If you had one wish, what would you wish for?

Originally posted by jaden101
German scientists also invented or further developed IR night vision technology,

A friggin' American engineer invented that.

Originally posted by jaden101
guided missiles,

I'll give you this one, too, on the grounds that the gyroscope was invented by a German anyway. (Wasn't it Bohnenberger?)

Originally posted by jaden101
electronic computers,

mmm....

Meh.

That is questionable as more work occurred outside of Germany.

Originally posted by jaden101
the electron microscope,

How about no. The electron microscope predates the 3rd Reich. I believe it was 1930 or 31.

Originally posted by jaden101
atomic fission,

How about a major no, there. How about Ernet Rutherford. (One of my childhood heros. cry

Originally posted by jaden101
data-processing technologies,

No. That goes just as equally, if not more so, to the Americans with their ABC computer.

Originally posted by jaden101
pesticides, chemical and biological weapons such as Tabun and Sarin gas.

I'll give you all of the above, except for biological weapons. You can make a case for the Japanese, as well. And developing and using biological weapons was not new to the 3rd Reich.

Originally posted by jaden101
For public health reasons, the Nazis were the 1st to produce research into the links between smoking and lung cancer.

I'm giving you this one, 100%.

Originally posted by jaden101
They pioneered research into treating hypothermia though their experiments on human subjects.

Pioneered, they did not. They little information that could be gleaned was certainly useful. However, they did not pioneer hypothermia treatment.

Originally posted by jaden101
Microwave cooking was pioneered by Nazi scientists to feed the troops on the Russian front.

Dude...a friggin' American, again, invented the microwave.

Most certainly was not pioneered by the Germans.

Originally posted by jaden101
That's just some of the stuff they did and I still standby the point that if the Nazis had won then more money would have been put into furthering those pieces of research.

I still find it dubious that we would have very much more new technologies. Almost all of your technologies had roots or were literally developed somewhere else.

I'll give you one thing more: The Germans DID combine a few technologies in new ways....buuuut so did a lot of other places. In fact, the Americans did a SHIT load of new crap right after WWII that exceeded anything the 3rd Reich did.

The subsequent cold war was also full of brand new things from both Russia and the US. The Cold war gave us much more "useful" stuff.

Originally posted by jaden101
You should definitely read that jlaw website though. Very interesting stuff.

I read the whole thing. It is a very biased piece of writing. It was written by a layman, as well.

Originally posted by jaden101
The level of technological and scientific investment would be massive and we would be far more advanced now that we currently are.

I think that if the third reich had won then we would be wasting far less resources than we currently are.

Far more likely that the massive inefficiency of the Nazi regime would have totally destroyed the world economy within a decade setting us back tremendously.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Far more likely that the massive inefficiency of the Nazi regime would have totally destroyed the world economy within a decade setting us back tremendously.

WTF?

I've never heard of this before. Hook me up with some sources. I'd love to read about it.

****ing nihlists....****ing nazis.....

Originally posted by dadudemon
WTF?

I've never heard of this before. Hook me up with some sources. I'd love to read about it.

Well I don't know of an sources but it was always explained to me that because the Nazi regime (and fascist ideology in general) was founded on using war to sustain itself they could never have really won. Defeating the Allies would have forced them to keep expanding, taking the war further and further. Eventually for Hitler to "win" he would have to conquer the entire planet.

Once the entire world was conquered the system would collapse in on itself, though perhaps they might have sustained it for a few years more by building infrastructure. The Nazi's spent far more money than they were produced, only maintaining their economy by rhetoric and simple looting of their neighbors.

There's a short analysis of the flaws in the Nazi system.
http://www.alternatehistory.com/gateway/essays/NaziEconomy.html

Originally posted by dadudemon
Was a greater attempt at genocide comitted against another people during WWII?

Oh I don't know, over 5 million gypsies, homosexuals, communists, those with mental disease and whole lot of other civilians deemed not likable to Hitler.

Right, well lets then forget about all other non-Jewish civilians that died in WWII because well, we cannot all put them under the single umbrella of ethnicity or religion.

NOONE denies Jews were singled out, but they weren't the only one killed as I already stated.

i change my wish, i wish for yous to stop talkin about nazis

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Oh I don't know, over 5 million gypsies, homosexuals, communists, those with mental disease and whole lot of other civilians deemed not likable to Hitler.

Right, well lets then forget about all other non-Jewish civilians that died in WWII because well, we cannot all put them under the single umbrella of ethnicity or religion.

NOONE denies Jews were singled out, but they weren't the only one killed as I already stated.

This is true. I agree with most of your post. However, Hitler primarily hated Jews and his largest goal was to wipe them out entirely. He elaborates on his Antisemitism in "Mein Kampf."

A friggin' American engineer invented that.

I believe you're thinking of William Spicer. His work was carried out in the 1950's if I recall correctly. Different type of technology altogether.

mmm.... Meh. That is questionable as more work occurred outside of Germany.

I'll be more specific. World's 1st functional program-controlled Turing-complete computer.

How about no. The electron microscope predates the 3rd Reich. I believe it was 1930 or 31.

Predates the Reich being in power but not the Nazi party having large influence in German politics. Max Knol and Ernst Ruska were both supporters of the Nazi party and reciepients of numerous awards by them.

I'll give you all of the above, except for biological weapons. You can make a case for the Japanese, as well. And developing and using biological weapons was not new to the 3rd Reich.

Again, we can be pedantic with regards to these things. You can attribute biological weapons to the middle age seiges when plague victims were catapulted over beseiged castle walls.

I'm giving you this one, 100%.

Not all bad then eh?

Pioneered, they did not. They little information that could be gleaned was certainly useful. However, they did not pioneer hypothermia treatment.

Sigmund Rascher actually had a hypothermia research lab at Dachau and Auschwitz. Although, to be fair, a lot of this data is now being rejected as scientifically unsound although this isn't the case with data from experiments following on from the Nazi experiments.

Dude...a friggin' American, again, invented the microwave.

Are you referring to Percy Spencer? If so, that was 1946. The Germans were using the technology several years before under the name "radiomissor"

In fact, the Americans did a SHIT load of new crap right after WWII that exceeded anything the 3rd Reich did.

Using, in many cases, German scientists and captured German technology.

Far more likely that the massive inefficiency of the Nazi regime would have totally destroyed the world economy within a decade setting us back tremendously.

Not so. The Reich economy before and during the war was far more efficient and productive than it had been before or since. They appropriated technology from IBM to make them more efficient and were one of the 1st nations to implement large scale punch card technology and data storage to make them more efficient.

Oh...and it's best to read things before you post. Like for example.

or further developed

Jaden, you missed the bulk of my reply to you.

Check back a page.

wow.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Jaden, you missed the bulk of my reply to you.

Check back a page.

😆 ****...So I did.

I'll get back to you on that.

I don't see that and your claim is yet to be substantiated. It's not that I don't believe, it's just that I don't have your evidence.

Here's a few scientists opinions on current levels of spending on scientific research in western countries

http://www.firstscience.com/home/perspectives/editorials/us-2008-science-budget-slashed_41445.html

"I think there's a loss of American power and prestige that came about as a result of our anti-science policies," biologist David Baltimore, a Nobel laureate and the chairman of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, said.

From

http://www.portfolio.com/views/columns/natural-selection/2008/06/04/Science-Spending-Debate

http://www.scienceonline.org/cgi/content/summary/311/5757/28

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13718580.500-british-industry-cuts-research-to-the-bone--.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_funding_of_science#World_War_II

While Himmler himself was actually regarded as highly unintelligent, it was his attitude to science and his interest in science that forced the issue of high levels of funding for science in the Reich. It was he who pushed for the setting up of the "Ahnenerbe" institutes which researched the following.

* Gesamte Naturwissenschaft ("Natural Science"😉
* Darstellende und angewandte Naturkunde ("Descriptive and Applied Natural History"😉
* Biologie ("Biology"😉
* Entomologie ("Entomology"😉
* Astronomie ("Astronomy"😉
* Pferdezucht ("Horse Breeding"😉
* Botanik ("Botany"😉
* Pflanzengenetik ("Plant Genetics"😉
* Karst- und Höhlenkunde ("Speleology"😉
* Naturwissenschaftliche Vorgeschichte ("Scientific History"😉
* Tiergeographie und Tiergeschichte ("Zoogeography and Animal Stories"😉
* Angewandte Geologie ("Applied Geology"😉
* Geologische Zeitmessung ("Geochronology"😉
* Geophysik ("Geophysics"😉
* Kernphysik ("Nuclear Physics"😉
* Volksmedizin ("Folk Medicine"😉
* Osteologie ("Osteology"😉
* Ueberprüfung der sogenannten Geheimwissenschaften ("Survey of the so-called occult sciences"😉
* Wehrwissenschaftliche Zweckforschung ("Military Scientific Research"😉

As well as social sciences such as.

* Indogermanisch-arische Sprach- und Kulturwissenschaft (Indogermanic-aryan Language and Cultural Studies)
* Indogermanisch-germanische Sprach- und Kullturwissenschaft (Indogermanic-Germanic Language and Cultural Studies)
* Germanische Kulturwissenschaft und Landschaftskunde (Germanic Cultural Studies and Landscape Science)
* Germanische Sprachwissenschaft und Landschaftskunde (Germanic Linguistics and Landscape Science)
* Indogermanische Glaubengeshichte (Indogermanic Faith history)
* Indogermanische Rechtsgeschichte (Indogermanic Historical jurisprudence)
* Indogermanisch-deutsche Musik (Indogermanic-German Music)
* Germanisch-deutsch Volkskunde (Germanic-German Folklore)
* Deutsche Volksforschung und Volkskunde (German Ethnic Research and Folklore)
* Volkserzählung, Märchen und Sagenkunde (Folktales, Fairytales and Myths)
* Runen, Schrift und Sinnbildkunde (Runes, Alphabets, and Symbols)
* Hausmarken und Sippenzeichen (House Brands and Family Marks)
* Ortung und Landschaftssinnbilder (Location and Landscape symbols)
* Ausgrabungen (Excavations)
* Germanisches Bauwesen (Germanic Architecture)
* Wurtenforschung (Dwelling Mound Research)
* Urgeschichte (Prehistory)
* Keltische Volksforschung (Celtic ethnic research)
* Indogermanisch-finnische Kulturbeziehungen (Indogermanic-Finnish cultural relations)
* Klassische Archäologie (Classic Archaeology)
* Klassische Altertumswissenschaft (Classical Antiquity)
* Alte Geschichte (Ancient History)
* Mittlere und Neuere Geschichte (Middle and Modern History)
* Griechische Philologie (Greek Philology)
* Lateinische Philologie (Latin Philology)
* Mittellatein (Medieval Latin)
* Innerasien und Expeditionen (Inner Asia and Expeditions)
* Vorderer Orient (Near East)
* Ostasien-Institut (East Asian Institute)
* Orientalistische Indologie (Oriental Indology)
* Nordwestafrikanische Kulturwissenschaft (Northwest African Cultural Studies)
* Philosophie (Philosophy)

Although the later was more to try and prove that the Aryan nation was superior to others.

Also, WTF did Gebhardt do? I thought he just killed a bunch of women. My history books only taught that he was an absurd sadist that got killed after the conclusions of the Doctors' Trial.

He tested a lot of different drugs against a lot of different microbes. Granted, he did in the most horribles ways possible. In some cases, cutting large wounds in people's legs then stitching contaminated wood into the wounds and letting them fester.

I've already linked to what he did. Can't remember which link it was though.

Mengele is pretty much the only one of significance that you mentioned. However, his actual contributions to medical science are questionable. Don't you agree? I mean...what did he really contribute? What was "discovered" of note from his experiments?...or obsession with twins?

I agree. His obsession with twins was astoundingly ****ed up. As were his experiments.

I am not finding this particular invention to be revolutionary or even groundbreaking. However, it was innovative for its time, but was among other/similar computers around it's time. I see your computer and raise you the ABC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanas...3Berry_Computer

One is non programmable, one is fully programmable.

To simply argue that everything is an evolution of everything else, technology wise doesn't negate my points.

I see your Horten Brothers and raise you the Northrop YB-35 and the XB-36. Do you see what I mean now about stuff from WWII Germany having compliments from other nations?

It was the seemingly unassuming part about coal dust and wood glue I was getting at...Should've made that clear though. My bad.

AHA! Here's one. But I see your bacteria and raise you Alexander Fleming. A Scottish scientist.

I don't see how Fleming discovering one things detracts from Nazi scientists discovering something completely different.

Using amphetamines, cocaine, and morphine for "medical" purposes was nothing new.

Using it for military purposes, however, was.

Who would've thought that a seemingly frivilous question like "what would you wish for if you had one wish?" would lead to this eh? 😂

Who would have developed all of this wondrous technology after the Nazi's had wiped out the intellectuals completely, shut down the Universities and changed education to be based on Goebbels' propaganda ministry rather than research?

Also, with the Bormann vs Goering vs Himmler power struggle at the top who would have succeeded an ailing and frail Hitler? The War against Japan and the oncoming Civil War would have destroyed the third reich and her technology.

Originally posted by jaden101
I believe you're thinking of William Spicer. His work was carried out in the 1950's if I recall correctly. Different type of technology altogether.

It was Percy Spicer.

And how about the first microwave being the radarange in 1947?

All I see is a bunch of informal sites and writers main reference to nazis microwaving their food on their assault against the Russians, but nothing legit.

That doesn't change the fact the even IF the Nazis were doing it first, the Americans discovered it independently of the Nazis.

Originally posted by jaden101
I'll be more specific. World's 1st functional program-controlled Turing-complete computer.

Which it was labeled as in 1998...hardly the effort of the time. That's a bit misleading.

Originally posted by jaden101
Predates the Reich being in power but not the Nazi party having large influence in German politics. Max Knol and Ernst Ruska were both supporters of the Nazi party and reciepients of numerous awards by them.

Does not change the fact that they were NOT part of the Reich's "scientific" endeavors. You're reaching.

Originally posted by jaden101
Again, we can be pedantic with regards to these things. You can attribute biological weapons to the middle age seiges when plague victims were catapulted over beseiged castle walls.

But we cannot as they didn't know about microbiology. They knew people would get sick from the sick. They didn't fully understand it until the late 18th century, if I remember correctly.

Originally posted by jaden101
Not all bad then eh?

Mmhmm. I knew there was some good stuff. There's no way all of the discoveries came from America and the UK. Germany comes from a long line of "best in the world" philosophers and scientists. Surely SOMETHING awesome was spawned from the 3rd Reich...which was my logic in asking you.

Originally posted by jaden101
Sigmund Rascher actually had a hypothermia research lab at Dachau and Auschwitz. Although, to be fair, a lot of this data is now being rejected as scientifically unsound although this isn't the case with data from experiments following on from the Nazi experiments.

If they had taken a bit more of a scientific approach, the sadistic "experiments" it would be much more useful.

Originally posted by jaden101
Are you referring to Percy Spencer? If so, that was 1946. The Germans were using the technology several years before under the name "radiomissor"

Oh, so now his name is Percy?

AHA! lol

Okay. I found hits for Radiomissor. Sites came up that were a bit more credible.

Still, it doesn't change the fact that Americans developed it, independently from the 3rd Reich..and not very long at all, after the Nazis were doing it, either.

Originally posted by jaden101
Using, in many cases, German scientists and captured German technology.

You mean, in very few and rare cases. Not even fission can be credited to the 3rd Reich. It was an idea that started OUTSIDE of Germany before the 3rd Reich.

If anything, it was the 3rd Reich that used OTHERS ideas and expounded on them...and not the other way around. Of course, there were things, as you have factually proven, that they developed that no one else did....but a shit load of more unique and useful things were done outside the 3rd Reich, before, during, and especially after WWII.

If they had taken a bit more of a scientific approach, the sadistic "experiments" it would be much more useful.

I 100% agree.

Oh, so now his name is Percy?

I was trying to remember off the top of my head. I forget things. It happens.

If anything, it was the 3rd Reich that used OTHERS ideas and expounded on them...and not the other way around. Of course, there were things, as you have factually proven, that they developed that no one else did....but a shit load of more unique and useful things were done outside the 3rd Reich, before, during, and especially after WWII.

Which is, again, why I said

or further developed

Way back near the beginning of this debate.

Which also brings us full circle to my point about their spending being higher (and if they'd won and continued their polices, still would be) and so we'd be further on with regards to many technologies now.

You mean, in very few and rare cases. Not even fission can be credited to the 3rd Reich. It was an idea that started OUTSIDE of Germany before the 3rd Reich.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Hardly small time recruitment.

* Rudolph 'Rolf' Ammann
* Rudi Beichel
* Werner Dahm
* Konrad Dannenberg
* Kurt H. Debus
* Ernst R. G. Eckert
* Krafft Arnold Ehricke
* Ernst Geissler
* Dieter Grau
* Walter Häussermann
* Karl Heimburg
* Otto Hirschler
* Helmut Hoelzer
* Hans Hueter
* Wilhelm Jungert
* Heinz-Hermann Koelle
* Hermann H. Kurzweg
* Hans Maus
* Fritz Mueller
* Willy Mrazek
* Erich W. Neubert
* Theodor A. Poppel
* Eberhard Rees
* Gerhard Reisig
* Georg Rickhey
* Werner Rosinski
* Arthur Rudolph
* Harry Ruppe
* August Schulze
* Walter Schwidetzky
* Ernst Stuhlinger
* Bernhard Tessmann
* Adolf Thiel
* Wernher von Braun
* Albert Zeiler

This is only 1 operation. Again there was the British plans to take and force to work some 150,000 German scientists, mathematicians, technicians etc simply so the Soviet Union couldn't.

http://hitlernews.cloudworth.com/nazi-scientists.php

There's a few links on that page to further examples.

One idea the Nazis did steal from the US...Eugenics...Oh the irony.

😆

Originally posted by jaden101
One idea the Nazis did steal from the US...Eugenics...Oh the irony.

😆

Originally posted by jaden101
😆 ****...So I did.

I'll get back to you on that.

Don't let it happen again. If you do, I'll drink your lager when you look away and then go "AHHHHHH" really loud in your face right after chugging your drink.

Originally posted by jaden101
Here's a few scientists opinions on current levels of spending on scientific research in western countries

http://www.firstscience.com/home/perspectives/editorials/us-2008-science-budget-slashed_41445.html

From

http://www.portfolio.com/views/columns/natural-selection/2008/06/04/Science-Spending-Debate

http://www.scienceonline.org/cgi/content/summary/311/5757/28

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg13718580.500-british-industry-cuts-research-to-the-bone--.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_funding_of_science#World_War_II

Indeed. We need more funding.

However, the government shouldn't be doing direct funding, imo. It should come from the private sector with incentives or subsidies. The work should be done in the private sector, for the most part, which it is...but the government shouldn't directly pay them for it.

Originally posted by jaden101
While Himmler himself was actually regarded as highly unintelligent, it was his attitude to science and his interest in science that forced the issue of high levels of funding for science in the Reich. It was he who pushed for the setting up of the "Ahnenerbe" institutes which researched the following.

* Gesamte Naturwissenschaft ("Natural Science"😉
* Darstellende und angewandte Naturkunde ("Descriptive and Applied Natural History"😉
* Biologie ("Biology"😉
* Entomologie ("Entomology"😉
* Astronomie ("Astronomy"😉
* Pferdezucht ("Horse Breeding"😉
* Botanik ("Botany"😉
* Pflanzengenetik ("Plant Genetics"😉
* Karst- und Höhlenkunde ("Speleology"😉
* Naturwissenschaftliche Vorgeschichte ("Scientific History"😉
* Tiergeographie und Tiergeschichte ("Zoogeography and Animal Stories"😉
* Angewandte Geologie ("Applied Geology"😉
* Geologische Zeitmessung ("Geochronology"😉
* Geophysik ("Geophysics"😉
* Kernphysik ("Nuclear Physics"😉
* Volksmedizin ("Folk Medicine"😉
* Osteologie ("Osteology"😉
* Ueberprüfung der sogenannten Geheimwissenschaften ("Survey of the so-called occult sciences"😉
* Wehrwissenschaftliche Zweckforschung ("Military Scientific Research"😉

As well as social sciences such as.

* Indogermanisch-arische Sprach- und Kulturwissenschaft (Indogermanic-aryan Language and Cultural Studies)
* Indogermanisch-germanische Sprach- und Kullturwissenschaft (Indogermanic-Germanic Language and Cultural Studies)
* Germanische Kulturwissenschaft und Landschaftskunde (Germanic Cultural Studies and Landscape Science)
* Germanische Sprachwissenschaft und Landschaftskunde (Germanic Linguistics and Landscape Science)
* Indogermanische Glaubengeshichte (Indogermanic Faith history)
* Indogermanische Rechtsgeschichte (Indogermanic Historical jurisprudence)
* Indogermanisch-deutsche Musik (Indogermanic-German Music)
* Germanisch-deutsch Volkskunde (Germanic-German Folklore)
* Deutsche Volksforschung und Volkskunde (German Ethnic Research and Folklore)
* Volkserzählung, Märchen und Sagenkunde (Folktales, Fairytales and Myths)
* Runen, Schrift und Sinnbildkunde (Runes, Alphabets, and Symbols)
* Hausmarken und Sippenzeichen (House Brands and Family Marks)
* Ortung und Landschaftssinnbilder (Location and Landscape symbols)
* Ausgrabungen (Excavations)
* Germanisches Bauwesen (Germanic Architecture)
* Wurtenforschung (Dwelling Mound Research)
* Urgeschichte (Prehistory)
* Keltische Volksforschung (Celtic ethnic research)
* Indogermanisch-finnische Kulturbeziehungen (Indogermanic-Finnish cultural relations)
* Klassische Archäologie (Classic Archaeology)
* Klassische Altertumswissenschaft (Classical Antiquity)
* Alte Geschichte (Ancient History)
* Mittlere und Neuere Geschichte (Middle and Modern History)
* Griechische Philologie (Greek Philology)
* Lateinische Philologie (Latin Philology)
* Mittellatein (Medieval Latin)
* Innerasien und Expeditionen (Inner Asia and Expeditions)
* Vorderer Orient (Near East)
* Ostasien-Institut (East Asian Institute)
* Orientalistische Indologie (Oriental Indology)
* Nordwestafrikanische Kulturwissenschaft (Northwest African Cultural Studies)
* Philosophie (Philosophy)

Although the later was more to try and prove that the Aryan nation was superior to others.

But, your main point is funding. What about numbers, man? What about funding relative to GDP? That's what I'm looking for. Something tangible.

Originally posted by jaden101
He tested a lot of different drugs against a lot of different microbes. Granted, he did in the most horribles ways possible. In some cases, cutting large wounds in people's legs then stitching contaminated wood into the wounds and letting them fester.

I've already linked to what he did. Can't remember which link it was though.

You didn't link anything to him.

My question was rhetorical. What did he REALLY do that was of any use? I don't think any of his tests resulted in anything useful.

Originally posted by jaden101
I agree. His obsession with twins was astoundingly ****ed up. As were his experiments..

Indeed. He is the stuff of sadistic legends.

Originally posted by jaden101
One is non programmable, one is fully programmable.

No, they were both "programmable". That's exactly how computers worked back then.

Originally posted by jaden101
To simply argue that everything is an evolution of everything else, technology wise doesn't negate my points.

Glad I'm not doing that, then. I'm citing independent technologies developed elsewhere that are comparable.

Depends on your perspective...but the ABC computer was actually more useful in the real world.

Originally posted by jaden101
It was the seemingly unassuming part about coal dust and wood glue I was getting at...Should've made that clear though. My bad.

What are you talking about?The Horton brothers?

Originally posted by jaden101
I don't see how Fleming discovering one things detracts from Nazi scientists discovering something completely different.[/bquote]

Simple: Immunology.

What Alexander Fleming did with the "cillins" was far more significant than what the Nazis found out about that bacteria. The antibiotic discoveries that came from Flemming and subsequent related discoveries is far more important, applicable, and long lasting that figuring out the secret of a "home remedy" of some Arabs, which is more point.

[QUOTE=12067888]Originally posted by jaden101
Using it for military purposes, however, was.

Yes, VERY bright idea, wasn't it? 😄 (That's sarcasm, btw.)

You're forgetting about an actual "augmentation" that was useful, long term, that the Germans did: Anabolic Steroids.

IMO, that was far more useful than those drugs. If they would have had more time, they may have been able to figure out cycles, with off times on things like Clomid. What they did with Anabolic steroids is something FAR ahead of it's time...one thing that would really help get your point across.

Originally posted by jaden101
I 100% agree.

We could have gotten some great stuff out of that...had they had other motives other than "how can we kill them and justify it as science today, Henrich?"

Originally posted by jaden101
I was trying to remember off the top of my head. I forget things. It happens.

😆

Dude, I was just messin' with you.

Originally posted by jaden101
Which also brings us full circle to my point about their spending being higher (and if they'd won and continued their polices, still would be) and so we'd be further on with regards to many technologies now.

No we wouldn't have. More stuff came from OTHER locations other than the 3rd Reich. Which, this is what my point has been. I've been told what you're telling me, many times before, but I haven't really seen someone try to prove it. It is more like an urban legend with very little fact to back it up. One could, more correctly, say that WWII brought about tons of new and useful technologies from AMERICA and RUSSIA.

Originally posted by jaden101
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
Hardly small time recruitment.

[omitted for space]

This is only 1 operation. Again there was the British plans to take and force to work some 150,000 German scientists, mathematicians, technicians etc simply so the Soviet Union couldn't.

http://hitlernews.cloudworth.com/nazi-scientists.php

There's a few links on that page to further examples.

One idea the Nazis did steal from the US...Eugenics...Oh the irony.

😆

This doesn't change that fission was first an American discovery. The project during WWII was also headed by an American: Roberts Oppenheimer.

And I'd say the best dude for Eugenics is Galton. He was an Englishman.

No, they were both "programmable". That's exactly how computers worked back then.

From the very 1st line of your link.

The Atanasoff–Berry Computer (ABC) was the world's first electronic digital computer[1], but it was not programmable.[2]

What are you talking about?The Horton brothers?

Yes. The 1st experiments with stealth technology.

You're forgetting about an actual "augmentation" that was useful, long term, that the Germans did: Anabolic Steroids.

You Nazi sympathizer, you.

No we wouldn't have. More stuff came from OTHER locations other than the 3rd Reich. Which, this is what my point has been. I've been told what you're telling me, many times before, but I haven't really seen someone try to prove it. It is more like an urban legend with very little fact to back it up.

Except for that huge bit about Himmler and the Ahnenerbe.

One could, more correctly, say that WWII brought about tons of new and useful technologies from AMERICA and RUSSIA

Post war only because the won. It's common knowlege that both the US and USSR's space rocket and ballistic missle technology was pressed on by German scientists from the Nazi regime. If the Nazis had won, they'd still be working for Germany.

As for figures. They are hard to come by for purely science but it should be noted that as a % of GDP, spending in Germany rose across the board from about 14.9% to 33.9% which is increased further because of an increased size of economy between 1929 and 1939. This is noted in the book "The Nazi economic recovery" by RJ Overy.

Couple this with Himmler's influence over policy and his stance toward science and what I previously mentioned about his Ahnenerbe institutes then it's easy to see what effect this would have on Germany.

Then, of course, there is the fact that post WW1 Germany was a shattered and ruined country and stayed that way pretty much until the Nazis rose to power. They used their money making sectors such as agriculture and heavy industry to fund their research into more technology.

I also thought it was crafty of Germany, post WW1 both before and after the rise of the Nazis, to circumvent many of the stipulation placed upon them by the allies in regards to military spending by doing it though civilian organisations...For example, they funding aerodynamic technological development by funding things such as glider clubs to stupidly high levels...and noone noticed
😆