Originally posted by Digi
Drizzt Do'Urden? Not sure if he counts. But if he does, he's absolutely among the best on this list. He doesn't have the superhuman stats that a lot of these swordsmen do, but is just as fast and makes up for it with his skill.
Yeah Drow baby! w00t
Drizzt gets top place for being an elf. 😛 hey Digi this is OT stop trolling. 😒:
Originally posted by Digi
Drizzt Do'Urden? Not sure if he counts. But if he does, he's absolutely among the best on this list. He doesn't have the superhuman stats that a lot of these swordsmen do, but is just as fast and makes up for it with his skill. Artemis Entreri, while we're at it, but he's less known.
Though I most certainly agree he be one of the best, the dude a monster in sword fighting.
artimes enteri would be up there, so would drizzt father and jaraxle
Originally posted by Digi
I agree to a point. For power levels and feats, in-comic appearances are much, much better than bios. But for general information, sometimes bios are just as good or better.And the aspect of Ogun's bio that was posted was historical information about his origin. I would think that, aside from an obvious objection to the material (there has been none, even from you, thus far) that it would be as accurate as any source. The bio information that was posted was intended to refute the statement that he was a base level human who managed to survive for centuries. Clearly, he is much more than that, so the bio information was both relevant, correct, and refuted the statement made earlier in the thread.
If the information is flat-out wrong, please explain why. I haven't seen it yet, other than to call it a secondary source, which actually does not refute it upon rational grounds, but is an appeal to authority (or lack thereof).
Sorry I did not explain my self better, I was not trying to dismiss it by saying it was secondary source. I was commenting that Alf was excusing IZ of being miss informed on Ogun based on information he found on a websight, while IZ got his information directly from comics.
The info is not wrong, but then again it not competely informative. Ogun was nothing more then a human during the fuedal age of japan, but through the dark martial arts he achieved superhuman level abilities as well as immortality through a manner much like elektra achieved her TP or stick his amazing abilities.
Ogun achieve superhuman stat's through skill, dracula did not.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
Sorry I did not explain my self better, I was not trying to dismiss it by saying it was secondary source. I was commenting that Alf was excusing IZ of being miss informed on Ogun based on information he found on a websight, while IZ got his information directly from comics.
I think you're a liar thats exactly what you were trying to do.
Originally posted by Battlehammer
The info is not wrong, but then again it not competely informative. Ogun was nothing more then a human during the fuedal age of japan, but through the dark martial arts he achieved superhuman level abilities as well as immortality through a manner much like elektra achieved her TP or stick his amazing abilities.Ogun achieve superhuman stat's through skill, dracula did not.
Now you're trying to twist stuff around by saying that the info isnt wrong when you were implying that it was. Well if its not wrong that means its not true that Ogun got superhuman stats through martial art training but through sorcery. So is the info correct or not?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think you're a liar thats exactly what you were trying to do.Now you're trying to twist stuff around by saying that the info isnt wrong when you were implying that it was. Well if its not wrong that means its not true that Ogun got superhuman stats through martial art training but through sorcery. So is the info correct or not?
No I am not, I never thought it was completely incorrect, I found it amuzing that you would try and correct some one who using comic evidences, based on information you found on a websight.
Actaully it does not mean he did not get it through MA training. By studying the dark arts of ninjistu such as stick, elektra have done you can achieve superhuman abilities which is what Ogun did. His powers are very similar to sticks, such has TP, immortlaity ability to transfer ones spirit .
and balder's whole destiny was to die and set off ragnarok, so he's obviously not good enough with a sword to save his own ass.
also, onto the topic at hand, i don't believe elektra or stick possess inherently "superhuman" powers, in its most raw definition. any powers accessible through non-mystical, non-genetic, and presumably non-scientific means, would simply be within the realm of "human" possibility. they might not be exhibited by the majority of humanity, such as stick and daredevil's "radar sense," but it's implicitly stated that he gained that power through human means and not from the goop that blinded him. maybe the immortality, and the reincarnating soul are superhuman, but they also seem to be tricks of mysticism.
basically, it's not really possible to get "superhuman" powers through skill. there has to be an outside agent; most typically magic, science, genetics or some combination.
Originally posted by Disappear
and balder's whole destiny was to die and set off ragnarok, so he's obviously not good enough with a sword to save his own ass.also, onto the topic at hand, i don't believe elektra or stick possess inherently "superhuman" powers, in its most raw definition. any powers accessible through non-mystical, non-genetic, and presumably non-scientific means, would simply be within the realm of "human" possibility. they might not be exhibited by the majority of humanity, such as stick and daredevil's "radar sense," but it's implicitly stated that he gained that power through human means and not from the goop that blinded him. maybe the immortality, and the reincarnating soul are superhuman, but they also seem to be tricks of mysticism.
basically, it's not really possible to get "superhuman" powers through skill. there has to be an outside agent; most typically magic, science, genetics or some combination.
They gained there superhuman powers through MA training, yes even though it soudns crazy it through training in the dark arts of ninjistu and other MA. Yes it is superhuman, sorta like shiang-chi chi amping powers which also make him superhuman
Originally posted by BattlehammerActaully it does not mean he did not get it through MA training. By studying the dark arts of ninjistu such as stick, elektra have done you can achieve superhuman abilities which is what Ogun did. His powers are very similar to sticks, such has TP, immortlaity ability to transfer ones spirit .
Ogun isnt a member of the Hand. 😬 I'll have to double check but I think one of the founding members was a sorcerer.
Originally posted by Disappear
basically, it's not really possible to get "superhuman" powers through skill. there has to be an outside agent; most typically magic, science, genetics or some combination.
Are you now arguing that you cant get superhuman power from martial arts? 🤨 You know who Temugin is?
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Ogun isnt a member of the Hand. 😬 I'll have to double check but I think one of the founding members was a sorcerer.Are you now arguing that you cant get superhuman power from martial arts? 🤨 You know who Temugin is?
who cares if Ogun is a member of the hand or not, what does that have to do with anything?
lol for a second there I thought your second responses was to me.
Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Becuas you gave examples of members of the Hand he gained powers via training. How they train isnt going to be the same as how other people will train. 😬
Does not matter, they both gained there powers through training in martial arts, there training may have been slightly different but similar in nature, they all gained it through ninjistu.
you know what funny the marvel site completely ignores elektra telepathy amoung other abilities, further more why I hate this web sight bio section.
martial arts as a physical skill or training regimen, no, you wouldn't naturally be able to progress into the "superhuman" spectrum. anything your human body could accomplish would still be considered "human," because there's no real change to take it "beyond human."
"dark" martial arts implies mysticism, as i brought up with the whole immortality/reincarnated soul idea. that creates a baseline that is divergent from "human," thus "non-human," thus potentially "superhuman."
you can't learn a physical skill and become superhuman. you're either superhuman to start with, or your ability to perform said skill is still within the limit of human ability.
shang-chi is a strange case, depending on how you look at it. the idea of the life-energy, or chi, permeating every living being is relatively well accepted in many circles; particularly in comics. so his ability to manipulate his own life energy, like iron fist and many others do, might be within the limits of human ability. this is, again, assuming superhuman isn't defined as "unusual for a human," but as "beyond human ability."
Originally posted by Disappear
martial arts as a physical skill or training regimen, no, you wouldn't naturally be able to progress into the "superhuman" spectrum. anything your human body could accomplish would still be considered "human," because there's no real change to take it "beyond human."
Well first of all I dont what this training regimen that you mentioned entails, however martials arts being just a physical skill is not entirely accurate for alot of Chinese and Japenese martial arts that use chi and meditation.
Originally posted by Disappear
"dark" martial arts implies mysticism, as i brought up with the whole immortality/reincarnated soul idea. that creates a baseline that is divergent from "human," thus "non-human," thus potentially "superhuman."
Heres the problem you've put magic and mysticism along side magic and science and genetics and thats completely flawed. Yes science and genetics are outisde agents because it would involve either injecting them with something or exposing them to some form of energy etc.
Magic and Mysticism is a skill like martial arts and some aspects of magic involve increasing the power of your mind much like some martial artists would do via meditation. Therefore no outside agent is used and its natural and very much human. This is why characters like Dr Strange and Moondragon who have vast mental powers are also skilled martial artists, because their training overlaps with martial arts but there training is more focused on the mental side.
Originally posted by Disappear
you can't learn a physical skill and become superhuman. you're either superhuman to start with, or your ability to perform said skill is still within the limit of human ability.shang-chi is a strange case, depending on how you look at it. the idea of the life-energy, or chi, permeating every living being is relatively well accepted in many circles; particularly in comics. so his ability to manipulate his own life energy, like iron fist and many others do, might be within the limits of human ability. this is, again, assuming superhuman isn't defined as "unusual for a human," but as "beyond human ability."
Depends on what you're defintion of superhuman is. Heres marvel definition of superhuman.
http://marvel.com/universe/Glossary😖#superhuman
Try copying and pasting the url into your browser, the forum wont let it display correctly.
superhuman
A skill, ability, or power that is outside the parameters of achievement by ordinary human beings. It is also a term for any being who possesses such a skill, ability, or power.
That defintion comes under "unusual for a human" However I still wouldnt consider Shang Chi to be blantantly superhuman, alot of characters such as Captain America and Elektra would come under this defintion this is why I consider them to be low-superhuman/peak-human
which is why I mentioned Temugin. However some of her powers are blantantly superhuman.
How would you define superhuman? (Dont think it matters at this point)
Originally posted by Disappear
and balder's whole destiny was to die and set off ragnarok, so he's obviously not good enough with a sword to save his own ass.
facepalm