Ultimecia vs Kain

Telepathy is just a mental link, i.e speaking to others, its nothing to do with attacking and it seems to me your keeping some things from me, I have been reading this:

Not just a mental link, it can easily be used to screw with someones will, mind or memories (Star Wars style).

And remember thats just a wiki, so it's likely fan-made and not 100% accurate.

and utilized her ability to possess other sorceresses

I don't know about this, But it doesn't really change anything as she has the concrete display of telepathically stealing thoughts from Squall, so she must have Telepathy

This one above makes me wonder if She can possess anyone other than Sorceresses considering she had to make an effort to gain control, if hse could just take his mind why wouldnt she?

I think your looking too much into this. What she does is talk to Seifer abit and convince him to join her team, using his specific hopes and dreams btw, likely telepathically gleamed.

From this I have found out that first, before she can even use the power of time compression she had to send her mind through a machine both in the past, present and future.

Yeah, but this was before she was practically a god. She couldn't just jump through time or control it then.

She had to possess Enoli or however you spell it who was a sorceress AND then, enoli actually defeated her possession long enough to stop her from using the full compression anyway.

....
I feel lied to, since you said that all sorceresses previously passed their powers on? perhaps you misunderstood (evident from this information) and the truth is that they sent their power not powers to the next sorceress.

NOt only does utlemecia need this eloni or w/e she is, but she needs the machine to send about her conciousness and eloni can fight Ultimecias spell anyway...

If you're talking about Ellone, Ellone stops her temperarily for some reason I can't recall (Disc 4 is freaky) but she later initiates Time Compression again,' absorbing all of time, space, and existence into her newly transformed body', without any mention of Ellone or any hick-up bar SEED.

And Ellone wasn't a sorceress.

Whats more....they claim it as possession throughout this piece of information meaning it may not be mind control at all, considering she is only noted for telepathy, and her TK was said to be used just to beat up someone.....hardly impressive...

Not really, when she possesses Rinoa she creates a telepathic barrier around herself that even Squall can't break through (a meta-human junctioned to extremely powerful magical creatures and boosted by magic) to the extent that he bounces off and starts ragdolling people around.

This plus protect plus her great reactions and speed plus her ability to most likely punch Kains head off (she impales someone through the chest with her bare hand at one point, with ease) plus telepathy plus teleport plus time compression is what I would say equals a dead Kain.

But as youve shown, they take a fair amount of time to rise up and fight, far too long.

So in conclusion telepathy is nothing to do with mind control and her possesion is based on a machine, which she does not have in this fight. The machine being integral to all her main powers and her time compression as well....

I don't care about all that, I'm just saying that she'll be able to feel Kain with his mind, so she'll know if he teleports behind her and react accordingly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not just a mental link, it can easily be used to screw with someones will, mind or memories (Star Wars style).

And remember thats just a wiki, so it's likely fan-made and not 100% accurate.

I don't know about this, But it doesn't really change anything as she has the concrete display of telepathically stealing thoughts from Squall, so she must have Telepathy

I think your looking too much into this. What she does is talk to Seifer abit and convince him to join her team, using his specific hopes and dreams btw, likely telepathically gleamed.

Yeah, but this was before she was practically a god. She couldn't just jump through time or control it then.

If you're talking about Ellone, Ellone stops her temperarily for some reason I can't recall (Disc 4 is freaky) but she later initiates Time Compression again,' absorbing all of time, space, and existence into her newly transformed body', without any mention of Ellone or any hick-up bar SEED.

And Ellone wasn't a sorceress.

Not really, when she possesses Rinoa she creates a telepathic barrier around herself that even Squall can't break through (a meta-human junctioned to extremely powerful magical creatures and boosted by magic) to the extent that he bounces off and starts ragdolling people around.

This plus protect plus her great reactions and speed plus her ability to most likely punch Kains head off (she impales someone through the chest with her bare hand at one point, with ease) plus telepathy plus teleport plus time compression is what I would say equals a dead Kain.

I don't care about all that, I'm just saying that she'll be able to feel Kain with his mind, so she'll know if he teleports behind her and react accordingly.

Star wars is not really telepthy the way you see it in other fictions because its using the force which has other powers including Tk and summoning lightning etc

No offence meant, but I hold it above any member on the site, the only thing that beats the wiki is an actual canon vid or site that contradicts, sure its not accurate, but ive seen first hand neither are memebers of the forum.

Stealing thoughts is not the typical power of telepathy, it seems like a unique ability in FF.

Exactley, why doesnt she just mind control him if she can do so? sure as hell easier than talking someone into it, although as the wiki states, most of her powers are possession through a machine, not her own power.

Well thats what it says, when has she been a God and done it herself? this wiki states again and again that she had to use the machine to not only create this possession effect but also to she had to possess 3 diffrent people at the same time, who are not in this VS, so shes kinda screwed on the time compression front.

From reading it, she never actually intitiates taking over excistence, merely time and space.

Yes I see that now, my mistake.

What are squalls strength feats? and punching Kains head off and punching a random guys is very diffrent, 1. because Kain can turn into mist which will not only negate physical attack but also make it useless if she does manage it. 2. Because Kain is damn durable himself, Raziel cannot even damage him and the proof for Raziels strength is in my bio.

Time compression looks all but impossible now she not only needs a machine to take possessio nof anyone but she also needs these 3 people to actually start the compression spell, if you go on the wiki and click time compression, it states that she needs all 3, i think its stated in her wiki page as well, (I may have quoted it in my past post)

I think Kain is all but invulerable to her tbh, dont forget he cna teleport at incredible speed, ive not even seen ultemecia do it, not all teleports are fast, Kain has 3 shown, each one diffrent to the other and some slower than his dimentional one. He could make distance between them and use his own time powers which he can do by himself and within a second or so and then shes defeated since she cant fight much once slowed to at least 50%, prob more, I forgot my calculation.

This is another thing to take into account, how do you suppose she will detect Kain if he teleports? I mean hes not even there when he disapears, not even on her plane so theres hardly a chance she could find out where hes going to end up apart from the fraction of a second he takes to appear and slice...

ALso I am guessing this is based on the assumption that she reacted to the bullet as it fired and was not facing and readying her spell as his gun charged? if your wrong about that she could actually be slow..

Remember thats only one possessed sorceress, and thats while shes not doing anything else...so you have to choose, can she take thoughts from Kains mind while dodging bullets and making shields? because from what it looks like each of her possessed sorceresses give her diffrent powers.

Whoops, after some research, it is actually possible that Ellone might have been a sorceress, but your wiki says that her power is non-magical, so no, it wouldn't have been passed on.

edit:and I'll get to that tomorrow, maybe.

Sure thing, also nice debating with you btw

all the sorceress that spoke about ultimecia were aware of her controlling them... which was only 2 out of 3 can't remember clearly on everything else they said I might just go through the game again later.

Ultimecia was the ultimate sorceress she had the powers of all past sorceress, she didn't need 3 people only thing she needed was to have ellone send her consciousness back further in the past, so she was still able to fight and begin time compression at the same time still... so Idk wtf happened there if she really needed it or not.

when irvine fired the bullet for edea (ultimecia) she was looking around all over the place and Irvine I guess supposedly according to his profession would take the shot when she was least aware and she managed to react to it inches before hitting.

dunno about squall's strength feats but he can do ridiculous moves with his gunblade skills.

Wasn't the machine and Ellone only needed to obtain the powers from the earlier sorcresses? They arn't needed for the time compression itself... Once Ultimecia has the powers from the other sorcresses, she is pretty much done with the machine and Ellone.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wasn't the machine and Ellone only needed to obtain the powers from the earlier sorcresses? They arn't needed for the time compression itself... Once Ultimecia has the powers from the other sorcresses, she is pretty much done with the machine and Ellone.

Well the wiki claims she needs to be in the past, prsent and future and she cannot do that alone, she needs not only ellone but also the other sorcesses, adel, eloine or w/e their names are to get it done. If you follow the time compression link it says:

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Ultimecia

They would allow Ultimecia to possess Adel. After defeating Adel, she would pass her powers onto Rinoa, making her the only sorceress left in the present era who Ultimecia could control. After Ultimecia takes over Rinoa, Ellone would then send both of their consciousnesses into the distant past, allowing Ultimecia to initiate Time Compression

Ultimecia needed the real Ellone in order to go even farther into the past, so that her consciousness would exist in the past, present, and future. With this accomplished, she would be able to cast the spell that would commence Time Compression

Ellone is not even in this battle so she cannot even achieve time comrpession.

Originally posted by SpadeKing
all the sorceress that spoke about ultimecia were aware of her controlling them... which was only 2 out of 3 can't remember clearly on everything else they said I might just go through the game again later.

Ultimecia was the ultimate sorceress she had the powers of all past sorceress, she didn't need 3 people only thing she needed was to have ellone send her consciousness back further in the past, so she was still able to fight and begin time compression at the same time still... so Idk wtf happened there if she really needed it or not.

when irvine fired the bullet for edea (ultimecia) she was looking around all over the place and Irvine I guess supposedly according to his profession would take the shot when she was least aware and she managed to react to it inches before hitting.

dunno about squall's strength feats but he can do ridiculous moves with his gunblade skills.

As the wiki says however, she still needs her conciousness in the bodies of entities in the past, present and fture to even start the time power, and she can only even do this with ellone, she cant do it herself.

She cant time compression by herself. It took a lot of planning and effort and even if you allow that to have already happened in this gauntlet, she still needs to retain and Past/present/future link to people with someobodies powers she does not have.

I dont know about that, if shes got the telepathy to Nephyse said she had then she could easily sense them long before they even lowered the gates, after that it was obvious. not to mentsion he was sort of hanging over the balcony with a huge gun which had a charge time to fire....then the next minute you see her shes got her shield up. Its a far reach to think she reacted in that time to blocking him after looking around frantically espedcially if Nephyse is right.

Even then, its more a educated guess rather than a fact isnt it.

The thing is though, that she DID initiate time compression during the final battle, Rinoa was in the future, and Ultimecia's link to the present Ellone was severed when Adel went up in flames. Her final form was already compressing future space/time. This debunks the wiki article.

(I played FF8 religiously for ages on the PS1 😛 )

Ultimecia.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Wasn't the machine and Ellone only needed to obtain the powers from the earlier sorcresses? They arn't needed for the time compression itself... Once Ultimecia has the powers from the other sorcresses, she is pretty much done with the machine and Ellone.

Ultimecia already has the powers of all sorceress the entire half of the given great hyne. She just needed her mind further in the past so it can exist in Squall's present time, her present time, and I guess all the way back to the war with great hyne's time. I'm guessing she had 3 brains haermm

Originally posted by Burning thought
As the wiki says however, she still needs her conciousness in the bodies of entities in the past, present and fture to even start the time power, and she can only even do this with ellone, she cant do it herself.

She cant time compression by herself. It took a lot of planning and effort and even if you allow that to have already happened in this gauntlet, she still needs to retain and Past/present/future link to people with someobodies powers she does not have.

I dont know about that, if shes got the telepathy to Nephyse said she had then she could easily sense them long before they even lowered the gates, after that it was obvious. not to mentsion he was sort of hanging over the balcony with a huge gun which had a charge time to fire....then the next minute you see her shes got her shield up. Its a far reach to think she reacted in that time to blocking him after looking around frantically espedcially if Nephyse is right.

Even then, its more a educated guess rather than a fact isnt it.

She began the time compression without ellone being there, something she personally stated before she went to her final form.

they were pretty far back but she might've been able to sense it dunno, it didn't exactly have a charge time, he just took his time getting a perfect shot like all snipers do, unless he has some sort of super sniper rifle.

Can you show me the vid that states she does not need these people for time compression? to "debunk" the wiki arcticle please?

it says in the wiki that she was in the form of Adel when she cast the compression, peculier if this is not true. Well theres a high chance its not a normal sniper rifle since its not on Earth. But the wiki claims a lot of things, who and what she needs to attain full compression, if she can do it by herself then why would she use ellone or any of the other sorceresses?

doesnt make sense to me...she must obviously need people because this is all part of her plan, why would there even be a long game if she could just do it from the get go?

I don't get alot of things about this but she only wanted Adel over Rinoa cause Adel was more mature with her powers than Rinoa was at the time. Also Adel died before she even attempted to start compression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PSV3FeaCgc&feature=related

She begins compressing time then and begins using that horrific final boss tactics in which she can lower your health to 1 & then do the same move which won't do anything... FF needs to work on their final fights ermm

Hm strange, so i am guessing the representation of time compression is the beginning? little stars and things floating around/towards her?

But what is that thing she is? it looks like nothing ive seen depicting her apart from your image a few pages back, it cant seem to move much so speed probably goes out the window in this form. Although it says little about time compression apart from Ultemecia said it "will" compress so its not happened yet and take some time thats for sure.

The time compression was already underway once she reached this form. It already began (Thats why at the end, the group was scattered throughout the timelines)

The stars and things disapeared when she arrived and tried to attack the team, perhaps she cannot hold time compression while actually fighting herself. Although at the end of the battle I thought she was dieing, I thought she was the one scattered?

any members who fall in the final battle are absorbed into time also.