure an order obsessed with power and influence would settle for less in the greatest position that can be held.

No, I'm going to sit there and say what it looked like to the normal human being was Ragnos picking the guy that's has the most sith knowledge at the time of him finding and joining the amulet with Ulic.

I guess that means Aleema could have been crowned Dark Lord of the Sith. Or any neophyte dark sider for that matter, presuming they get two amulets together and Ragnos springs forth (as that's what the amulets were designed to do, as well). Prove up on that.

1. MAYBE it was made by Sadow, MAYBE it wasn't. Stop assuming.

Tell me where Kun got the knowledge to build a second gauntlet with the same design and a Sith amulet? He's shown on-panel to be wearing two separate Sith gauntlets. I'm not assuming anything, you're just assuming I am.

2. Really, you are trying too hard to make an inference. Here's one. There's no proof that he's mastered it since he never is shown to use it again. If you think he mastered it, prove it. Don't give feed me this bullshit, and label it as "LOGICS!!"

This is downright trolling, you keep saying the same thing over and over without any explanations.

How cute. NOW you're comparing suspects(homicide case), to absolute certainty(according to you in Kun's case). Either you're really mad, or you've lost site of the debate at hand because you're definitely off on a tangent.

Were you dropped on your head as a child? Maybe intentionally? Gideon said that he didn't see how Kun's own thoughts were relevant. As said, while it may be circumstantial evidence, that should still be brought up. In a court case, circumstantial evidence is still regarded as evidence, provided it supports the conclusion.

I stated quite clearly that what Kun said and Ragnos' crowning of him were not standalone points. L2Read.

And Kun was also an arrogant douchebag, what is your point? The fact that he had no further use of the amulet according to evidence we HAVE, tells me he had no reason to attempt to master it.

Kun isn't a master of Force lightning then since he's never shown to use it, despite the fact he's listed as being such in the DS Sourcebook. You were saying?

In the meantime, nobody cares about your whining.

Apparently, you do or you wouldn't have responded.

I mean really, in a US court of law a person's testimony would be taken at face value unless there was something questionable about it, and that could be either proved or damper the certainty of their words. What shows that Kun was lying or that he didn't do what he said?

Originally posted by Advent
I mean really, in a US court of law a person's testimony would be taken at face value unless there was something questionable about it, and that could be either proved or damper the certainty of their words. What shows that Kun was lying or that he didn't do what he said?

No sweetheart, it just shows how little you know about US law. There's circumstantial evidence and there's direct evidence, and those two aren't even discussed until the person's credibility has been tested and proven.

I'll get back to the rest of this after today's matches.

Originally posted by Advent
[B]Care to point out this "double standard" or are you just tossing out random words you've heard across this forum? As you're always quick to call something invalid without actually providing the proof. Right now is no different as anyone can see from reading your post.

I love when you try to appeal to a majority that doesn't exist. I'm sure you've been taught this by your counselor or therapist, but you need to speak for yourself. And you're the last one that should tell me to provide proof, as Kun's therapist. The double standard comes when you or an antedeluvian have different standards of evidence for an ancient sith, and then for someone of the PT.

Fact is, what I said it was: that Kun had mastered all of Naga Sadow's notes. That's established fact according to the JA Academy sourcebook, and backed up by the actual source material itself.

It's actually not backed up by any source material. Please post the exact quote again from the "JA Academy sourcebook". Nice redundancy rofl. Since you like to throw in your pseudointellectual nonsense in the form of "lolz fallacy", i'll correct your bullshit spelling mistakes🙂

First off, we're shown a picture of the treasures themselves, it's established to be rather big. We know there was tons and tons of Sith lore and abilities contained in there. According to the Tales of the Jedi Sourcebook that states Nadd knew all the powers listed in the book, and he learned them from Sadow.

Great! Nadd also had a hell of a lot more than 6 months of study time.

Now, if you're questioning the size of what was stored on Yavin IV since it only took six months to master, you're failing to forget vital pieces of the character we're talking about. Exar Kun mastered at least three separate forms of lightsaber combat (single blade, Jar'Kai, double-bladed) in less than a decade, as it's stated that Jedi during that age did not start training until their teens and Kun was still in his 20's. And one of those saber forms happened to be created and mastered within six months, even though it was invented with pure scratch.

Except according to JvS, he didn't create the saber from "pure scratch". Where does it say that he mastered 3 forms? Or are you speculating?

Kun's learning potential is quite clearly shown to be among the most gifted of the entire mythological, on par with people like Bane. So, unless you can show me what states he didn't other than your say-so, I'm not sure why you're even arguing.

Again, 6 months of studying=/=mastering. And wasn't your premise that because he said he'll master the amulet, he did?

Except there is nothing logical about anything you're comparing. You're taking Sidious supposedly knowing "all techniques" (a quote that doesn't even exist), some of which wouldn't have even been available for him to learn versus Kun being able to master the stuff that he had total access to.

Care to point out the logic in that?


Actually the quote DOES exist. I'll ask LS or Gideon, as they've posted it plenty of times. What exactly wasn't available for Palpatine? He had more to work with than any other force user at any time.

Are you serious? I've established that Kun learned all there is to know from Sadow. I've established that the amulet's functionality requires a process of learning, ergo my proof is that since he mastered all, it logically follows that he would have mastered the amulet beam. Especially since he states that he couldn't control or direct it, he would need to learn how. He's even shown with a second gauntlet that he would have had to build himself. So, why wouldn't he know this, hm?

ROFL. No, you've asserted that Sadow created the amulet, and that it required learning, through fallacious reasoning. And as usual, you're skirting around the issue, which is you have NO proof that he mastered it, or even needed to.

It's hilarity at its best when you say I haven't provided anything yet your entire post is void of any meat to back up your unsupported assertions. I dare you to go through this post that you made and show the forum where the evidence is for your side.

Is denial a defense mechanism of EVERY girl? Or are you just unique?

Wow, I can see your own logic flying over your head like Superman. Is Kun stating a personal goal in any way remotely close to saying something that would require a comparison of two people's intelligence?

Yes, logic is flowing over MY head, says the girl who believes someone did something because he said he would. Try again schnucumbs.

I'm using Kun's own words. I suppose he doesn't know what he's talking about either considering he said the gauntlet almost destroyed him, and that the other powers would as well.

Great! If Kun said he was the greatest force user ever you'd believe him too? The fact that he said he'll master it doesn't mean he did.

Kun isn't a Jedi or anything, he couldn't possibly know more about the Force than say you or me. That'd just be ridiculous! [/sarcasm]

Kun is also arrogant and not omnipotent.

[Lex Luthor]WRONG!!![/Lex Luthor]

I was waiting for you to start using the "I'm going to attempt to be witty like Nai to hide the fact that I can't debate using facts" defense. Finally.

That's why there's an entire section in the Dark Side Sourcebook that's devoted to explaining the history and function of the Sith amulets. Please, try to know what you are talking about. GG, tdtd.

Thanks Nai. As I said, next to conceding the fact that you can't argue your way out of traffic ticket, you'll resort to riding someone else's coattails and calling me tdtd. Again, your defense mechanisms are amusing at best, incredibly sad at worst.

You apparently don't understand that the ritual (see: not offensive, defensive or passive Force ability) would destroy one's physical body. Therefore, no one who knew the technique could possibly know for sure what happens.

This is ridiculous. You're assuming there's NO way to know what it does just because it destroys the physical body. How about the fact that it's possible that Kun DIDNT know the technique. Or the fact that Sadow DID write what would happen? Your logic is hilarious.

Like I said, Sadow wasn't a master of his knowledge? Are you dense?

Define "his knowledge" please. What exactly is "his" knowledge, and what "knowledge" did he pick up from scrolls, amulets, holocrons. You don't get points for ambiguity.

Red herring, logical fallacy (this has what to do with the fact you think Sadow didn't master his own knowledge? Proof?).

Baseless assumption. Prove what knowledge of Sadow's was his, and what wasn't, unless you're asserting that everything Sadow knew, he mastered.

Kressh wasn't crowned by Marka Ragnos, in fact, Ragnos did not think he was worthy enough since he didn't name him the successor. Then, the rest of the Sith-who were divided in faction at the time- decided to follow Kressh because Sadow had put the entire Order in jeopardy by attacking the Republic.

ROFL. You have NO idea what Marka Ragnos thought, or the circumstances surrounding his death. Omg maybe he died before crowning someone?!!! Are you this retarded all the time or just when arguing star wars? How do you even know they chose their successors? If I recall correctly, they challenge the DLOTS, or murder the DLOTS before becoming the DLOTS. Kun was crowned from an amulet of Ragnos' spirit 1,000 years later, when Kun is the only sith. Nice try though.

Kressh crowned himself Dark Lord of the Sith, and considering he and Sadow were noted as the "two most powerful Sith under Ragnos", the Sith couldn't do much about it but accept it.

Weird. As i recall, there was a sith emperor who lived for over 1,400 years. Maybe Sadow and Kressh WERENT the two most powerful ones.

But to get to your point: the "best candidate"? What the hell. I'm sure an order obsessed with power and influence would settle for less in the greatest position that can be held.

Really? Lets see.
Choice 1: Kun
Choice 2: Nobody.
Yea, definitely Advent.

I guess that means Aleema could have been crowned Dark Lord of the Sith. Or any neophyte dark sider for that matter, presuming they get two amulets together and Ragnos springs forth (as that's what the amulets were designed to do, as well). Prove up on that.

See best candidate.

Tell me where Kun got the knowledge to build a second gauntlet with the same design and a Sith amulet? He's shown on-panel to be wearing two separate Sith gauntlets. I'm not assuming anything, you're just assuming I am.

No, you're assuming he mastered the amulet/amulets, you're assuming they were Sadow's design and Sadow's amulets, etc.

Were you dropped on your head as a child? Maybe intentionally? Gideon said that he didn't see how Kun's own thoughts were relevant. As said, while it may be circumstantial evidence, that should still be brought up. In a court case, circumstantial evidence is still regarded as evidence, provided it supports the conclusion.

But YOURE claiming it supports the conclusion. I'm telling you it doesn't, because it could go either way, HENCE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. Open a book. Not to mention, the only way it would be remotely admissable is if Kun's credibility is flawless.

Kun isn't a master of Force lightning then since he's never shown to use it, despite the fact he's listed as being such in the DS Sourcebook. You were saying? [/B]

Nice try Advent. So you're asserting that i'm claiming an absence of proof is proof of absence. I'm claiming that absence of proof can be taken either way, while you're claiming that because Kun said he'll master something, he did. You're retarded.