Originally posted by quanchi112
Who beat him out of this group before?No, it doesn't. This was Thor without the restraints.
BrB also got the better of him briefly after Surfer interfered. Thor could still lose, but he is much harder to beat without holding back and completely merciless.
He won't do this to his friends because they are his friends. This mental affliction was the cause for his rash actions. He would never be this ruthless in a normal state of mind. You haven't proven anything like usual.
Yes, he can. The belt had nothing to do with the blast. We judge this on past feats and the belt didn't amp the blast itself. That is a power feat and counts. LOL at you trying to discount it.
Never by the Surfer. 😉
I'm fine with that. I know the judges also won't ignore a direct matchup with these two characters. Everyway you look at it I'll have you beat.
Sure it does. He fights without restraint in Warrior Madness also, so how would he be more dangerous than himself x10?
Yeah he got the better of him with Surfer's help, then he walked over Bill and took out Surfer with one more shot(on panel anyway, there could have been more off panel), then went on to walk over Warlock and Surfer together. Thus indicating he was amped. Sure I have, I've cited three different statements indicating he was amped as well as an unreal performance against BRB, Surfer, and Warlock. If you're saying that's normal for him to be able to do it's up to you to prove it.
He can't generate that blast without the belt because his hammer will break before he releases that much energy. It doesn't count unless he has the belt in this thread.
And Thor's never one shotted the Hulk with physical force or gotten him to admit that he(Thor) was stronger. Different characters do different things to support the plot.
I'm sure they'll ignore one that features an amp(meaning that neither of their past fights will likely be given much credit and will have to go to other sources, which I'm cool with).
Originally posted by darthgoober
I'm pretty sure that BRB has, and Surfer got the better of him in their first encounter(though there were admittedly circumstances regarding Surfer's power level). Plus the whole thing where Thor said that Surfer nearly killed him with a warning blast after Surfer left Earth..
In the issues before Blood and Thunder, Thor had beaten the living shizzle out of BRB and Sif. Surfer's interference is the only reason why BRB was still alive. Not to mention defeating Ares and Pluto not long before that. And are you still going on about that ridiculous warning blast incident?
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
In the issues before Blood and Thunder, Thor had beaten the living shizzle out of BRB and Sif. Surfer's interference is the only reason why BRB was still alive. Not to mention defeating Ares and Pluto not long before that. And are you still going on about that ridiculous warning blast incident?
Originally posted by darthgooberBrb also got the better of him after the surfer interfered proving it's the same Thor.
I'm pretty sure that BRB has, and Surfer got the better of him in their first encounter(though there were admittedly circumstances regarding Surfer's power level). Plus the whole thing where Thor said that Surfer nearly killed him with a warning blast after Surfer left Earth.Sure it does. He fights without restraint in Warrior Madness also, so how would he be more dangerous than himself x10?
Yeah he got the better of him with Surfer's help, then he walked over Bill and took out Surfer with one more shot(on panel anyway, there could have been more off panel), then went on to walk over Warlock and Surfer together. Thus indicating he was amped. Sure I have, I've cited three different statements indicating he was amped as well as an unreal performance against BRB, Surfer, and Warlock. If you're saying that's normal for him to be able to do it's up to you to prove it.
He can't generate that blast without the belt because his hammer will break before he releases that much energy. It doesn't count unless he has the belt in this thread.
And Thor's never one shotted the Hulk with physical force or gotten him to admit that he(Thor) was stronger. Different characters do different things to support the plot.
I'm sure they'll ignore one that features an amp(meaning that neither of their past fights will likely be given much credit and will have to go to other sources, which I'm cool with).
Surfer was amped and that's the only reason why he was able to do so. You're biased to even bring up an obvious amp yet try to prove Thor was amped despite nothing but loose speculation to say so.
Different writers I'd imagine. Comics aren't always consistent aren't all written by the same written. It's in the very same bein as Odin affecting the multiverse in his battle with Seth and saying he was using more powerful than against the Celestials based on that very fact. It's terrible logic.
No, that isn't indicating he was amped it's indicating he's powerful enough to take out all three characters when not holding back. BrB was also powerful enough to momentarily beat Thor with a few hammer shots and then allowing him the opportunity to gather himself and then pounce them again.
Warlock was always less than Thor as was the Surfer. The Surfer needs an amp from Loki to get the better of him but under his own power we see how distant they are.
No, that's still an example of his own power. Again, quit trolling. He doesn't have to repeat the feat and it clearly demonstrated his power level.
Thor has also never used his most powerful attack either. Thor has ko'd him before. he usually hits him over the head wit his hammer which further powers the hulk up due to his rage. Had Thor even godblasted him he'd be out cold. Hulk is stronger while Thor is far more powerful.
No, Thor's fight is fair game while the Surfer's isn't due to loki amping the surfer just to have a chance. When he had no amp he was nothing to Thor. 🙂
Originally posted by quanchi112
Brb also got the better of him after the surfer interfered proving it's the same Thor.Surfer was amped and that's the only reason why he was able to do so. You're biased to even bring up an obvious amp yet try to prove Thor was amped despite nothing but loose speculation to say so.
Different writers I'd imagine. Comics aren't always consistent aren't all written by the same written. It's in the very same bein as Odin affecting the multiverse in his battle with Seth and saying he was using more powerful than against the Celestials based on that very fact. It's terrible logic.
No, that isn't indicating he was amped it's indicating he's powerful enough to take out all three characters when not holding back. BrB was also powerful enough to momentarily beat Thor with a few hammer shots and then allowing him the opportunity to gather himself and then pounce them again.
Warlock was always less than Thor as was the Surfer. The Surfer needs an amp from Loki to get the better of him but under his own power we see how distant they are.
No, that's still an example of his own power. Again, quit trolling. He doesn't have to repeat the feat and it clearly demonstrated his power level.
Thor has also never used his most powerful attack either. Thor has ko'd him before. he usually hits him over the head wit his hammer which further powers the hulk up due to his rage. Had Thor even godblasted him he'd be out cold. Hulk is stronger while Thor is far more powerful.
No, Thor's fight is fair game while the Surfer's isn't due to loki amping the surfer just to have a chance. When he had no amp he was nothing to Thor. 🙂
Nope. He's done it before without needing Surfer's help, proving Thor was amped.
I don't see what's so biased since you're bringing up an amped Thor(as confirmed on panel by two characters).
No it's like saying that Thor was obviously amped as illustrated by Warlock saying that he was faster and more dangerous than he is in Warrior Madness.
And if you're claiming that he should be able to, it's up to you to prove. Or are you refusing to discuss anything outside of Blood and Thunder again?
lol, when neither were amped Surfer nearly killed him with a warning blast.
Only if he has the belt. If he doesn't have the belt in the thread, the feat's irrelevant. If you think I'm trolling by pointing that out, feel free to report me.
That's nice and all but my point was just that different characters do different things for the sake of the plot.
Nope. Thor was amped in B&T, their first fight's just as valid as their second.
Also, is there any particular reason you're ignoring Surfer's upgrade since Blood and Thunder?
Originally posted by darthgooberNo, it just proved that this fight can go either way. If BrB connects he can still get the better of Thor, but I see Thor getting him for a solid majority.
Nope. He's done it before without needing Surfer's help, proving Thor was amped.I don't see what's so biased since you're bringing up an amped Thor(as confirmed on panel by two characters).
No it's like saying that Thor was obviously amped as illustrated by Warlock saying that he was faster and more dangerous than he is in Warrior Madness.
And if you're claiming that he should be able to, it's up to you to prove. Or are you refusing to discuss anything outside of Blood and Thunder again?
lol, when neither were amped Surfer nearly killed him with a warning blast.
Only if he has the belt. If he doesn't have the belt in the thread, the feat's irrelevant. If you think I'm trolling by pointing that out, feel free to report me.
That's nice and all but my point was just that different characters do different things for the sake of the plot.
Nope. Thor was amped in B&T, their first fight's just as valid as their second.
Also, is there any particular reason you're ignoring Surfer's upgrade since Blood and Thunder?
The same character was incorrect about warrior's madness. You can't take his words as factual when he was so blatantly incorrect about warrior's madness.
That's just his opinion. Whether he appeared faster or not is besides the point. There was no amp as we find out later in the story and while this is going on these characters are trying to determine the cause of his behavior, but it's all their speculation which we later find out is incorrect.
I don't have to prove anything. It's up to you to prove he cannot as we already see him proving he can in blood and thunder.
Loki also felt like the Surfer needed his power boost to be able to defeat Thor. If you want to go this route I can do the same thing.
We later see them fight and Thor easily route him. We don't ever see the Surfer ever defeat Thor on his own under his own power while Thor beat him and warlock with ease.
I could care less to report someone. It's silly to begin with I am just pointing out the fact that blast was attributed to his power level and is admissible. He doesn't have to recreate the blast in this particular thread. Now accept that it's admissible and move on. The fact you keep trying to undermine his feats and try to discount them proves to me how weak of a case you have.
Again, Thor is vastly more powerful and has also ko'd Hulk before. If he used his most powerful attacks Hulk would be toast. It's true.
No, he wasn't. You are going by character's speculation which was later proven false as your only proof of this. It shows the lengths you will go for Surfer.
I am ignoring no such thing. I take into account all of his showings. He looked good against BrB, but also looked to be not that powerful against Skaar imo. They even out and don't override Thor's utter domination of BrB and the Surfer.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, it just proved that this fight can go either way. If BrB connects he can still get the better of Thor, but I see Thor getting him for a solid majority.The same character was incorrect about warrior's madness. You can't take his words as factual when he was so blatantly incorrect about warrior's madness.
That's just his opinion. Whether he appeared faster or not is besides the point. There was no amp as we find out later in the story and while this is going on these characters are trying to determine the cause of his behavior, but it's all their speculation which we later find out is incorrect.
I don't have to prove anything. It's up to you to prove he cannot as we already see him proving he can in blood and thunder.
Loki also felt like the Surfer needed his power boost to be able to defeat Thor. If you want to go this route I can do the same thing.
We later see them fight and Thor easily route him. We don't ever see the Surfer ever defeat Thor on his own under his own power while Thor beat him and warlock with ease.
I could care less to report someone. It's silly to begin with I am just pointing out the fact that blast was attributed to his power level and is admissible. He doesn't have to recreate the blast in this particular thread. Now accept that it's admissible and move on. The fact you keep trying to undermine his feats and try to discount them proves to me how weak of a case you have.
Again, Thor is vastly more powerful and has also ko'd Hulk before. If he used his most powerful attacks Hulk would be toast. It's true.
No, he wasn't. You are going by character's speculation which was later proven false as your only proof of this. It shows the lengths you will go for Surfer.
I am ignoring no such thing. I take into account all of his showings. He looked good against BrB, but also looked to be not that powerful against Skaar imo. They even out and don't override Thor's utter domination of BrB and the Surfer.
If BRB can give Thor a righteous fight on his own, there's no way Thor should be able to beat him and Surfer together and then Warlock and Surfer together.
He was incorrect about it being Warrior Madness because it so closely resembled it, which indicates it's an amped state(since Warrior Madness is an amped state).
And he's a credible source since he's fought Warrior Madness Thor before. All they said was that it wasn't true Warrior Madness, they never said that the characters were wrong about him being more powerful.
My proof is Thor's past encounters with the characters involved.
The only reason Loki thought that was because Surfer was in a depowered state at the time.
So you're still refusing to discuss anything outside of Blood and Thunder then?
According to you...
Originally posted by -Pr-
In what sort of terms?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Energy output and ferocity of attacks.[/B]In the Hulk annual Hulk was portrayed as the stronger of the two while Thor was definitely the more powerful.
...this is based on energy output not the energy contained within the characters. He can't generate a blast like that without the belt so it's not relevant. That's a Thor's energy output prep, not his standard.
Again, the point is that different characters accomplish different things for the sake of the plot.
No I'm going by on panel statements with combat showings to back them up, you're going by the leap of logic that if it's not Warrior Madness then it's not an amp.
No you're taking into account Blood and Thunder and that's it. You're weighing Surfer's showing against BRB against his showing against Skaar while taking Thor's showing in Blood and Thunder at face value despite Surfer's amp since then.
H'm. Just tossin' this out there...
The pro-Thor position has been that B&T Thor was not amped in power but amped in ferocity due to his madness. The power displayed was already his own.
In B&T, Surfer said he would no longer hold back, but the fact is, Surfer was angry, not 'mad'. That is, his state of mind was not equal to Thor's therefore his cutting loose could not be equal to Thor's.
Basically, "insane Thor > angry Surfer" would seem to be a more accurate statement than a flat-out "Thor > Surfer" (especially keeping in mind Surfer's Annihilation upgrade: even if this was an upgrade in attitude than in actual power, we may, may have seen this upgrade's effect in Godhunter, where it is stated in the opening narrative of the second issue that BRB is "equal in power to the God of Thunder"😉.
Originally posted by darthgooberOnce again you prove to me you really didn't read blood and thunder or are purposely trying to twist the context to establish this non existent amp.
If BRB can give Thor a righteous fight on his own, there's no way Thor should be able to beat him and Surfer together and then Warlock and Surfer together.He was incorrect about it being Warrior Madness because it so closely resembled it, which indicates it's an amped state(since Warrior Madness is an amped state).
And he's a credible source since he's fought Warrior Madness Thor before. All they said was that it wasn't true Warrior Madness, they never said that the characters were wrong about him being more powerful.
My proof is Thor's past encounters with the characters involved.
The only reason Loki thought that was because Surfer was in a depowered state at the time.
So you're still refusing to discuss anything outside of Blood and Thunder then?
According to you...
...this is based on energy output not the energy contained within the characters. He can't generate a blast like that without the belt so it's not relevant. That's a Thor's energy output prep, not his standard.
Again, the point is that different characters accomplish different things for the sake of the plot.
No I'm going by on panel statements with combat showings to back them up, you're going by the leap of logic that if it's not Warrior Madness then it's not an amp.
No you're taking into account Blood and Thunder and that's it. You're weighing Surfer's showing against BRB against his showing against Skaar while taking Thor's showing in Blood and Thunder at face value despite Surfer's amp since then.
Thor pretty much routes BrB on his own and then before he can finish him off the Surfer intervenes giving Bill the time needed to gather himself up again. Bill then cheapshots Thor while they are at a standoff and then the Surfer flies in knocking Thor backward to which Thor quickly gets the better of the Surfer.
Bill then momentarily gets the better of him on his own without the aid of the surfer. Both stand there like absolute morons giving Thor the time needed to recover. Both he and Bill recovered besting the other one temporarily. No amp was needed from Bill to beat Thor and no amp was needed from Thor. This is common sense. They both have the tools to beat the other.
No, it isn't. Bill mistakenly thought his behavior resembled warrior's madness so since he was incorrect about that he was incorrect about everything concerning Thor. Thor was unbalanced but to a different point and one in which he received no literal amp until the end of the story.
Thor never went all out against the Surfer before showing no mercy whatsoever. Thor was never this vicious before granting his friends no quarter and no mercy. Thor also lost one on one momentarily to bill thus proving no amp. I have you every which way.
Ok, but we later have a fully powered Surfer taking on Thor and it was no contest at all. So I tend to back up Loki's statement as the guy usually knows what he's talking about. Surfer needs an amp to best Thor in all out combat.
His energy output was unleashed against Exitar thus making it valid. The means of reinforcing the hammer is irrelevant as he doesn't have to recreate the feat here. It was done under his own power so it counts.
It's energy output at his best so quit trying to disqualify it. It fits my parameters of this thread and is showing how childish you really are.
It stands, period.
Bill also defeated Thor in this very arc. There is no literal amp at all described and your only statement is based from a guy who thought it was warrior's madness.
😂
You wanted to discuss the blood and thunder showing. Surfer hasn't shown any power upgrade to the point of competing with a godblast. In fact when he took away Skaar's old world power he became weakened further not impressing me at all. 😂
Originally posted by MindshipBrB is the theoretical equal of Thor, but in combat and feats he doesn't even come close to Thor's godblast. Exitar, Galactus showing.
H'm. Just tossin' this out there...The pro-Thor position has been that B&T Thor was not amped in power but amped in ferocity due to his madness. The power displayed was already his own.
In B&T, Surfer said he would no longer hold back, but the fact is, Surfer was angry, not 'mad'. That is, his state of mind was not equal to Thor's therefore his cutting loose could not be equal to Thor's.
Basically, "insane Thor > angry Surfer" would seem to be a more accurate statement than a flat-out "Thor > Surfer" (especially keeping in mind Surfer's Annihilation upgrade: even if this was an upgrade in attitude than in actual power, we may, may have seen this upgrade's effect in Godhunter, where it is stated in the opening narrative of the second issue that BRB is "equal in power to the God of Thunder"😉.
Surfer hasn't come anywhere close to it.
Originally posted by quanchi112Sue Richards was able to hurt Galactus momentarily too. This aside, has BRB ever tried to godblast? If he's Thor's equal, then he should (theoretically) be capable of it.
BrB is the theoretical equal of Thor, but in combat and feats he doesn't even come close to Thor's godblast. Exitar, Galactus showing.
Still, the godblast is an impressive measure of power with no directly corresponding feat yet shown by the Surfer (I maintain that because Marvel sees the master-servant relationship with Galactus as sacrosanct, we will not see Surfer hurt Galactus anytime soon). So far, Surfer's most eye-opening, post-Annihilation feat (that I'm aware of) has been his rapid take-down of Thor's theoretical equal...though I'm not yet sure what this really means.
Originally posted by MindshipDi dsue richards ever drive him off by her own power?
Sue Richards was able to hurt Galactus momentarily too. This aside, has BRB ever tried to godblast? If he's Thor's equal, then he should (theoretically) be capable of it.Still, the godblast is an impressive measure of power with no directly corresponding feat yet shown by the Surfer (I maintain that because Marvel sees the master-servant relationship with Galactus as sacrosanct, we will not see Surfer hurt Galactus anytime soon). So far, Surfer's most eye-opening, post-Annihilation feat (that I'm aware of) has been his rapid take-down of Thor's theoretical equal...though I'm not yet sure what this really means.
BrB has never done so. We can't just say he can do so without every actually doing so. BrB also never godblasted the Surfer in combat so.....
He took him down in combat but this doesn't pertain anything to Thor as they are different characters. They aren't the same person. If someone takes down supergirl we don't think they take down superman because of it.