Punisher vs Cyclops. Wolverine and Collosus

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

Ermm he shot Wolverine in the back with a tranquiliser gun and he stumbled into the factory.

First he was shot with a bullet, second he never stumble into th ink factory, third it was no winter soldier who shot him.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone

..thats something that Pun could do. Most likely if anything if Punisher doesnt want to be found he wont be and it will be them following him.

No it not.

Actaully if wolverien wants to find punisher he will. Were talking about the man who found friggin a mystique from haft way around the world in the middle of no were in under 9 hours

Originally posted by Battlehammer
That never happened, you just made that up lol.

First he was shot with a bullet, second he never stumble into th ink factory, third it was no winter soldier who shot him.

Thats the thing if you cant remember something correctly people will accuse you of lying. Anyway it seems somebody shot him, he stumbled into the factory and WS was waiting for him. Its still not a big deal. The person who shot him wasnt as skilled as Pun.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

No it not.

Actaully if wolverien wants to find punisher he will. Were talking about the man who found friggin a mystique from haft way around the world in the middle of no were in under 9 hours

Hes not better at tracking than Dr Doom. Hes not better than DD, MK, Black Widow, Shang Chi and Dagger combined.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Thats the thing if you cant remember something correctly people will accuse you of lying. Anyway it seems somebody shot him, he stumbled into the factory and WS was waiting for him. Its still not a big deal. The person who shot him wasnt as skilled as Pun.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Hes not better at tracking than Dr Doom. Hes not better than DD, MK, Black Widow, Shang Chi and Dagger combined.

yes he better then any of them, with out a doubt. Also when did all of them even attempt to track him.

and Wolverine has tracked down people harder then punisher to find like mystique

Originally posted by Battlehammer
He dident stumble into it, he new he was being lured into the factory he did not care, because he needed information about the people in weapon x facility and what happen to his wife. Person skill level is irrelevent, he was tracking WS not some one elses.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Yes he most certainly is a better tracker then Doom.

Get outta here im not going to argue with you.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

yes he better then any of them, with out a doubt. Also when did all of them even attempt to track him.

Doesnt matter Wolverine is better than all of them combined.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

and Wolverine has tracked down people harder then punisher to find like mystique

All I know is Wolverine isnt a better tracker than the team and Doom.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Team have to hunt down and kill Pun. Pun has 3 weeks prep and full help from Henry during and after prep.

After 3 weeks prep team have to hunt down and kill Pun. No Cerebero.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
facepalm

Originally posted by Raoul
facepalm

Originally posted by Badabing
facepalm

Team ftw.

Again.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Well you know what you say prove to me how he wouldnt get sniped. Hell he can shoot Cyke from miles away.

Ermm he shot Wolverine in the back with a tranquiliser gun and he stumbled into the factory...thats something that Pun could do. Most likely if anything if Punisher doesnt want to be found he wont be and it will be them following him.

if cyclops knows frank is gunning for him, leaving himself open to sniping would be a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

so frank would have to:

a) lead the team to an ink factory
b) stun logan while evading the other two
c) lead them all inside where he can take them down.

it's a precise set of circumstances that most likely won't apply to this match.

i know frank CAN go undetected if he wants, but for me, logan is more likely to detect him than frank is to stay hidden.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Agreed.

Team ftw.

Again.

Apart from Kris do you even know why they were facepalming?

Originally posted by Raoul
if cyclops knows frank is gunning for him, leaving himself open to sniping would be a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

LOL I know hes not going to leave himself open to being sniped im asking you yo prove to me that he cant be siniped. You know when I say that a character can do such and such you so its not good enough to say he smart enough you need to explain how he wont get sniped.

What chance does Cyke have of not getting sniped when he was watching DD, MK, Shang Chi and Dagger without being noticed? DD was oboudly trying to hid his activities from the Punisher because he obvoulsy doesnt want Frank to find out what he was doing.

Originally posted by Raoul

so frank would have to:

a) lead the team to an ink factory
b) stun logan while evading the other two
c) lead them all inside where he can take them down.

it's a precise set of circumstances that most likely won't apply to this match.

Anyway it doesnt matter because Wolverine has been sneaked up on and shot loads of times.

Originally posted by Raoul

i know frank CAN go undetected if he wants, but for me, logan is more likely to detect him than frank is to stay hidden.

So you think Wolverine has more of a chance of finding Frank than Dr Doom has or DD, MK, Black Widow and Dagger?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway it doesnt matter because Wolverine has been sneaked up on and shot loads of times.

Essentially, are you saying Punisher has never been tracked down before?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So you think Wolverine has more of a chance of finding Frank than Dr Doom has or DD, MK, Black Widow and Dagger?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So you think Wolverine has more of a chance of finding Frank than Dr Doom has or DD, MK, Black Widow and Dagger?

Well, I'm not sure about Doom (though Doom isn't really known for his tracking ability) but DD, MK, Black Widow and Dagger really aren't master trackers. DD has enhanced senses, but he admitted that his tracking sense is nowhere near Wolverine's (it was in Secret Wars, I think).

It comes down to a normal man with mad tactical skills vs. a mutant with tracking powers and mad tracking skills. Being able to track down Mystique was quite a feat as hiding and blending in is what Mystique does.

I don't think sniping will be the best thing to do against this team. He'll naturally take down Cyke first, and when that happens he's easy pickings for Wolverine to track down and Colossus to take down. If you can come up with something that'd take down Colossus and one-shot Wolverine, I'd give him a few wins. But the way I see things now, Team takes this not-so-easily.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Apart from Kris do you even know why they were facepalming?

LOL I know hes not going to leave himself open to being sniped im asking you yo prove to me that he cant be siniped. You know when I say that a character can do such and such you so its not good enough to say he smart enough you need to explain how he wont get sniped.

What chance does Cyke have of not getting sniped when he was watching DD, MK, Shang Chi and Dagger without being noticed? DD was oboudly trying to hid his activities from the Punisher because he obvoulsy doesnt want Frank to find out what he was doing.

Anyway it doesnt matter because Wolverine has been sneaked up on and shot loads of times.

So you think Wolverine has more of a chance of finding Frank than Dr Doom has or DD, MK, Black Widow and Dagger?

you seriously didn't just ask me to prove a negative, did you?

Wolverine is a better out and out tracker than any of those people, so yes. cyclops picking him for x-force (as stupid as that whole concept is) wasn't a coincedence.

Phantom Zone I thought this was Punisher vs team not Winter Soilder vs Woverine? 😐

Anyway team wins.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Essentially, are you saying Punisher has never been tracked down before?

No im saying better trackers have failed to find him.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

Well, I'm not sure about Doom (though Doom isn't really known for his tracking ability)

He is known for his intelligence and Doom was uisng his intelligence to find Pun using probabilities etc.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

but DD, MK, Black Widow and Dagger really aren't master trackers. DD has enhanced senses, but he admitted that his tracking sense is nowhere near Wolverine's (it was in Secret Wars, I think).

First of all I think you're refering to The Infinite War were DD questioned wether Wolverines sense of smell was better than his.

DD is an expert tracker. Hes also been able to detect shape shifters.

http://img509.imageshack.us/i/doubleedgeomega335tq.jpg/

Also im saying that the team as a whole are better trackers than Wolverine.

You have DD who has senses more accurate than Wolverine and has actually studied The Punisher before attempting to track him down. Not only that his senses are so accurate he as able to detect shape shifters.

You have Black Widow who as alot of experience in this sort of thing being a member of the KGB.

Moon Knight who has advanced tech, has been a mercenery and would have tracking skills.

Shang Chi Fathers trains assassins and and Shang Chi has lots of experience fighting them. He also infiiltrated the Warbounds spaceship and tracked down Humbug.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

It comes down to a normal man with mad tactical skills vs. a mutant with tracking powers and mad tracking skills. Being able to track down Mystique was quite a feat as hiding and blending in is what Mystique does.

So is being able to detect a demon in human form. Also Punisher has shown better tracking skills than Wolverine.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210

I don't think sniping will be the best thing to do against this team. He'll naturally take down Cyke first, and when that happens he's easy pickings for Wolverine to track down and Colossus to take down. If you can come up with something that'd take down Colossus and one-shot Wolverine, I'd give him a few wins. But the way I see things now, Team takes this not-so-easily.

Why wouldnt sniping be used he has a skrull rifle that can kill people from miles away. He also has the Satans Claws that is capable of disintergrating Wolverines flesh to the bone.

Originally posted by Raoul
you seriously didn't just ask me to prove a negative, did you?

Ok why do I have to prove anything? Thats how a debate works both sides have to bring their evidence. I have actually brought evidence that Cyclops would be sniped you brought "No he won't." If you're going to tell people thats not proof in a debate dont tell me to do it either.

Originally posted by Raoul

Wolverine is a better out and out tracker than any of those people, so yes. cyclops picking him for x-force (as stupid as that whole concept is) wasn't a coincedence.

Im not talking about the group individually im talking about them as a whole. Its also not a coincedence that Shang Chi was brought into the team either. Im not even sure if you can actually prove that Wolverine is a better tracker than DD, his sense of smell is better but not hearing. Also Punisher has succeeded in tracking down somebody before Wolverine has, so stating that doesnt neccesarily prove anything.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Apart from Kris do you even know why they were facepalming?

I'm really not up for a drawn-out debate, because you'll just start reaching in any way you can to discredit Cyclops, Wolverine, and Colossus while playing up all of Castle's feats to assure him the victory. Does he have a chance? Sure, but just like winning the jackpot of the lottery, it's slim to none.

Team, FTW.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Yeah, but I used the Bada's and Raoul's facepalms out of context to serve my purposes in pointing out how retarded and tired a debate this is... AGAIN.

I'm really not up for a drawn-out debate, because you'll just start reaching in any way you can to discredit Cyclops, Wolverine, and Colossus while playing up all of Castle's feats to assure him the victory. Does he have a chance? Sure, but just like winning the jackpot of the lottery, it's slim to none.

Team, FTW.

Don't know what you're talking about. My last thread was actually closed by Bada by my request because you were talking out of your arse. Heres what I said paraphrase "EI is talking some crap if he actually provides some proof ands stop waffling keep the thread open, otherwise close the thread, the thread got closed.

Keep kidding yourself.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Don't know what you're talking about. My last thread was actually closed by Bada by my request because you were talking out of your arse. Heres what I said paraphrase "EI is talking some crap if he actually provides some proof ands stop waffling keep the thread open, otherwise close the thread, the thread got closed.

Keep kidding yourself.

And yet, if I remember correctly, most people in the last thread(s) were agreeing with me, or at the very least, disagreeing with you. It wouldn't do any good to provide any scans, because you'd just say something like "Punisher evaded Doom, and Doom is smarter than anyone; therefore, Punisher is more cunning than Doom, which makes him more cunning than the X-Men."

Keep kidding yourself, though.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
And yet, if I remember correctly, most people in the last thread(s) were agreeing with me, or at the very least, disagreeing with you.

It wouldn't do any good to provide any scans, because you'd just say something like "Punisher evaded Doom, and Doom is smarter than anyone; therefore, Punisher is more cunning than Doom, which makes him more cunning than the X-Men."

Keep kidding yourself, though.

If you're going to tell me to stop kidding yourself at least get what I said correct. Actually I said the team win 7/10, and one of the people that agreed with me was Roaul considering hes an Xman fan and probably knows more about the characters being discuseed than the other posters thats not helping your case either. Clearly Roaul doesnt know what hes talking about either or Bada for that matter. When you also dont know basic shit like Doom has military knowledge doesnt help either.

Now run along.

P.S. I wouldnt provide scans to you anyway because you would just pick it to death. Im not going to the effort of digging through my collection, switching on my other computer so you can come out with something absurd.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
If you're going to tell me to stop kidding yourself at least get what I said correct. Actually I said the team win 7/10, and one of the people that agreed with me was Roaul considering hes an Xman fan and probably knows more about the characters being discuseed than the other posters thats not helping your case either. Clearly Roaul doesnt know what hes talking about either or Bada for that matter. When you also dont know basic shit like Doom has military knowledge doesnt help either.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
P.S. I wouldnt provide scans to you anyway because you would just pick it to death. Im not going to the effort of digging through my collection, switching on my other computer so you can come out with something absurd.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No im saying better trackers have failed to find him.

Like who? Do you have proof that they are better trackers?

Also, I made this statement because you mentioned that Wolverine has been ambushed before. I'm only asking if Punisher's been tracked down before.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
He is known for his intelligence and Doom was uisng his intelligence to find Pun using probabilities etc.

Doom isn't known for his tracking skills, and he's certainly not a better tracker than Wolverine.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
First of all I think you're refering to The Infinite War were DD questioned wether Wolverines sense of smell was better than his.

DD is an expert tracker. Hes also been able to detect shape shifters.

http://img509.imageshack.us/i/doubleedgeomega335tq.jpg/

Also im saying that the team as a whole are better trackers than Wolverine.

You have DD who has senses more accurate than Wolverine and has actually studied The Punisher before attempting to track him down. Not only that his senses are so accurate he as able to detect shape shifters.

You have Black Widow who as alot of experience in this sort of thing being a member of the KGB.

Moon Knight who has advanced tech, has been a mercenery and would have tracking skills.

Shang Chi Fathers trains assassins and and Shang Chi has lots of experience fighting them. He also infiiltrated the Warbounds spaceship and tracked down Humbug.

So, what you're saying is that a bunch of people with advanced tracking skills (but far less than Wolverine's) can become potentially better at tracking than Wolverine as a team? Do you even know how tracking works? Tracking isn't a numbers game.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So is being able to detect a demon in human form. Also Punisher has shown better tracking skills than Wolverine.

Proof? And please post scan to establish context.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
[B]Why wouldnt sniping be used he has a skrull rifle that can kill people from miles away. He also has the Satans Claws that is capable of disintergrating Wolverines flesh to the bone.[B]

Cuz the minute you fire your weapon, you give out your location. Means that he can prolly take one of them but the rest is gonna be on him like flies of poop.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ok why do I have to prove anything? Thats how a debate works both sides have to bring their evidence. I have actually brought evidence that Cyclops would be sniped you brought "No he won't." If you're going to tell people thats not proof in a debate dont tell me to do it either.

you have to prove he can. that's how debating works. i don't have to prove he can't, because proving a negative isn't exactly easy. actually, asking anyone to do it is downright stupid.

i said that both teams had a chance to win. i said i thought logan could track a shrunken punisher, which to my knowledge, there's no reason that he can't.

i'm not replying to the rest, because, well, i don't see the point.

Originally posted by Raoul
you have to prove he can. that's how debating works. i don't have to prove he can't, because proving a negative isn't exactly easy. actually, asking anyone to do it is downright stupid.

Stop twisting shit around Roaul. You have to prove he can as well. Just like me. :/

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Stop twisting shit around Roaul. You have to prove he can as well. Just like me. :/

How can he prove a negative?