Black Adam vs Superman

Originally posted by Juntai
The problem is in the Flash rule, where if a character is proven to have a certain power, or level of power, then it becomes viable tactic debating the character. The list of people Flash has had trouble with even post-crisis fluctuates him around just the same, but because we know Flash's power would allow him to cakewalk Captain Cold, on the forum he does. Same is true for PC Superman, regardless of how many 1 vs 1s played out to make someone look good.

i'll disagree there, at least in principal. we've seen the flash rule played out to its illogical limit. pc supes's high feats NEED to be tempered by his low ones because the character HAS been shown to be so inconsistent. to look at just the high feats gives an incomplete and dishonest view of the character. i do NOT consider his 'low feats' (like struggling with adam) as PIS, because he fluctuated so wildly. it is JUST as easy to say his high feats are PIS.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
So you have no doubt PC Superman could have beaten PC Validus and PC Mongul down at some point also. K.

correct.

Originally posted by leonidas
i'll disagree there, at least in principal. we've seen the flash rule played out to its illogical limit. pc supes's high feats NEED to be tempered by his low ones because the character HAS been shown to be so inconsistent. to look at just the high feats gives an incomplete and dishonest view of the character. i do NOT consider his 'low feats' (like struggling with adam) as PIS, because he fluctuated so wildly. it is JUST as easy to say his high feats are PIS.

👆

People romanticize the crap out of Pre-Crisis characters.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
👆

People romanticize the crap out of Pre-Crisis characters.

I just don't read them. Bar a couple of Superman issues/annuals, the Red Tornado mini and some GL stuff, pre crisis has zero appeal to me.

I genuinely can't wait for the day when people stop bringing it up altogether...

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
👆

People romanticize the crap out of Pre-Crisis characters.

There were a lot of awesome stories.

For the Man Who Has Everything just gets better with age.

I just can't understand why people like Red Tornado. His classic version was amazing (and he was actually the most powerful being on the planet "back then"😉 but DC ruined the character.

Originally posted by carver9
I just can't understand why people like Red Tornado. His classic version was amazing (and he was actually the most powerful being on the planet "back then"😉 but DC ruined the character.

He was arguably one of the most powerful, and it was for a VERY short time.

How did they ruin him?

Originally posted by -Pr-
He was arguably one of the most powerful, and it was for a VERY short time.

How did they ruin him?

Naah, at one point "he WAS" the most powerful...it was brought up too many times for it not to be true and then he stomped the entire JLA without getting a scratch (classic issue).

In the past he use to have personality...now he is a full grown android/robot.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, at one point "he WAS" the most powerful...it was brought up too many times for it not to be true and then he stomped the entire JLA without getting a scratch (classic issue).

In the past he use to have personality...now he is a full grown android/robot.

He was arguably the most powerful. You're talking about his mini? Or something else?

No, he isn't. He has a personality, and that hasn't changed one bit. The reason he acted like a robot recently was because he was still coming to terms with losing his human body. They've just expanded more on his tech, but that hasn't changed his actual mind.

Originally posted by -Pr-
He was arguably the most powerful. You're talking about his mini? Or something else?

No, he isn't. He has a personality, and that hasn't changed one bit. The reason he acted like a robot recently was because he was still coming to terms with losing his human body. They've just expanded more on his tech, but that hasn't changed his actual mind.

I'm referencing his classic JLA team-up. He held back tremendously due to his powerlevel and at one point he lost control and created a tornado above Earth that was going to engulf the entire planet (can't remember the issue#...been 15+ years since I read it). I don't know why you keep saying "one of the most powerful...if anyone was close to him it was the precrisis Supes and Red Tornado ran through him as well.

Imo, he was the most powerful.

Wow...you truly don't see a personality change with the character. He isn't showing anything resembling anything involving him having a personality. Imo, time has turned him more into a Vision like character. I cant relate to heros like that.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm referencing his classic JLA team-up. He held back tremendously due to his powerlevel and at one point he lost control and created a tornado above Earth that was going to engulf the entire planet (can't remember the issue#...been 15+ years since I read it). I don't know why you keep saying "one of the most powerful...if anyone was close to him it was the precrisis Supes and Red Tornado ran through him as well.

Imo, he was the most powerful.

Wow...you truly don't see a personality change with the character. He isn't showing anything resembling anything involving him having a personality. Imo, time has turned him more into a Vision like character. I cant relate to heros like that.

It being your opinion is fine. Stating it as fact = not the same thing.

What change are you talking about? When did this supposed change happen?

Originally posted by -Pr-
It being your opinion is fine. Stating it as fact = not the same thing.

What change are you talking about? When did this supposed change happen?

Have a question before I answer your question because I want you to see the big picture and me reading this post is making me see otherwise. If I show you proof that classic tornado was the most powerful being on the planet "will you accept it or is your mind made up"?

The change happened about 5 to 6 years ago. It's not the same character.

Originally posted by carver9
Have a question before I answer your question because I want you to see the big picture and me reading this post is making me see otherwise. If I show you proof that classic tornado was the most powerful being on the planet "will you accept it or is your mind made up"?

The change happened about 5 to 6 years ago. It's not the same character.

If such proof existed, I'd know about it.

So you're just forgetting what happened in JLA, then? And his own mini?

Originally posted by -Pr-
If such proof existed, I'd know about it.

So you're just forgetting what happened in JLA, then? And his own mini?

Did you read his classic appearances or the past 10 years and 'up to date' stuff?

Naah, I'm not forgetting that but if possible, please advise me of a scene that goes against what I am saying? Are you using anything during the Amazo run?

Originally posted by carver9
Did you read his classic appearances or the past 10 years and 'up to date' stuff?

Naah, I'm not forgetting that but if possible, please advise me of a scene that goes against what I am saying? Are you using anything during the Amazo run?

I've read every appearence of the second/android/john smith Red Tornado, so yes.

Of course I am, because it's the prime example. Red Tornado has always been emotionally inexperienced and immature; he loves his wife, and he loves his daughter, but he's always had an awkwardness about him that made him a little different from everybody else. There was a period similar to what you're talking about, but that was way back before Young Justice even. Since Young Justice, up through JLA and his mini, his personality has remained relatively consistent.

I really don't know where you're getting this idea from that there's been a radical change to his personality. He's been acting more distant lately, yes, but that's HIM, not dc. He's still the same guy.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I've read every appearence of the second/android/john smith Red Tornado, so yes.

Of course I am, because it's the prime example. Red Tornado has always been emotionally inexperienced and immature; he loves his wife, and he loves his daughter, but he's always had an awkwardness about him that made him a little different from everybody else. There was a period similar to what you're talking about, but that was way back before Young Justice even. Since Young Justice, up through JLA and his mini, his personality has remained relatively consistent.

I really don't know where you're getting this idea from that there's been a radical change to his personality. He's been acting more distant lately, yes, but that's HIM, not dc. He's still the same guy.

Hhhhmmm, you have a point. I am going to go back and read some of his latest stuff and i will PM you some of the scenes that I am talking about that goes against his character.

Originally posted by carver9
Hhhhmmm, you have a point. I am going to go back and read some of his latest stuff and i will PM you some of the scenes that I am talking about that goes against his character.

You can't pick single scenes. If you had a whole comic, or a whole arc, that would be different.

Originally posted by -Pr-
I just don't read them. Bar a couple of Superman issues/annuals, the Red Tornado mini and some GL stuff, pre crisis has zero appeal to me.

I genuinely can't wait for the day when people stop bringing it up altogether...

I liked some Superman stuff, most of the Green Lantern/Green Lantern Corps/Hard Traveling Heroes, and some odd issues here and there of Batman.

I don't mind PC stuff in theory, but when it comes to feat wars, people act like the PC Era was nothing but insane power levels and completely throw out anything else.

Also, Red Tornado is cool in my book.

Originally posted by -Pr-
You can't pick single scenes. If you had a whole comic, or a whole arc, that would be different.

Yeah, I'm going to give you issue #s. Trust me, its not just single scenes.