YuLaw versus Neo....

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
God-LIKE, hence my comment.

Then that makes you wrong. Why is it not obvious to you? He is not anywhere near a god. God-like is a misnomer on your part. The end.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He could have, though. That's the point.

He couldn't have, though. That was actually the point.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He saved Trinity's life by resurrecting the dead, he proved he could do it, so why are we assuming he couldn't do it to anyone else? Your logic says "Because he didn't.". Who else could he have saved that was worth saving in the grand scheme of things, AT that time or after? He DID do it, we've seen him do it. It's illogical to say "But he didn't do it more.", and have that as your basis.

No, he didn't do it to anyone else because he couldn't. Trinity was his connection that made him The One. Neo would have done it to everyone else that died afterwards, but he doesn't, because he can't.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
As Rob said, he was given a choice. If he wasn't anything more than another part of the prophecy or the program, he'd have reinserted it and restarted the cycle. Did he? No. He went above the two programs that can claim to be more powerful and CHANGED it all. It's Neo's doing that caused everything to change, he resurrected reality in a way. He did so by breaking apart everything those "above him" claimed to be doing. He then not only handled the cataclysmic consequences of going against the system, but overcame them and saved everyone by doing so.

Correct. I covered this already. 🙂

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
So yes, he was definitely above and beyond the single role you claim he was limited to.

No. He wasn't. I explained why, as well.

Other than being smarter than the others, there's nothing to indicate that he was better in any way the others were. The Architect is not surprised at all by Neo's abilities.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
He was not meant to do what he did, but he did. So your whole "limited to the prophecy" argument is nonsense. There was no prophecy, there was programming, which he was above and beyond. He was beyond his creators.

-AC

That's a strawman argument, sir. That's not what I was talking about.

Try again. I'll give you a hint: ability.

Originally posted by dadudemon
He couldn't have, though. That was actually the point.

No, he didn't do it to anyone else because he couldn't. Trinity was his connection that made him The One. Neo would have done it to everyone else that got afterwards, but he doesn't, because he can't.

Everyone else? Like who?

He WAS the One ANYWAY, Trinity did not make him so. The Oracle just said "Oh hey, you're gonna fall in love and he's gonna be the One.". Not "He's gonna be that because you're going to make him.".

He resurrected her because he could do it. It's never stated that the only reason he could do it is because she made him the One. To think, you're sitting there telling me I don't get The Matrix, and you claim Trinity MADE Neo the One.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Correct. I covered this already. 🙂

[QUOTE=12097900]Originally posted by dadudemon
[B]No. He wasn't. I explained why, as well.

Other than being smarter than the others, there's nothing to indicate that he was better in any way the others were. The Architect is not surprised at all by Neo's abilities.

He isn't?

Neo: Why am I here?
The Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here. <---Part of the plan, hence no surprise.
Neo: You haven't answered my question. <---Not part of the plan. Hence...
The Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others. <---Surprise.

Why would he find it interesting and state, with surprise, that it was quicker than the others? It's implied that what's interesting is that he WAS quicker, smarter, more powerful. Why is that interesting to the Architect? Because he didn't expect it.

Use your head.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That's a strawman argument, sir. That's not what I was talking about.

Try again. I'll give you a hint: ability.

Point is; he is more powerful than you seem to believe.

You're wrong because you misunderstand the way this works. You think Neo is what he is because Trinity MADE him so, and you feel the Architect wasn't surprised by Neo's power.

-AC

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong, sir. He was limited by what The One programming allowed him to do.

Another form of control.

No. All it means is Neo was more arrogant and selfish than the others, thinking he could save the red pills AND save Trinity. Which both are true.

Neo was also smarter than the previous The Ones, as the architect indirectly indicated.

No. The previos The Ones didn't have a deep connection to humanity via one individual, like Neo did. That was the difference. The previous ones were connected to humanity in a more general way. That was explained by the Architect.

Neo didn't go against the programming at all. He just didn't fullfil his job as The One because of his selfishness and arrogance. It just so happens that it worked out in the end. It was a huge risk and Neo could have effed everything up.

If your claim to him being "limited" is true, he would have not chosen to save Trinity and would have entered the source door and played his role that he was supposed to. He didn't, he went above it.

Not fulfilling his job is going against his prophecy/programming, dude (see above). He was put in place to specifically do something a certain way, he choose not too, when he shouldn't have even had the ability to choose, ie he has the ability to do whatever he likes, he just needs to will himself to it.

Neo also proved the Architect wrong, as the Architect told him flat out that saving Trinity (ie going against his prophecy) would ultimately end with the complete destruction of the humans. So yeah, he's above the Architect too.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri

Everyone else? Like who?

He WAS the One ANYWAY, Trinity did not make him so. The Oracle just said "Oh hey, you're gonna fall in love and he's gonna be the One.". Not "He's gonna be that because you're going to make him.".

He resurrected her because he could do it. It's never stated that the only reason he could do it is because she made him the One. To think, you're sitting there telling me I don't get The Matrix, and you claim Trinity MADE Neo the One.

He isn't?

Neo: Why am I here?
[b]The Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here. <---Part of the plan, hence no surprise.
[b]Neo: You haven't answered my question. <---Not part of the plan. Hence...
[b]The Architect: Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others. <---Surprise.

Why would he find it interesting and state, with surprise, that it was quicker than the others? It's implied that what's interesting is that he WAS quicker, smarter, more powerful. Why is that interesting to the Architect? Because he didn't expect it.

Use your head.

Point is; he is more powerful than you seem to believe.

You're wrong because you misunderstand the way this works. You think Neo is what he is because Trinity MADE him so, and you feel the Architect wasn't surprised by Neo's power.

-AC

Your are almost beneath me to warrant a response.

Re-edit your post and I'll make an effort to repond.

In the mean time, I'll respond to Robtard who seems to understand it better than you do.

Originally posted by Robtard
If your claim to him being "limited" is true,

But he is. Why is that even in question here?

Originally posted by Robtard
he would have not chosen to save Trinity and would have entered the source door and played his role that he was supposed to. He didn't, he went above it.

Using abilities that were not above and beyond what he is basically allowed to do, though, which is what I'm saying. He is a necessary part of the program.

He didn't make new abilities up.

Originally posted by Robtard
Not fulfilling his job is going against his prophecy/programming, dude (see above). He was put in place to specifically do something a certain way, he choose not too, when he shouldn't have even had the ability to choose, ie he has the ability to do whatever he likes, he just needs to will himself to it.

Each of the former The Ones could have done something similar, but they were not as smart as Neo. Neo thought he could go against the grain of what he was designed to do. He succeeded. Also, Neo's decisions could also be from his "connection" being to one individual instead of a more general one, the fact that there were so many before him, or that he had just a different personality than the others.

Originally posted by Robtard
Neo also proved the Architect wrong, as the Architect told him flat out that saving Trinity (ie going against his prophecy) would ultimately end with the complete destruction of the humans.

The architect was also wrong about his original matrix being perfect. The movies are about causality, balance, etc.

The Oracle balances out the Architects could calculating "perfection". The Oracle's additions made the blue pills stay in the matrix.

Originally posted by Robtard
So yeah, he's above the Architect too.

Smarter than the architect? In a certain way, yes. Above him in ability to manipulate things in the Matrix? No. Not even close.

The Architect designed the vast majority of the Matrix. HE made the rules, etc. Neo did not. He is a fluke, designed into the second version of the Matrix AFTER The Oracle made her additions. A fully accounted for fluke, according to the architect.

But we are straying off topic.

The topic is: In the Matrix, Neo is NOT a God, God-like, Virtaully a God, etc.

Edit- And before ANYONE says it in hopes of "destroying" my argument by pointing out where I got something wrong, yes, I am fully aware the Oracle also added suffereing and other little goodies the original Matrix. Bla bla bla.

If the Architect is God (for all intents and purposes) within the Matrix, yet Neo went against what he was supposed to do, how is he not above it all? He was supposed to do something a certain way, he didn't. He did something completely different than what the predetermined cycle was set. Ergo he is God-like within the Matrix, he went above it, when he believded he could.

You're being silly and ignoring that the very fact Neo broke the prophecy set before him (ie what could not be broken), means he alone was above it all. Just think about that.

You're also ignoring the prime rule: 'If Robtard disagrees with you, it's because you are wrong.'

Originally posted by dadudemon
Your post is too shitty to respond to.

Your are almost beneath me to warrant a response.

Re-edit your post and I'll make an effort to repond.

In the mean time, I'll respond to Robtard who seems to understand it better than you do.

That's what I thought.

Next time think before you try to challenge me.

-AC

Originally posted by Robtard
If the Architect is God (for all intents and purposes) within the Matrix,'[/i]

He is "God" by a certain point of view because he created the majority of that universe.

The Oracle and the Architect are much closer to being the "Gods of the Matrix" than Neo is.

Originally posted by Robtard
yet Neo went against what he was supposed to do, how is he not above it all?[/i]

He just didn't play into their plan. That's it.

They could have wiped him from The Matrix, but they didn't.

Originally posted by Robtard
He was supposed to do something a certain way, he didn't. He did something completely different than what the predetermined cycle was set. Ergo he is God-like within the Matrix, he went above it, when he believded he could.[/i]

No, that is wrong. He simply didn't do what he was designed to do.

Another "The One" would have come along and done the process. Humanity wasn't doomed.

The Matrix would have continued no problem. Most to all of Zion would have been wiped out, and people would become "red pills" when another "The One" did what the very first "The One" did.

If you want to get down to it, the original "The One" was more of a God than Neo.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're being silly and ignoring that the very fact Neo broke the prophecy set before him (ie what could not be broken), means he alone was above it all. Just think about that.[/i]

No, he wasn't above it all. He was all part of the plan. Neo just chose not to follow it. They allowed it. I explained one reason why they allowed him to not follow the plan. You could probably think of other reasons.

If I'm not mistaken, they really allowed him to not fulfill his programming because of Smith.

Originally posted by Robtard
You're also ignoring the prime rule: 'If Robtard disagrees with you, it's because you are wrong.'

😆

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
That's what I thought.

Next time think before you try to challenge me.

-AC

I am fully willing to reply to your excuse for a rebuttal. Just edit it and repost it. Dance for me.

I requested this thread closed, guys, so get your final shots in.

Closed at the request of the thread starter.