Who is more powerful, Thor or the Silver Surfer?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Thor's battle with HIM and his first Warrior Madness experience. Like we see at the end, once the battle is won he naturally reverts out of the madness:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-01.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-02.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-03.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-04.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-08.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-09.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-10.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-11.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-12.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-13.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-14.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-15.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-16.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e156/marvelkris/Thor%20comics/Thor166-17.jpg

As punishment for this, Thor is later sent out to find out the origin of Galactus.

Proper warrior madness is momentary.

Originally posted by Ambient
10x strength is a myth, never been proven..

I am quite sure it is.

Originally posted by quanchi112
That's a tough sell. There is no way Thor wasn't more powerful then than he is now. The odinforce doesn't make you just as powerful as he is when completely without it.

which is why its just some speculations on my part. as for thor's current state, i wonder if they forgot that the odinforce can be replenished by taking a nap. if thor just took a quick wink to recharge his powers instead of going around thinking of how to fix his hammer, he'd have the power to fix it himself as the odinforce would have been replenished.

Originally posted by darthgoober
The fact that everyone thought it was Warrior Madness supports the notion that Thor was amped, as Warrior Madness is an amped state. Warlock even commented on his being faster than he was in their first fight, which further supports his being amped since he was in Warrior Madness during their first fight. So we have BRB stating that he's drawing strength from his madness, Warlock talking about how he's worse than he was when he was in Warrior Madness, and his performance against 3 Herald level heroes to support his being amped.

keyword here is "thought". they all thought that thor had warrior madness, when infact it wasn't true warrior madness. he was just loco or imbalanced due to the screwing around odin did with thor and dr blake.

the question now is, how can thor be amped by warrior madness if it wasn't true warrior madness and he didn't have warrior madness?

the answer is no he cannot. thor can't be amped by warrior madness if he doesn't have warrior madness.

so what kinda amp did he have in blood and thunder? i have no idea but it sure is not warrior madness amp.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
which is why its just some speculations on my part. as for thor's current state, i wonder if they forgot that the odinforce can be replenished by taking a nap. if thor just took a quick wink to recharge his powers instead of going around thinking of how to fix his hammer, he'd have the power to fix it himself as the odinforce would have been replenished.

He said he still had a portion of the Odinforce i took this as since he no longer had access to all of it.

Also he did go into the Odinsleep.

I thinking this has something to do with Odin being in the void and the way Thor is going "the comic" it looks like odin will be coming back soon to get asgard and everything back in order.

Originally posted by Mindship
Somewhere in this forum (I don't remember where) there is a posted splash page with Thor (dressed in his mid-90s garb) talking with Ares (iirc), and he states that "beserker rage" does increase his strength by tenfold. Is BR the same as WM? That I don't know.

Couple of comments: it wasn't Ares Thor was talking to, it was Red Norvell. Also, note that Thor says he was trying to invoke this state but failed.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6461/thor50201qw8.jpg

If "berserker rage" is the same as "warrior madness" (and this is not some "alternate Thor"😉, then the tenfold increase (for warrior madness) is confirmed.

😑 at this thread.

the term berserker rage is an interesting one. it HAS been used interchangeably in at least one instance that i can recall. in hulk 440 (i think that's the #--where he fought the hulk/maestro) thor went into warrior madness in that battle, and later, it mentions also that his fury was 'berserker'. hulk smashed him into the upper atmosphere but thor didn't even feel pain from the blow. if we use that, it would seem the berserker and WM ARE the same thing. 😬

now, just to clarify--quan--you're saying what exactly? thor was NOT in warrior madness, but rather he was just insane in the B&T arc? and because he wasn't in WM, he wasn't truly amped, but rather he was simply blood lusted and not holding back?

Originally posted by leonidas
😑 at this thread.

now, just to clarify--quan--you're saying what exactly? thor was NOT in warrior madness, but rather he was just insane in the B&T arc? and because he wasn't in WM, he wasn't truly amped, but rather he was simply blood lusted and not holding back?

According to the scan I found, Thor cannot invoke this intense level of ferocity as found in WM w/o having WM. Can he invoke it other ways or does he have to be 'mad', WM or otherwise?

Originally posted by Mindship
Found it.

Couple of comments: it wasn't Ares Thor was talking to, it was Red Norvell. Also, note that Thor says he was trying to invoke this state but failed.

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6461/thor50201qw8.jpg

If "berserker rage" is the same as "warrior madness" (and this is not some "alternate Thor"😉, then the tenfold increase (for warrior madness) is confirmed.

i'd have to go with them being different. in the blood and thunder arc, it was stated that warrior madness was not cureable and that anyone who is inflicted with it is sentenced to death. this leads me to believe that once you get warrior madness, it stays with you till your executed, die or something to that extent.

on the other hand, the instances when thor has induced the so called "warrior madness" on himself (against hulk i think), the effect wasn't permanent. the writers probably just threw the terms around without first checking on past usage of the term. the correct term for this i think would be the berserker rage.

this is the same rage that thor succumbed to when first fighting HIM. If it were true warrior madness, thor would have been put to death instantly. instead, odin had him running after galactus (kinda like being put to death but at least he gets a chance of not dying outright).

so, there is a possibility that there are two amps that asgardians can invoke which will result in the same amount of amp. one would be the berserker rage which is not permanent and only lasts a while while the other is the warrior madness which is probably permanent and uncureable. which to me makes sense, in berserker rage, your just berserk and just lose control for a while. in warrior madness you've gone mad and are loco

Originally posted by Mindship
Hey, this is one of the few threads I stick my 2-cents in, so it has to keep goin'...

My question is this: according to the Thor Side, this was not warrior madness in B&T, therefore there was no strength amp. However, like WM, it brought out a comparable level of ferocity, otherwise BRB would not have misidentified it as WM.

According to the scan I found, Thor cannot invoke this intense level of ferocity as found in WM w/o having WM. Can he invoke it other ways or does he have to be 'mad', WM or otherwise?

must be berserker rage? 😛

as for invoking it, in the past, against HIM and Hulk, thor was able to tap into this power. i would think that to tap into the power of berserker rage or warrior madness or wtf its really called, thor would have to be in real combat and he would need to be insanely wanting to win at all cost. if this scenario is met, br or wm can be invoked.

but through meditation? i'd have to say that em dumbass writers were too lazy to look into it to be able to come up with a better explanation.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
ithis is the same rage that thor succumbed to when first fighting HIM. If it were true warrior madness, thor would have been put to death instantly. instead, odin had him running after galactus (kinda like being put to death but at least he gets a chance of not dying outright). rol for a while. in warrior madness you've gone mad and are loco

That is pure and distilled BS.

It was true warrior madness, Odin stated so several times.

Originally posted by leonidas
😑 at this thread.

the term berserker rage is an interesting one. it HAS been used interchangeably in at least one instance that i can recall. in hulk 440 (i think that's the #--where he fought the hulk/maestro) thor went into warrior madness in that battle, and later, it mentions also that his fury was 'berserker'. hulk smashed him into the upper atmosphere but thor didn't even feel pain from the blow. if we use that, it would seem the berserker and WM ARE the same thing. 😬

now, just to clarify--quan--you're saying what exactly? thor was NOT in warrior madness, but rather he was just insane in the B&T arc? and because he wasn't in WM, he wasn't truly amped, but rather he was simply blood lusted and not holding back?

it has hasn't it? my 2 cents is that their different but have the same result of a power amp.

i agree with quan that thor wasn't in true warrior madness in B&T as stated by odin. hence we didnt have the amp associated with warrior madness. but i do believe that he had some kind of amp, either

1. he was in berserker rage..i like to believe that berserker rage and warrior madness are not the same thing as the instances thor entered this state when fighting hulk and him, it just lasted the duration of the fight. warrior madness on the otherhand is punishable by death. this leads me to believe that it is punishable by death because it is uncureable. and once you enter this state, you stay in that state till you die or are killed. which evver comes first.
2. he was just not holding back and was showing his true power
3. adrenaline rush
4. he was on coke

take your pick, personally, i'm going with 4 😆

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
i'd have to go with them being different. in the blood and thunder arc, it was stated that warrior madness was not cureable and that anyone who is inflicted with it is sentenced to death. this leads me to believe that once you get warrior madness, it stays with you till your executed, die or something to that extent.

on the other hand, the instances when thor has induced the so called "warrior madness" on himself (against hulk i think), the effect wasn't permanent. the writers probably just threw the terms around without first checking on past usage of the term. the correct term for this i think would be the berserker rage.

this is the same rage that thor succumbed to when first fighting HIM. If it were true warrior madness, thor would have been put to death instantly. instead, odin had him running after galactus (kinda like being put to death but at least he gets a chance of not dying outright).

so, there is a possibility that there are two amps that asgardians can invoke which will result in the same amount of amp. one would be the berserker rage which is not permanent and only lasts a while while the other is the warrior madness which is probably permanent and uncureable. which to me makes sense, in berserker rage, your just berserk and just lose control for a while. in warrior madness you've gone mad and are loco

writers probably just threw the terms around without first checking on past usage

...is probably what happened.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
it has hasn't it? my 2 cents is that their different but have the same result of a power amp.

on panel would say differently. 😬

i like the idea of a distinction. personally i think the writers simply screwed things up, which sucks for continuity

i agree with quan that thor wasn't in true warrior madness in B&T as stated by odin. hence we didnt have the amp associated with warrior madness. but i do believe that he had some kind of amp, either

seems to me reasonable to assume he was stronger in SOME way. could that be because he simply threw out all restraint? if that's the case, it would imply he could repeat the feats in B&T any time he chose. not sure that's the case, but maybe . . .

1. he was in berserker rage..i like to believe that berserker rage and warrior madness are not the same thing as the instances thor entered this state when fighting hulk and him, it just lasted the duration of the fight. warrior madness on the otherhand is punishable by death. this leads me to believe that it is punishable by death because it is uncureable. and once you enter this state, you stay in that state till you die or are killed. which evver comes first.
2. he was just not holding back and was showing his true power
3. adrenaline rush
4. he was on coke

take your pick, personally, i'm going with 4 😆

4 isn't the worst choice. 🙂

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
That is pure and distilled BS.

It was true warrior madness, Odin stated so several times.

suure he did...

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
suure he did...

You were talking about the incident with Him in your post.

Try and connect the dots Einstein.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
this is the same rage that thor succumbed to when first fighting HIM. If it were true warrior madness, thor would have been put to death instantly. instead, odin had him running after galactus (kinda like being put to death but at least he gets a chance of not dying outright).

I was replying to this. Awfully difficult to keep track of posts, isn't it?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Walked over BRB, Surfer, and Warlock.

It means that he was being written as more dangerous than himself in Warrior Madness. Further supporting his being amped.

He walked over BRB, Surfer, and Warlock as well as BRB and Warlock's comments. If you're claim is that he can do that without an amp, then it's up to you to find proof outside of Blood and Thunder to support the notion since a single piece of evidence can't be used to support itself.

He can't generate that blast without the belt, making it invalid unless he has the belt in this thread.

And has been put down by far less.

Nah, I'm confident the judges will look at the entirety of the characters history rather than picking and choosing showings the way you're wanting to.

No, it doesn't. This was Thor without the restraints.

BrB also got the better of him briefly after Surfer interfered. Thor could still lose, but he is much harder to beat without holding back and completely merciless.

He won't do this to his friends because they are his friends. This mental affliction was the cause for his rash actions. He would never be this ruthless in a normal state of mind. You haven't proven anything like usual.

Yes, he can. The belt had nothing to do with the blast. We judge this on past feats and the belt didn't amp the blast itself. That is a power feat and counts. LOL at you trying to discount it.

Never by the Surfer. 😉

I'm fine with that. I know the judges also won't ignore a direct matchup with these two characters. Everyway you look at it I'll have you beat.

Originally posted by leonidas
😑 at this thread.

the term berserker rage is an interesting one. it HAS been used interchangeably in at least one instance that i can recall. in hulk 440 (i think that's the #--where he fought the hulk/maestro) thor went into warrior madness in that battle, and later, it mentions also that his fury was 'berserker'. hulk smashed him into the upper atmosphere but thor didn't even feel pain from the blow. if we use that, it would seem the berserker and WM ARE the same thing. 😬

now, just to clarify--quan--you're saying what exactly? thor was NOT in warrior madness, but rather he was just insane in the B&T arc? and because he wasn't in WM, he wasn't truly amped, but rather he was simply blood lusted and not holding back?

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
You were talking about the incident with Him in your post.

Try and connect the dots Einstein.

I was replying to this. Awfully difficult to keep track of posts, isn't it?

so i was wasn't i. and yes, odin and evverybody else did mention thor being in warrior madness.

though i'm curious, where was it stated that warrior madness amps thor's strength by 10? (i'm too lazy to look..an issue number would be nice)