If you had one wish, what would you wish for?

Originally posted by jaden101
From the very 1st line of your link.

By their definition, it was not. That doesn't mean it wasn't programmable by another definition, which is still correct.

If the parameters can be changed, it is programmable. They could be changed as it was "adaptive" to the systems of equations. Therefore, it was programmable from a certain point of view.

Oops. Forgot about the rest.

Originally posted by jaden101
Yes. The 1st experiments with stealth technology.

Cool. However, they were generally disliked by the other aeronautical "leaders" in the 3rd Reich. They are lucky to do what they did.

Doesn't change the fact that they did awesome things during WWII under the 3rd Reich, though.

Originally posted by jaden101
You Nazi sympathizer, you.

I sympathize with some things...such as their poor conditions after WWI. They rose up for the right reasons, but did it the wrong way.

Oppression is oppression is oppression. Even if the oppressed become the much bigger villain in the end...it's still oppression.

Originally posted by jaden101
Except for that huge bit about Himmler and the Ahnenerbe.

What? Hardly significant.

We discovered far more about the Vikings little world trips than they did.

Originally posted by jaden101
Post war only because the won. It's common knowlege that both the US and USSR's space rocket and ballistic missle technology was pressed on by German scientists from the Nazi regime. If the Nazis had won, they'd still be working for Germany.

No, the biggest leaps in rocket technology came FROM Russia, prior to WWII.

Had the war never happened, we would have had space rockets sooner from Russia.

Originally posted by jaden101
As for figures. They are hard to come by for purely science but it should be noted that as a % of GDP, spending in Germany rose across the board from about 14.9% to 33.9% which is increased further because of an increased size of economy between 1929 and 1939. This is noted in the book "The Nazi economic recovery" by RJ Overy.

I'm still wanting something substantial from you to back up your claim.

Let me tell you where I'm coming from:

I would certainly like to bring that to the table and say that the 3rd Reich was a wonderful regime for science, in some sort of discussion or debate that could happen. These types of facts are fun. (Yes, that's right. I said FUN! and I meant it! FUN! As in, jovial, happy, etc.)

Originally posted by jaden101
Couple this with Himmler's influence over policy and his stance toward science and what I previously mentioned about his Ahnenerbe institutes then it's easy to see what effect this would have on Germany.

Then, of course, there is the fact that post WW1 Germany was a shattered and ruined country and stayed that way pretty much until the Nazis rose to power. They used their money making sectors such as agriculture and heavy industry to fund their research into more technology.

Himmler was an idiot who liked sparkly things and explosions.

He would have loved Transformers 2. 😆

Originally posted by jaden101
I also thought it was crafty of Germany, post WW1 both before and after the rise of the Nazis, to circumvent many of the stipulation placed upon them by the allies in regards to military spending by doing it though civilian organisations...For example, they funding aerodynamic technological development by funding things such as glider clubs to stupidly high levels...and noone noticed
😆

This is true..."but what would YOU do in a situation like that?"*

*Napoleon Dynamite.

I'm still wanting something substantial from you to back up your claim.

So citing thoroughly researched factual books isn't a substantial source?

Himmler was an idiot who liked sparkly things and explosions.

Very true. He also happened to be hugely influential as to what Reich money was spent on.

He would have loved Transformers 2.

Well then there really was no hope for him. 😛

Originally posted by dadudemon
On top of that, there's the problem of entropy. Eventually, an immortals protons would all break down due to entropy. They'd die, anyway. It really isn't immortality, but just living a really long effin' time.

Or even worse, they wouldn't.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
No, but what are the odds of me pissing off a vampire and having her show me my painting?

Oh God, your knowledge of Dorian Gray comes solely from the godawful movie "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh God, your knowledge of Dorian Gray comes solely from the godawful movie "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"

Still better than "The Picture of Dorian Gray", which is just . . . just awful.

Originally posted by jaden101
So citing thoroughly researched factual books isn't a substantial source?

I don't have the book. I certainly can't read it.

And it doesn't have any hard numbers to prove your point. Isn't it just mere speculation?

Surely there's something "hard" out there that gives us some numbers...even if it is almost like a meta-analysis.

Originally posted by jaden101
Very true. He also happened to be hugely influential as to what Reich money was spent on.

✅

Originally posted by jaden101
Well then there really was no hope for him. 😛

Sure there was. I liked T2. awesome

(Don't say it. 😠 )

Originally posted by Bardock42
Oh God, your knowledge of Dorian Gray comes solely from the godawful movie "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"

I gave that movie a 6 out of 10. It wasn't THAT bad.

I also say, quite often, "I'm waiting to be impressed."

I don't have the book. I certainly can't read it. And it doesn't have any hard numbers to prove your point. Isn't it just mere speculation?

It's a standard textbook for Cambridge University students and has an extensive bibliography. Its figures are sound.

Sure there was. I liked T2. (Don't say it. mad )

Saying nothing. 😆

Originally posted by jaden101
It's a standard textbook for Cambridge University students and has an extensive bibliography. Its figures are sound.

So, other than an increased amount of money being spent on government in general, do you have anything more specific to 3rd Reich SCIENCE investments? hmmmm?

I'll even figure up the inflation, myself. I just want numbers.

Originally posted by jaden101
Saying nothing. 😆

😆

It's okay...Sadako and others have given me plenty of trouble for my opinion on it.

Edit -
Also, I edited my post...not this one, silly...the one you quoted.

So, other than an increased amount of money being spent on government in general, do you have anything more specific to 3rd Reich SCIENCE investments? hmmmm? I'll even figure up the inflation, myself. I just want numbers.

As I said. Direct figures are hard to come by but extrapolation is obvious...If spending was up and scientific research was a priority then it stands to reason that scientific spending went up.

The basic fact is, though, that scientific research was a priority...Regardless of figures...It just isn't in the western world. Not just currently because of the economic problems but it always has been.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3321852/Science-Funding-cuts-threaten-scientific-research.html

For example, this one was a rather big issue in the UK at the beginning of last year because it may have meant the UK pulling out of the LHC project.

There is noone in high office in the UK or the US that was so vehement about the funding of science as Himmler was in the Reich. Granted, he was an idiot who knew little about science himself. No different from most politicians in that regard though...But he did push science. In some aspects he was completely delusional though. Read Himmler's crusade to see just how much so.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Himmlers-Crusade/Christopher-Hale/e/9780471262923

http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/science/scientific-research-funding-neglected-$1220805.htm

In any event if you had one wish there are much better and more reliable ways to get advanced technology that saying 'I wish Hitler had won'.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In any event if you had one wish there are much better and more reliable ways to get advanced technology that saying 'I wish Hitler had won'.

Guess I forgot to mention the bit about me hating Jews then?

Damn...Always miss something out.

Originally posted by jaden101
Guess I forgot to mention the bit about me hating Jews then?

Damn...Always miss something out.

No, I think you were just trying to sound edgy . . .

Also it wasn't just Jews. You'd have to hate Gypsys, anyone Russian looking, gay people, freemasons, anyone expressing political thought and Jehovah's Witnesses enough to systematically kill them.

Originally posted by jaden101
As I said. Direct figures are hard to come by but extrapolation is obvious...If spending was up and scientific research was a priority then it stands to reason that scientific spending went up.

But we need numbers or percentage's relative to GDP to even make a comparison to other current countries. If you're are to prove your point, you have to bring those numbers out.

Originally posted by jaden101
The basic fact is, though, that scientific research was a priority...Regardless of figures...It just isn't in the western world. Not just currently because of the economic problems but it always has been.

But, it is. Not a main priority, but new technologies are created all the time.

In fact, to your likely chagrin, more scientific discoveries are being made now, than ever before. You do know that scientific papers being published is increasing exponentially, over time, right?

Per person, far more science is being done than it was during WWII.

Originally posted by jaden101
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/3321852/Science-Funding-cuts-threaten-scientific-research.html

For example, this one was a rather big issue in the UK at the beginning of last year because it may have meant the UK pulling out of the LHC project.

This does nothing to prove your point, though.

Originally posted by jaden101
There is noone in high office in the UK or the US that was so vehement about the funding of science as Himmler was in the Reich. Granted, he was an idiot who knew little about science himself. No different from most politicians in that regard though...But he did push science. In some aspects he was completely delusional though. Read Himmler's crusade to see just how much so.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Himmlers-Crusade/Christopher-Hale/e/9780471262923

I won't waste my time. I already know he was a quack. No need to further that idea, right. A synopsis should suffice.

Originally posted by dadudemon
.

Almost half?

I didn't know that. I've never heard before.

Where did you get this information?

I studied WWII very extensively during the late 70s thru the mid 80s. At the time it was a huge fascination for me. I've read numerous books on the subject, probably around 30 or so.

A few good ones are (though probably somewhat dated now)

"Hitler and Stalin, parallel lives" by Alan Bullock
"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, a history of Nazi Germany" by William Shirer.
"Justice at Nuremberg" by Robert Conot
"Beria, Stalins first Lieutenant" by Amy Knight

It's estimated that Stalin eliminated around 10 million of his own countrymen during WWII (and that's not counting the purges of the 30s) via the NKVD, the forerunner of the KGB

Originally posted by Nemesis X
I wish that whenever a new game gets released, that game will automatically appear in front of me and I'll never have to pay $60 for another one again. A gamer's dream.

Sorry, I own Activision stock, so I hope your wish never comes true (at least the not paying part) 😎

But we need numbers or percentage's relative to GDP to even make a comparison to other current countries. If you're are to prove your point, you have to bring those numbers out.

Why? Is the fact that most leading scientists opinion is that nowhere near enough gets spent on science in the west not a valid enough reason?

But, it is. Not a main priority, but new technologies are created all the time.

True...A lot of which is the stereotypical mad inventor in their Garden shed. Quite safe to say that we'd be far more advanced if more was spent on it though.

In fact, to your likely chagrin, more scientific discoveries are being made now, than ever before. You do know that scientific papers being published is increasing exponentially, over time, right?

True. And i'm all for science research for understanding of known mechanisms (As a huge amount of current science is based around) but it's not the same as science research for the creation of technology.

I've had the pleasure of learning under Professor David Bremner and Dr Ashok Adya. One is currently researching and publishing on new technologies and has patents to his name in forensics (a new method of detecting fingerprints on clothing) sonochemisty and green technology and water technologies. The other publishes findings on nanotechnology and AFM but doesn't actively advance the technology. He uses it to understand protein mechanisms and other biological mechanisms and chemical mechanisms. The focus under the Nazi regime would be under technological development. Invention.

Per person, far more science is being done than it was during WWII.

If you're taking into consideration the massive amounts of papers being generated on the social sciences of psychology, sociology etc then I agree. I wont bother voicing my own opinion of that science though. Needless to say that I call my friends who studied forensic psychobiology and criminology as doing "mickey mouse science".

But hey...I'm a prick that way.

This does nothing to prove your point, though.

That science isn't a priority in the west like it was in Nazi Germany?...I think it does. In fact I know it does.

Originally posted by The Dark Cloud
I studied WWII very extensively during the late 70s thru the mid 80s. At the time it was a huge fascination for me. I've read numerous books on the subject, probably around 30 or so.

A few good ones are (though probably somewhat dated now)

"Hitler and Stalin, parallel lives" by Alan Bullock
"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, a history of Nazi Germany" by William Shirer.
"Justice at Nuremberg" by Robert Conot
"Beria, Stalins first Lieutenant" by Amy Knight

It's estimated that Stalin eliminated around 10 million of his own countrymen during WWII (and that's not counting the purges of the 30s) via the NKVD, the forerunner of the KGB

Cool.

Do you have something more tangible? Like a website?

I thought the internal numbers were closer to a million, but not 50%.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Cool.

Do you have something more tangible? Like a website?

Websites are not substitutes for books...Never will be.

Originally posted by jaden101
True. And i'm all for science research for understanding of known mechanisms (As a huge amount of current science is based around) but it's not the same as science research for the creation of technology.

I've had the pleasure of learning under Professor David Bremner and Dr Ashok Adya. One is currently researching and publishing on new technologies and has patents to his name in forensics (a new method of detecting fingerprints on clothing) sonochemisty and green technology and water technologies. The other publishes findings on nanotechnology and AFM but doesn't actively advance the technology. He uses it to understand protein mechanisms and other biological mechanisms and chemical mechanisms. The focus under the Nazi regime would be under technological development. Invention.

I see a serious practical problem in moving technology forward without understanding the mechanisms behind it. Namely, you can't. Not reliably at least.

Originally posted by jaden101
Why? Is the fact that most leading scientists opinion is that nowhere near enough gets spent on science in the west not a valid enough reason?

Certainly not when you haven't substantiated your claim.

You said: "The level of technological and scientific investment would be massive and we would be far more advanced now that we currently are."

In this particular case, you mean "massive" as a relative term: relative to the current investment.

But how relative? Actual amounts adjusted for inflation? Probably not, as that isn't as comparable. You probably meant as a function of GDP or total world GDP.

You need to substantiate that claim. You have not done so.

If you cannot, then it is mere unproven speculation that can be disproven.

Originally posted by jaden101
True...A lot of which is the stereotypical mad inventor in their Garden shed. Quite safe to say that we'd be far more advanced if more was spent on it though.

I agree. If more private money were spent on R&D, we'd be far more advanced.

Originally posted by jaden101
True. And i'm all for science research for understanding of known mechanisms (As a huge amount of current science is based around) but it's not the same as science research for the creation of technology.

The creation of new technologies is ALSO increasing at an exponential rate.

If you were right about the Nazis, then the exponential rate would be steeper.

Originally posted by jaden101
I've had the pleasure of learning under Professor David Bremner and Dr Ashok Adya. One is currently researching and publishing on new technologies and has patents to his name in forensics (a new method of detecting fingerprints on clothing) sonochemisty and green technology and water technologies. The other publishes findings on nanotechnology and AFM but doesn't actively advance the technology. He uses it to understand protein mechanisms and other biological mechanisms and chemical mechanisms. The focus under the Nazi regime would be under technological development. Invention.

Cool.

And, more invention in newer and ground breaking technologies are occuring now, per person, than ever before.

The Golden Age, imo, was right after WWII. More stuff or the groundwork for stuff came from 1945-1970.

Originally posted by jaden101
If you're taking into consideration the massive amounts of papers being generated on the social sciences of psychology, sociology etc then I agree. I wont bother voicing my own opinion of that science though. Needless to say that I call my friends who studied forensic psychobiology and criminology as doing "mickey mouse science".

But hey...I'm a prick that way.

No, I'm talking about all sciences.

Originally posted by jaden101
That science isn't a priority in the west like it was in Nazi Germany?...I think it does. In fact I know it does.

I disagree. Science is a higher priority in the West than it has ever been in all of history.