Team DC vs Team Marvel

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Well, then I guess Flash can't run? His powers are through the SF. What is this is just neutral ground where EVERYONE can use their powers? Makes things a bit more fare.

It doesnt have anything to do with him running, I said that flash shouldnt be able to steal anyone speed from marvel since they're not connected to the speed force.

Everything in dc is connected to the speed force, thats why it shouldnt be a problem for him to steal speed from wonder woman, supes, orion, etc... but since silver surfer, etc... dont have any connection with the speed force and flash is a speed force stealer...... you get the point.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So what you're trying to say is that because the Speed Force exists in the DCU, and not in the Marvel Universe, it wouldn't affect those from Marvel?

I assume in a neutral battle field, one's abilities should be in full play regardless. It's only fair.

I mean, going by that, wouldn't one be able to make an argument that the Living Tribunal wouldn't be nearly as powerful against someone from the DCU than it would from Marvel, since the Living Tribunal is so powerful in the Marvel Universe because of it's position, power and authority granted by the "The One Above All" who is basically Marvel, but it wouldn't be able to excercise that authorize and power against someone from DCU as it would against someone from Marvel? Not exactly a good analogy, but it's the first one to came to mind off the top of my head.....

srug

Its different, flash cant steal something away from someone when they dont have it.

How is flash going to steal the speed force from surfer when the surfer isnt even connected by it. Thats something dc came up with, everything in dc being a part of the speed force but dc rules doesnt apply to marvel rules.

As long as that being has kinetic energy, it's ok.

if the flash cant use the speed force to affect people from marvel since it only exists in dc would the silver surfer not be able to affect the dc characters since his power is derived form the power cosmic which doesn't exist in the dcu?

Originally posted by Raptor22
if the flash cant use the speed force to affect people from marvel since it only exists in dc would the silver surfer not be able to affect the dc characters since his power is derived form the power cosmic which doesn't exist in the dcu?

Originally posted by carver9
Its different, flash cant steal something away from someone when they dont have it.

How is flash going to steal the speed force from surfer when the surfer isnt even connected by it. Thats something dc came up with, everything in dc being a part of the speed force but dc rules doesnt apply to marvel rules.

His not stealing the Speed Force, he steals motion/kinetic energy and so on, which exists in the Marvel Universe as well, it's just that in the DCU, the Speed Force governs it all unlike in Marvel.

In a neutral area, I don't see why this ability wouldn't work.

It's difficult finding a good analogy while putting in this much effort. Let's take the Phoenix Force, it is basically the representation of life/death in the Marvel Universe, and can tap into the life force etc. According to that logic couldn't an argument be made, that the Phoenix Force, couldn't directly steal life/resurrect someone from the DC, because in the DCU, the Phoenix Force doesn't exist?

Originally posted by Raptor22
if the flash cant use the speed force to affect people from marvel since it only exists in dc would the silver surfer not be able to affect the dc characters since his power is derived form the power cosmic which doesn't exist in the dcu?

Its different; I have typed this in at least 3 different ways for you to understand this.

Dc universe make up and marvel makeup is completely different. You cant say that since flash is fighting surfer we should automatically connect surfer to the force so that flash could steal his speed. Since flash powers derive from the force and everything in dc is connected to the force (except zoom, thats why he couldnt steal his speed) flash wouldnt have any kind of problems stealing a force weilders speed.

The question you need to answer is, how can you steal something from someone when they dont have it?

How can I steal a million dollars from my momma when she dont have it? Its just that simple.

Originally posted by carver9
Its different; I have typed this in at least 3 different ways for you to understand this.

Dc universe make up and marvel makeup is completely different. You cant say that since flash is fighting surfer we should automatically connect surfer to the force so that flash could steal his speed. Since flash powers derive from the force and everything in dc is connected to the force (except zoom, thats why he couldnt steal his speed) flash wouldnt have any kind of problems stealing a force weilders speed.

The question you need to answer is, how can you steal something from someone when they dont have it?

How can I steal a million dollars from my momma when she dont have it? Its just that simple.

Actually, only a handful of beings are connected to the Speed Force. Someone like Black Adam, and Superman could have their speed stolen and they are not connected to the Speed Force. Only Wally West, Barry Allen, Bart Allen, Jay Garrick, Jesse Quick are connected to the Speed Force currently.

They steal the kinetic energy/motion etc. not the Speed Force when they steal speed.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
His not stealing the Speed Force, he steals motion/kinetic energy and so on, which exists in the Marvel Universe as well, it's just that in the DCU, the Speed Force governs it all unlike in Marvel.

In a neutral area, I don't see why this ability wouldn't work.

It's difficult finding a good analogy while putting in this much effort. Let's take the Phoenix Force, it is basically the representation of life/death in the Marvel Universe, and can tap into the life force etc. According to that logic couldn't an argument be made, that the Phoenix Force, couldn't directly steal life/resurrect someone from the DC, because in the DCU, the Phoenix Force doesn't exist?

I understand that but again everything in dc is connected to the speed force, so he can pull feats like that.

If there was no connection with everyone and dc then he wouldnt be pulling any of those feats and before he even gotten possession of the speed force he wasnt pulling feats like that. It has already been said on panel that everything is connected to the speed force. Flash has complete control over the speed force so he should be able to steal the speed from a speed force wielder.

Now if you show me him pulling feats like this BEFORE he got the speed force, then it would be within his powers to do it against someone on the marvel side. 😛

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Actually, only a handful of beings are connected to the Speed Force. Someone like Black Adam, and Superman could have their speed stolen and they are not connected to the Speed Force. Only Wally West, Barry Allen, Bart Allen, Jay Garrick, Jesse Quick are connected to the Speed Force currently.

Naah, its not a handful, its everyone, unless you'll like to explain how wonder woman entered the speed force. 😕

Only wally west, barry, allen, bart, jay jesse have CONTROL of the speed force.

Originally posted by carver9
I understand that but again everything in dc is connected to the speed force, so he can pull feats like that.

From what I understand, the Speed Force governs motion/kinetic energy and the likes, but only a handful of people are actually connected to it and Wally West mainlines the entire Speed Force.

Originally posted by carver9
If there was no connection with everyone and dc then he wouldnt be pulling any of those feats and before he even gotten possession of the speed force he wasnt pulling feats like that. It has already been said on panel that everything is connected to the speed force. Flash has complete control over the speed force so he should be able to steal the speed from a speed force wielder.

Now if you show me him pulling feats like this BEFORE he got the speed force, then it would be within his powers to do it against someone on the marvel side. 😛

That doesn't even make sense. He needed the connection to the Speed Force to get his powers. Without it he has no powers at all.

Only a handful of people wield the Speed Force. If everyone was connected to the Speed Force as the ones who wielded it, everyone would have super speed. It governs all motion and kinetic energy etc. but only a handful of people are actually connected to it.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, its not a handful, its everyone, unless you'll like to explain how wonder woman entered the speed force. 😕

Only wally west, barry, allen, bart, jay jesse have CONTROL of the speed force.

They are the only ones who are connected to it and wield it. The Speed Force governs all motion and kinetic energy.

As I recall, she wrapped her Lasso around Jesse Quick, and entered it as Jesse Quick broke the barrier.

Show me one other time besides those who wield the Speed Force etc. who enter the Speed Force?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
From what I understand, the Speed Force governs motion/kinetic energy and the likes, but only a handful of people are actually connected to it and Wally West mainlines the entire Speed Force.

That doesn't even make sense. He needed the connection to the Speed Force to get his powers. Without it he has no powers at all.

Only a handful of people wield the Speed Force. If everyone was connected to the Speed Force as the ones who wielded it, everyone would have super speed. It governs all motion and kinetic energy etc. but only a handful of people are actually connected to it.

So being a part of something means you have control of it? 😕

You do know that before the speed force was ever brought up in a comic flash still had super speed right?

Originally posted by carver9
So being a part of something means you have control of it? 😕

You do know that before the speed force was ever brought up in a comic flash still had super speed right?

No, but the Flash and the others are fast, because they are connected to the Speed Force. They're connection is what grants them this powers. The Speed Force governs all motion and so on, that is true, but the Flash and the others are the ones who are connected and wield it.

You're point?

The Speed Force is what is used to explain their powers. Without their connection to the Speed Force, they have no powers, as shown.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, but the Flash and the others are fast, because they are connected to the Speed Force. They're connection is what grants them this powers. The Speed Force governs all motion and so on, that is true, but the Flash and the others are the ones who are connected and wield it.

You're point?

The Speed Force is what is used to explain their powers. Without their connection to the Speed Force, they have no powers, as shown.

Thank you, we're getting somewhere now. Ok, you said that the flashes are fast due to there connection to the speed force.

Then you also said (which is true) that the speed force governs all motion (which is what I have been saying the entire time, dont know why we're still debating).

Since the speed force is what governs all motion IN DC (not screaming at you, just wanted you to see dc.) then its possible for any flash to steal the speed from people in a universe that is GOVERN by the speed force.

Since marvel isnt GOVERN by the speed force, then it should be safe to say that flash powers wouldnt work the same agaisnt someone that is GOVERN by the speed force. (Please let this post help, PLEASE, I'm getting sleepy).

Originally posted by carver9
Thank you, we're getting somewhere now. Ok, you said that the flashes are fast due to there connection to the speed force.

Yes that's why they are fast.

Originally posted by carver9
Then you also said (which is true) that the speed force governs all motion (which is what I have been saying the entire time, dont know why we're still debating).

You said that everyone in DCU is connected to the Speed Force and that is why the Flash can steal speed there. That isn't the reason why. The Flash can steal speed because he gets his powers from the Speed Force, and the Speed Force governs all motion/kinetic energy etc.

Originally posted by carver9
Since the speed force is what governs all motion IN DC (not screaming at you, just wanted you to see dc.) then its possible for any flash to steal the speed from people in a universe that is GOVERN by the speed force.

Since marvel isnt GOVERN by the speed force, then it should be safe to say that flash powers wouldnt work the same agaisnt someone that is GOVERN by the speed force. (Please let this post help, PLEASE, I'm getting sleepy).

In a neutral environment, I simply don't see why he wouldn't be able to steal speed. The Speed Force governs kinetic energy and motion in the DCU, but that doesn't mean that kinetic energy etc. doesn't exist in Marvel. In a neutral playing field, the Flash should be able to steal speed from characters from Marvel as well.

The Speed Force is the tool that allows him to do so as that's where his powers come from, and in a neutral environment all his powers are in play.

The Marvel Universe, doesn't have the Speed Force, but the characters from it, still posses kinetic energy/motion and so on.

I'm going to bed soon as well.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes that's why they are fast.

You said that everyone in DCU is connected to the Speed Force and that is why the Flash can steal speed there. That isn't the reason why. The Flash can steal speed because he gets his powers from the Speed Force, and the Speed Force governs all motion/kinetic energy etc.

In a neutral environment, I simply don't see why he wouldn't be able to steal speed. The Speed Force governs kinetic energy and motion in the DCU, but that doesn't mean that kinetic energy etc. doesn't exist in Marvel. In a neutral playing field, the Flash should be able to steal speed from characters from Marvel as well.

The Speed Force is the tool that allows him to do so as that's where his powers come from, and in a neutral environment all his powers are in play.

The Marvel Universe, doesn't have the Speed Force, but the characters from it, still posses kinetic energy/motion and so on.

I'm going to bed soon as well.

People that is govern by the speed force, yes, he should be able to steal there speed but since marvel universe never heard of the phrase speed force and isnt governed by them then they shouldnt be impacted by any of flash tricks at all.

If it was said that surfer can only steal energy from people with the power cosmic, that shouldnt have any kind of effect on people with cosmic powers in dc since dc dont use anything resembling the "power cosmic".

Just because one thing take affect towards something in one universe shouldnt be impacted by something in another 1.

I'll debate with you tomorrow, about to go to bed myself.

Originally posted by carver9
People that is govern by the speed force, yes, he should be able to steal there speed but since marvel universe never heard of the phrase speed force and isnt governed by them then they shouldnt be impacted by any of flash tricks at all.

If it was said that surfer can only steal energy from people with the power cosmic, that shouldnt have any kind of effect on people with cosmic powers in dc since dc dont use anything resembling the "power cosmic".

Just because one thing take affect towards something in one universe shouldnt be impacted by something in another 1.

I'll debate with you tomorrow, about to go to bed myself.

Not impacted by any of the Flash's tricks? Now that's just stupid. This is a neutral environment. That's like saying, Silver Surfer, can't use his energy manipulation on Superman.

You could have used a better analogy. Using the Speed Force, Flash steals kinetic energy/motion and the likes. He doesn't steal the Speed Force from beings, he steals that. Just because there is no Speed Force in Marvel doesn't mean that there isn't kinetic energy and such in the Marvel Universe. It exists, and based on this, in a neutral battle ground, the Flash should be more than capable of stealing the speed from the opposite team's members.

the ss has control over things at a molecular level and can control gravity and other such things through the power cosmic. why? because in marvel there is some sort of cosmic power that affects things in that universe and ss has been granted partial control over that power. since that same power does not exist in the dcu couldnt u assume that the ss wouldnt even be able to affect the dc characters costumes let alone them since their rules such as gravity or molecular composition are not controlled or affected by a power cosmic like in marvel? u could assume this power does exist in dc and they are not aware or in control of it and it could affect them, then i could just as easily assume the marvel characters are connected to the sf and dont know it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
They are the only ones who are connected to it and wield it.