Solid Snake vs Sam Fisher

Actually, it does contribute to it because it's not so much that he doesn't need his stealth as it is that he simply doesn't rely on environmental advantages such as the shadows as often as Sam does in his games. That, however, works more in favor of Snake's sheer versatility in the department of stealth, coupled with his overall superior physicality, experience, combat skills, improvisational stealth skills, technology, and alertness. Hiding in snow is the only irrelevant thing when the opponent can't even be seen when STANDING thanks to just half of the aforementioned advantages.

snake isnt beating sam fisher in a battle of stealth. theres no way no how.

snake has never fought someone that he actually couldnt ever see the entire time he was fighting him. snake honestly cant sneak his way out of a paper bag anyway. so his only chance for victory here is to do his usual chris redfield style PIS his way to victory.

Originally posted by First_Tsurugi06
Actually, it does contribute to it because it's not so much that he doesn't need his stealth as it is that he simply doesn't rely on environmental advantages such as the shadows as often as Sam does in his games. That, however, works more in favor of Snake's sheer versatility in the department of stealth, coupled with his overall superior physicality, experience, combat skills, improvisational stealth skills, technology, and alertness. Hiding in snow is the only irrelevant thing when the opponent can't even be seen when STANDING thanks to just half of the aforementioned advantages.

Snake does not beat Sam in stealth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that Sam has more experience than Snake as well.

You'll have to be more convincing than this if you want me to buy that Snake would beat Sam in the first battle. Snake just isn't prepared to fight one such as Sam. He's never fought one so dangerous. I'll also remind myself with the fact that unlike many of Snake's other opponents, Sam isn't arrogant and talkative. He goes in, puts a bullet between their eyes and move out.

Sam will be tougher to beat than any previous foe Snake has fought. This DESPITE Snake having fought metahumans while Sam is mere human.

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
snake has never fought someone that he actually couldnt ever see the entire time he was fighting him.

none of those people were completely invisible the entire like i said though. they played with him and talked and became visible at certain times throughout the fight.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]Snake does not beat Sam in stealth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that Sam has more experience than Snake as well.

You'll have to be more convincing than this if you want me to buy that Snake would beat Sam in the first battle. Snake just isn't prepared to fight one such as Sam. He's never fought one so dangerous. I'll also remind myself with the fact that unlike many of Snake's other opponents, Sam isn't arrogant and talkative. He goes in, puts a bullet between their eyes and move out.

Sam will be tougher to beat than any previous foe Snake has fought. This DESPITE Snake having fought metahumans while Sam is mere human. [/B]

as for snake never fighting someone as dangerous and sam.....have you played any of the mgs games? every single person snake fights is more dangerouse than sam, just because sam doesnt mess around doesnt mean he is more dangerous, i just dont see how you can think that sam is more dangerouse than i dont know, ocelot, who is a master of the quickdraw with amazing aim being able to hit targets that arent in his line of sight, raven, a huge and i mean HUGE man carrying a mass of amunition for his minigun on his back that weighs easily over 500 lbs, liquid snake, well this isnt really a good example other than he is "supposed" to be stronger than snake, big boss, THE master of stealth and hand to hand combate, and he defeted him twice. there are more but i think i made my point

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
none of those people were completely invisible the entire like i said though. they played with him and talked and became visible at certain times throughout the fight.

Originally posted by menokokoro
[B]sooo, can sam make himself invisible now?

yeah he can. he does it all the time. he doesnt just bend light and become "invisible" like a predator. he actually becomes invisible.

and does his presance remain a mistery when he attacks?

this isnt a video game where snake has a health bar. one bullet will kill him. sam has a gun. he uses his invisibility and stealth to simply get in range then, without saying a word and without playing around with snake he just shoots him in the head. snake is dead, the end.

alright, i apologize for not looking at the first post and what is currently being argued.

first off, it is true that the stealth mechanics in splinter cell are better than in mgs, however that does not mean that snake is not as good at stealth as sam, all that means is that the gameplay is different between the games, snake is AT LEAST as talented in the art of stealth as sam as far as feats of stealth go they are about the same, now combate snake wins easily

Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
snake isnt beating sam fisher in a battle of stealth. theres no way no how.

snake has never fought someone that he actually couldnt ever see the entire time he was fighting him. snake honestly cant sneak his way out of a paper bag anyway. so his only chance for victory here is to do his usual chris redfield style PIS his way to victory.

Except for Gray Fox, Laughing Octopus, etc. If Snake can sneak his way out of the sights of twelve-foot cybernetic sensory robots that render human soldiers nigh-obsolete, an aging CIA agent isn't gonna be a hassle to overcome.

Originally posted by Phantom Miria
[b]Snake does not beat Sam in stealth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that Sam has more experience than Snake as well.

You'll have to be more convincing than this if you want me to buy that Snake would beat Sam in the first battle. Snake just isn't prepared to fight one such as Sam. He's never fought one so dangerous. I'll also remind myself with the fact that unlike many of Snake's other opponents, Sam isn't arrogant and talkative. He goes in, puts a bullet between their eyes and move out.

Sam will be tougher to beat than any previous foe Snake has fought. This DESPITE Snake having fought metahumans while Sam is mere human. [/B]

Hardly. Snake's missions not only pit him in more dire situations, but only ever canonically invovled him out of stealth in said situations were when he encountered someone his mission said for. Number of years on the job doesn't mean jack when the one's job involved two-fold what the other's did.

I've yet to see anything that suggests Sam is more dangerous than 1. A cybernetically super-powered Ninja that treats characters like Sam as fodder. 2. Thirty-foot mechs with gatling guns, lasers, and missile launching capabilities. 3. Teams of elite female soldiers with enhanced senses and agility. Throwing around the A>B>C logic does nothing when Snake outright shows he's more than capable of combating these things with his sheer techniques in both combat and stealth. The closest thing to talkative arrogance that Snake had ever faced was his biological double/genetically superior twin brother. Everyoen else usually descended upon Snake in near-bloodlust. Sam is at best on the level of the Genome Soldiers from Shadow Moses Island.

Until you can actually show some form of implication beyond a scenario in which Snake has done better (ie the snow storm you seem so faithful in to the point of redundance) that claim is completely groundless. Snake in his prime is practically a low-level metahuman in his own right in virtually every physical field.

I don't think they're debating Sam in hand to hand combat against Snake. I believe they're debating that he is more stealthy than Snake.

Dire situations and incredibly powerful opponents do not matter. I've never played a Sam Fisher game, but I believe his entire objective is to infiltrate, complete his mission, and leave unnoticed. Which he does to the best of my knowledge.

Nor am I. I'm debating on how Snake's overall superiority in every field renders Sam's stealth skills moot in the long run. Said dire situations DO matter because in such situations, Snake has been in similar scenarios, and they were never his stickiest situations.

I'm not seeing how being able to run faster, bench press more, and take more punches renders an inability to find your opponent moot.

Because Sam has even LESS ability to locate Snake. That, and Snake has shown better in terms of sheer awareness, and acting upon things such as ambushes.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'm not seeing how being able to run faster, bench press more, and take more punches renders an inability to find your opponent moot.