Darkseid (FC) vs. Darkseid (GDS)

Originally posted by Enyalus
Well, Superman and Supergirl were amped by Highfather.

Originally posted by Enyalus
So I'm not sure if it was just PIS that he didn't use it, or if he couldn't. He was pretty shocked that his mental hold over the 3 billion Daxamites had been broken. Maybe he was worried about not being able to hold them in thrall AND the Legion at the same time.

Originally posted by Galan007
yeah, 3,000,000,000 is no problem at all - but 3,000,000,001 is the cut off point. 😛

Originally posted by Charmander
It's because his limit was specifically cut off at 3 billion. I thought that was common knowledge. 😬

I like it

i hoped you would. wink

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
that's not what i was getting at. you made it sound like GDS-darky controlling 3 billion characters with his acquired power, was any different than FC-darky controlling 3 billion characters with the ALE. meaning, the exotic powers darkseid had accumulated from various objects, and such, during GDS were part of his being - much like the ALE was part of his being, during FC. no difference there.

however, i personally see 'mindrape' as a more viable tactic for FC-darkseid, than i do for his GDS counterpart - do to the ALE.

I feel it is, since (correct me if Im wrong here) the ALE was released prior to DS's full emergence in Turpins body, which would mean that *he* wasnt the 1 in control for atleast part of the story, and he ended up doing so by means of a power *not his own*. Hal has accomplished a very similar feat in his early days, but that doesnt mean Id say he would be comparable to GDS, feat-by-feat -wise........

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
Hal has accomplished a very similar feat in his early days, but that doesnt mean Id say he would be comparable to GDS, feat-by-feat -wise........

GDS DS didn't do much that was impressive, besides teleporting Daxam and the mind control. PC Hal has similar feats, you're right.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

I feel it is, since (correct me if Im wrong here) the ALE was released prior to DS's full emergence in Turpins body, which would mean that *he* wasnt the 1 in control for atleast part of the story, and he ended up doing so by means of a power *not his own*.

Tazer

[you might remember him from 'seven soldiers'/'FC' #1.]

meaning, some 'version' of him has always been in control of the ALE.

Yo.

Originally posted by Enyalus
I would.

GDS DS didn't do much that was impressive, besides teleporting Daxam and the mind control. PC Hal has similar feats, you're right.

I dont remember Hal ever putting an pre-CoIE empowered Daxamite into a coma in 1 move......which GDS-DS did.

I also dont remember him switching the universal positions of 2 planets........while he was still weak.

lastly, I also dont remember Hal ever facing approximately 20+ superhumans, holding them all to arguably a stalemate, and then simply walking away KNOWING those opposed to U wont try to stop ya.

I like Hal, but he'd lose against GDS-DS, no question.

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
I dont remember Hal ever putting an pre-CoIE empowered Daxamite into a coma in 1 move......which GDS-DS did.

I also dont remember him switching the universal positions of 2 planets........while he was still weak.

And him putting Mon-El into a coma was more from the mind**** than anything else, IMO.

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
before darkseid's resurrection into turpin, he still existed as 'boss dark side':

[you might remember him from 'seven soldiers'/'FC' #1.]

meaning, some 'version' of him has always been in control of the ALE.

ok, but a question: was DS *in control* of the ALE the entire time, part of the time, some of the time............or ever......during that time??

either way, since it was via an external plot device, I still say that doesnt show him being = to GDS-DS.

Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Y'know, it made reference to him being at full strength several times during that arc. And he only mentions that he 'must be weaker' because he couldn't hold 3 billion Daxamite minds together while battling the Legion. I would throw out those words of his, which he only said once. He couldn't have been weaker. He had the combined magical energies of every worth while magical item in the galaxy, Mordru's power, Time Trapper's power, and Soulworld's (or whatever that Sorcerer planet was called) power. Plus his own.

And him putting Mon-El into a coma was more from the mind**** than anything else, IMO.

when he put down Mon-El, I dont believe he was at full power, HOWEVER I could be wrong; I dont think so, but it *could* happen....

he didnt have the TT's power, but that of a Controller (it was a later retcon), and I think U meant "Sorceror's World".

but, despite his current level of power at the end of ALL of that, the fact remains that GDS-DS let the stage becuz *HE* wanted too, not becuz he was beaten.

FC-DS's biggest feat was almost destroy the universe as he died....which doesnt really count in my book.

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
he didnt have the TT's power, but that of a Controller (it was a later retcon), and I think U meant "Sorceror's World".

Thanks.

A young Darkseid, before his pantheon killing, was able to stalemate and kill GDS Darkseid.

And DS fell backwards in time after whatever happened in the war in heaven. Seven Soldiers takes place before Infinite Crisis. He's been around awhile.

Originally posted by Tazer
Yo.

ok, but a question: was DS *in control* of the ALE the entire time, part of the time, some of the time............or ever......during that time??

either way, since it was via an external plot device, I still say that doesnt show him being = to GDS-DS.

Tazer

the ALE wasn't just some 'external plot device'. beside that, darkseid still had mental control/hold over every single being connected to it. point being: the TP feats from GDS/FC are almost identical. the only difference is that the ALE could (arguably) affect beings GDS-darky was unable to.

Yo.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
A young Darkseid, before his pantheon killing, was able to stalemate and kill GDS Darkseid.

and that was done becuz *that* GDS-DS hadnt yet "recharged" himself as I recall, and correct me if Im wrong but I dont think he'd done any of the feats the pre-CoIE guy had done as well.

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
And DS fell backwards in time after whatever happened in the war in heaven. Seven Soldiers takes place before Infinite Crisis. He's been around awhile.

I know that, but thnx fer the recap.

😄

Tazer

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
yes. darkseid has been 'in control' of the ALE ever since "seven soldiers."

it doesnt seem that way: if he had I think he wouldve simply taken over the whole planet, rather than just taken control of the ppl who were ensnared by the ALE which came over the 'Net, which would automatically have given him the win against just about everyone on
the planet.

moreover, it looks to me that it wasnt DS who was in control of the ALE (atleast not totally) the entire time, but Libra & Mokkari.........somehow.

Originally posted by Galan007
the ALE wasn't just some 'external plot device'. beside that, darkseid still had mental control/hold over every single being connected to it. point being: the TP feats from GDS/FC are almost identical. the only difference is that the ALE could (arguably) affect beings GDS-darky was unable to.

I dont think theyre identical given that GDS-DS took control of Daxams ENTIRE population w/o the need of external assistance, whereas it looks like FC-DS simply took control of those who were already under the thrall of that 'Net-dispersed ALE.

and I cant think of any examples for GDS-DS off-hand, but according to FC U would be "safe" if U were crazy, "wired different", or had that New God -character tattooed on yur face......

Tazer

Originally posted by Tazer
it doesnt seem that way: if he had I think he wouldve simply taken over the whole planet, rather than just taken control of the ppl who were ensnared by the ALE which came over the 'Net, which would automatically have given him the win against just about everyone on
the planet.

moreover, it looks to me that it wasnt DS who was in control of the ALE (atleast not totally) the entire time, but Libra & Mokkari.........somehow.

and if the others you mentioned had anything to do with the ALE, why wasn't it 'dispersed' (or whatever) upon libra's death? why did superman solely target darkseid with his counter vibrational 'life equation'?

in fact, the final page of the "FC: secret origins" (iirc) book explains darkseid's control over the ALE more in depth. i'll try to remember to post the scan once i get home.

Originally posted by Tazer
I dont think theyre identical given that GDS-DS took control of Daxams ENTIRE population w/o the need of external assistance, whereas it looks like FC-DS simply took control of those who were already under the thrall of that 'Net-dispersed ALE.

Originally posted by Tazer
and I cant think of any examples for GDS-DS off-hand, but according to FC U would be "safe" if U were crazy, "wired different", or had that New God -character tattooed on yur face......

Originally posted by Galan007
and if the others you mentioned had anything to do with the ALE, why wasn't it 'dispersed' (or whatever) upon libra's death? why did superman solely target darkseid with his counter vibrational 'life equation'

Yo.

Originally posted by Galan007
darkseid's control over the ALE goes way back to "seven soldiers" - and, as the scans i posted earlier show, boss dark side (from "SS"😉 was clearly shown in control of the ALE as recently as "FC" #1.

I wont dispute wat haapend in 7 Soldiers due to not having read it, however something else *mustve* happened that changed DS's relationship/control over the ALE when we get to FC, becuz if U look at how its used theres no way it was him in SOLE control of it, not when U have others having a hand in it.

Originally posted by Galan007
and if the others you mentioned had anything to do with the ALE, why wasn't it 'dispersed' (or whatever) upon libra's death? why did superman solely target darkseid with his counter vibrational 'life equation'?

by that token, why didnt DS enslave the OTHER 3 million ppl on the planet when he was fully "born" in Turpins body?? or better yet: why didnt he enslave Supes when he was right there in front of him (if he had the ALE, it doesnt GET much more easier than that..)??

Originally posted by Galan007
in fact, the final page of the "FC: secret origins" (iirc) book explains darkseid's control over the ALE more in depth. i'll try to remember to post the scan once i get home.

that would be much abliged, since I can seem to find mine.........dangit.

Originally posted by Galan007
anyone who witnessed the ALE went under darkseid's control. from what i gather, the net just helped darky infect more people with the ALE, faster.

my problem is that DS wasnt the 1 who sent it; had THAT been there case I wouldnt be questioning its usage........

Originally posted by Galan007
GDS-darky only showed the ability to initially gain control over non-powered daxamites. as mentioned earlier, if he was able to mindrape more powerful/TP-resistant beings on a whim, surely he would have done so against characters who were giving him problems such as, superman/girl/legion/orion, etc. (which he never did.)

agreed, but I dont recall anybody fighting his attempt to do so, nor was anybody exempt when he did it; FC-DS still only took over ppl who were pre-conditiond to obey him, as opposed to GDS-DS.

and I'll agree w/that last bit, but I also dont really recall him making the attempt, so saying whether he could or couldnt is naught but pure conjecture either way.

Tazer

He'd much rather kill Superman then use the ALE as he was gloating about him winning, he took control of the rest of the 3 billion people after he took control over Turpin's body. In FC 5 while talking to the evil gods of Apokolips and to the Furies DS let it be known he willed them to do everything they did. 😎

GDS Darkseid.