Destroyer vs WWH

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't think it possible to seperate the radiation and the strength. as he lost control, the radiation he gave off increased--this also corresponded to a ridiculous increase in strength. that radiation STEMMED from/was sourced in hulk's growing strength. he coudn't have done what he did without that energy, but at the same time, were he not string enough to generate said energy was not the cause for the destruction--it was his rage and manifested strength.

I think I agree but they are arguing that its the radiation itself that was causing the fissures in the ground. The writer also confirmed it was his steps and not the radiation.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
I think I agree but they are arguing that its the radiation itself that was causing the fissures in the ground. The writer also confirmed it was his steps and not the radiation.

i agree it was the footsteps. the radiation that was shown was generated as a result of the force of his footsteps. that's why i don't think you can seperate the 2.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree it was the footsteps. the radiation that was shown was generated as a result of the force of his footsteps. that's why i don't think you can seperate the 2.

Thats perfectly reasonable. However I think that maybe saying that certain people are arguing that the radiation itself is causing the fissures is a misreprensentation and in actual fact what they are really saying is that the radiation is partially the reason for the fissures.

I still dont think this is a logical explanation because we can actual see him radiating energy before making the footsteps and it isnt really causing any serious damage to anything. At the very most we could argue that the radiation is causing the windows to smash in the buildings in the distance. Smashing windows is in no way going to contribute to making fissures and it seems most likely that it was WWH's footsteps that were going it because it says KAKOOOM which is nearly the same sound when we actually see WWH foots stamp on the ground in the following panel.

Meh...

Originally posted by Master Court
I can't believe you don't shut up!

Look! It's one thing if you actually made points that even one other person in the world agreed with, or even had a shred of proof to back them, or even that you didn't just pull out of your ass. Radiation this. Thor's restraining that. Thor's stronger than Hulk. Blah blah blah.

I'm not dodging your points, I'm dodging YOU! You and your points live in fairy land. I've seen this sh*t before. You're not trying to debate, you're trying to convert me. Crazy zealots like you don't understand that some or all of your points are wrong. You say them like "Thor is stronger than Hulk, end of, nuff said, period, what's not to understand?" Now not all your points are wrong. But most of them either are, or the sh*t you point out in defense of Thor has no real bearing. Thor holds back against mortals? GREAT! But not Hulk! AND I CAN PROVE IT MOTHERF*CKER!

Hulk goes flying into the adamantium statue, gets right back up, and the fight resumes. Knowing that even his all doesn't wipe Hulk out of existence, why would he ever hold back against someone he knows is stronger than him, even if only "eventually", and can hurt him?

As for the radiation thing. Stop it. You're basing sh*t on what you see on the page. You've drawn your own conclusion based on theory, and now you're gonna swear by it even into your grave, right? Even though I've explained it. And all you do is say you've explained it. You're the only person in the f**king world with the radiation theory, my man! It's a fail! Drop it!

I mean, you even called me champ. You're highlighting sh*t, too. This like when Mr. Burns kept telling Barry Bonds to shave his sideburns. You keep jabbing at your points like if I stare long enough, I'll forget what I actually know to be true or debatable by evidence, and I'll just "Oooohhh. I get it."

You even back another one of your points with your radiataing energy bullsh*t theory. How can I quantify the footstep feat? Simple. It was the footstep that was trashing the place. No where in this universe exists any evidence to show it was the gamma energy causing the mayhem. I know you think you've spotted something no one else has, that you've cracked a big case and can make it big because you've discovered what billions of dollars of research couldn't, but it's a theory you've simply pulled out of your ass. I don't know where you got it, but put it back. The footsteps are not IN debate. They're USED in debates because it's not doubted or disputed anywhere in the Milky Way to be anything other than Hulk's raw physical power gone wild. The buildings were shaking because of the earthquake Hulk's footsteps made. I know the panels where you're getting confused, but you're wrong.

Now leave me alone, zealot!!

I love this guy.

Originally posted by batdude123
I love this guy.

He's my best friend, third to you and Val.

Spoiler:
Val's number 1.

🙁

Originally posted by Master Court
I Thor holds back against mortals? GREAT! But not Hulk! AND I CAN PROVE IT MOTHERF*CKER!

Hulk goes flying into the adamantium statue, gets right back up, and the fight resumes. Knowing that even his all doesn't wipe Hulk out of existence, why would he ever hold back against someone he knows is stronger than him, even if only "eventually", and can hurt him?

thor does hold back against mortals, that is pretty well known. but the fight with hulk in question was when he finally started to flex his muscles on one. the deadlock they had was most likely due to thor applying more effort and the hulk matching it by his anger amp.

thor and hulk have some sort of alpha male relationship that can only be settled in a test of arms, strictly using their strength, and imo thor knows that hulk is at least a match for him in the strength department thus hurting his ego as a "god among mortals". he knows he should be able to beat any mortal, but the hulk is the one of few, if not the only exception.

thor WANTS to beat the hulk down, defeating him with a beam or something would be a hollow victory.

Originally posted by psycho gundam
i have to agree.

thor does hold back against mortals, that is pretty well known. but the fight with hulk in question was when he finally started to flex his muscles on one. the deadlock they had was most likely due to thor applying more effort and the hulk matching it by his anger amp.

thor and hulk have some sort of alpha male relationship that can only be settled in a test of arms, strictly using their strength, and imo thor knows that hulk is at least a match for him in the strength department thus hurting his ego as a "god among mortals". he knows he should be able to beat any mortal, but the hulk is the one of few, if not the only exception.

thor WANTS to beat the hulk down, defeating him with a beam or something would be a hollow victory.

👆

personally i don't think there is much doubt hulk is simply stronger than thor, like there is no doubt thor is more powerful. obviously thor COULD win 10/10, but fighting in character thor v hulk battles will almost always be a split imo.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

My 2 cents worth...

1st and 2nd panels show the Hulk radiating energy, most obviously visible light bright enough to cause other characters to shield their eyes. No other effects are apparent...which is odd considering panel 3.

3rd panel: This energy (looking mostly like green fire) is radiating through the city, seems to be shaking things up...but overall, those buildings seem rather intact to me. I suppose the black dots around the buildings could be broken glass or minor concrete debris; but it's 'interesting' how the other characters were not further affected by this energy, especially given their close range.

4th panel: Hulk stomps, apparently, as there are now fissures in the ground (they were not there in panel 1), and those waves moving through them (also absent in panels 1 and 3) look like shock waves, also present in panel 5 along with the ground fissures.

5th panel: fissures, shock waves, blurry buildings to suggest intense vibrations, cars upended, lightposts coming down...all this suggests much more destruction than in panel 3 (suggests because of the different viewing angles between panels 3 and 5: in 3 we can't see the streets).

My conclusion: some of the art here was done for effect more than accuracy, but basically, this sequence of events could be likened to a nuclear explosion. Before shock waves there is light, heat and radiation which can cause some damage...but it's the shock waves (here caused by Hulk's stomp) that cause the major destruction.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I already replied to this post. I know I did. Okay to summarize what I wrote in a paragraph because I don't care enough to rewrite it:

No I am not.

Yes it was already being radiated but it was not until he took his first step that the gamma energy started to do actual damage. It was not until he took the step that the energy being radiated started incinerating buildings/objects, causing wide spread damage and so on.

Faulty analogy. It's shown rather clearly that the moment Hulk took the step, gamma energy originated from his foot, traveled and expunged throughout the area causing wide spread havoc and damage. It did not seem truly concussive and more than a light show until he took his first step.

I just don't see how you can quantify the step as purely a strength feat.

Originally posted by leonidas
👆

personally i don't think there is much doubt hulk is simply stronger than thor, like there is no doubt thor is more powerful. obviously thor COULD win 10/10, but fighting in character thor v hulk battles will almost always be a split imo.

Nah, not even close.

Thor doesn't even have to fight using exotic powers, he just needs to use lightning.

Originally posted by Kris Blaze
Nah, not even close.

Thor doesn't even have to fight using exotic powers, he just needs to use lightning.

😂

thor using just his physical prowess is what i was intending--ie--slugging it out with fists and hammer like he usually does against hulk. i know he can--and has--easily ko'd hulk using just lightning. he just rarely does.

Originally posted by leonidas
😂

thor using just his physical prowess is what i was intending--ie--slugging it out with fists and hammer like he usually does against hulk. i know he can--and has--easily ko'd hulk using just lightning. he just rarely does.

Yes, but when you look at the fights Thor had against Hulk WITH his hammer, there's like a 50% lightning chance. And when you take a couple of seconds to remember that this is KMC and the rules say that all contenders fight to the best of their ability, while remaining in character. We know that Thor might do some brawling, but also that he would definitely use lightning as well.

Originally posted by leonidas
👆

personally i don't think there is much doubt hulk is simply stronger than thor, like there is no doubt thor is more powerful. obviously thor COULD win 10/10, but fighting in character thor v hulk battles will almost always be a split imo.

I basically agree. I think Thor fights Hulk with brawler/alpha-dog style because of the ego involved, and therefore probably gives away more fights/scraps than he has to, but Hulk isn't to be underestimated. Hulk's stood up to the lightning before, and he's pummeled Thor more than once. Not necessarily KO's, but you know.

Not to clutch at straws. I just think it depends on Hulk's state at the start of the fight, which is also heavily depending on what triggers the Hulk-out. Sometimes Banner just gets miffed and Hulk can be calm. On the other hand, he's been super enraged, and Hulk starts off with a huge boost. A few times that Hulk was already beating up on the Avengers with Thor getting a late arrival, he's been met with much fiercer resistance, and then it's mostly only ended when Hulk leaves or calms down.

But, Thor is overall more powerful, especially earlier in the fights, and still even later in the fights, so more power to him.

Originally posted by Master Court
I basically agree. I think Thor fights Hulk with brawler/alpha-dog style because of the ego involved, and therefore probably gives away more fights/scraps than he has to, but Hulk isn't to be underestimated. Hulk's stood up to the lightning before, and he's pummeled Thor more than once. Not necessarily KO's, but you know.

Not to clutch at straws. I just think it depends on Hulk's state at the start of the fight, which is also heavily depending on what triggers the Hulk-out. Sometimes Banner just gets miffed and Hulk can be calm. On the other hand, he's been super enraged, and Hulk starts off with a huge boost. A few times that Hulk was already beating up on the Avengers with Thor getting a late arrival, he's been met with much fiercer resistance, and then it's mostly only ended when Hulk leaves or calms down.

But, Thor is overall more powerful, especially earlier in the fights, and still even later in the fights, so more power to him.

that's my stance on this as well. hell, beyonder and many others have said hulks power is LIMITLESS. and ill believe the beyonder when it comes to these types of statements.

too be honest, thor has never fought the green scar persona. hulk's "strongest" form. (banner/hulk synergy)

Originally posted by Master Court I can't believe you don't shut up!

We are having a discussion. Why would I drop it when we haven’t come to any sort of agreement yet? You and I started having an argument and we won’t stand up until it is done. If you want it to end so badly, then simply concede or if you must just agree to disagree.
Whining about me shuting up won’t do you any good.

Originally posted by Master Court Look! It's one thing if you actually made points that even one other person in the world agreed with, or even had a shred of proof to back them, or even that you didn't just pull out of your ass. Radiation this. Thor's restraining that. Thor's stronger than Hulk. Blah blah blah.

Thor has stated on panel on different occasions that he restrains his strength against all mortals, and has stated that Hulk falls into that category. I have proof and even posted scans. Just because you choose to ignore them doesn’t mean that they aren’t there. When did I state Thor is stronger than the Hulk? Yes depending on his rate of amping Thor is beyond the Hulk in strength but the Hulk can reach his level of strength, sooner or later. When he fights Thor, his rage is so great it’s sooner rather than later. The radiation statement is not without basis. I am simply going by what was drawn on panel. If you choose to disagree that is fine but that is my stance. Prove me otherwise and I will concede. It is really that simple, and no need for the long winded statements of pointless crap.

Originally posted by Master Court I'm not dodging your points, I'm dodging YOU! You and your points live in fairy land. I've seen this sh*t before. You're not trying to debate, you're trying to convert me. Crazy zealots like you don't understand that some or all of your points are wrong. You say them like "Thor is stronger than Hulk, end of, nuff said, period, what's not to understand?" Now not all your points are wrong. But most of them either are, or the sh*t you point out in defense of Thor has no real bearing.

Convert you? Crazy zealots? Like I said, how about you stop trying to doge me by stating pointless and ridiculous crap and stick to the topics at hand? I didn’t even claim Thor’s superiority in the physical department against Hulk. I am simply contesting your claim that Hulk is physical stronger than Thor. I am making a valid argument which you choose to ignore and keep trying to insult me as if that would change anything. Either wrong or shit I pointed out in defense against Thor that has no bearing? Lulz.

Originally posted by Master Court Thor holds back against mortals? GREAT! But not Hulk! AND I CAN PROVE IT MOTHERF*CKER!

I have tolerated your bullshit but now you’re really starting to piss me the **** off. At least you attempted an argument here.
That scan is not anything new I have seen. I’ve read that fight countless times. Simple fact is, that there are definitely more examples of Thor stating that he holds back against mortals and that includes the Hulk on more the one occasions trumps the one instance in all their countless brawls that states that Thor hits him without holding back. As far as I know that is the only instance unless I am forgetting any others but I highly doubt it. When a statement contradicts another statement, yet one statement has more examples than the other, we tend to whole the statement with the more backing more legitimately.

It’s not as if the notion that Thor restrains himself against mortals is illogical. Thor has been capable of killing both the Hulk and the Thing in battle with one arm when necessary. In the past his one shot Namor when necessary. He really does restrain himself against mortals which include the Hulk based on showings like these. If he didn’t restrain his strength in their battles, than logically the Hulk with his ever increasing strength should overpower Thor sooner or later. Yet even if they dead lock for hours on end, with the Hulk continuously amping his strength to higher and higher levels has failed to overpower him and Thor didn’t even seem tired. That means that Thor is restraining his strength, because despite Hulk’s amping Thor is capable of matching him. He simply taps more in his strength reserve. Truly, it’s just common sense. Even if the incarnation is that much more powerful such as the mindless Hulk. It really is incredibly logical if you look at their fights. I don’t see why you disagree with this notion so entirely.

Originally posted by Master Court Hulk goes flying into the adamantium statue, gets right back up, and the fight resumes. Knowing that even his all doesn't wipe Hulk out of existence, why would he ever hold back against someone he knows is stronger than him, even if only "eventually", and can hurt him?

He isn’t stronger than Thor. You haven’t proven so. As for the rest refer to the above.

Originally posted by Master Court As for the radiation thing. Stop it. You're basing sh*t on what you see on the page. You've drawn your own conclusion based on theory, and now you're gonna swear by it even into your grave, right? Even though I've explained it. And all you do is say you've explained it. You're the only person in the f**king world with the radiation theory, my man! It's a fail! Drop it!

facepalm

Do you think before you type? I’m basing shit on what I see on the page? Of course I am. What else am I supposed to base it on? I haven’t drawn my own conclusion, but on the conclusion in the comic. What exactly have you explained? All you do is run your mouth over pointless garbage and whine. You haven’t proven anything worthwhile. I’m the only one who actually pays attention to detail? That’s fine. I don’t know about how other people feel, but personally I would rather be the only one right in a world full of morons than then be wrong with everyone else.

Originally posted by Master Court I mean, you even called me champ. You're highlighting sh*t, too. This like when Mr. Burns kept telling Barry Bonds to shave his sideburns. You keep jabbing at your points like if I stare long enough, I'll forget what I actually know to be true or debatable by evidence, and I'll just "Oooohhh. I get it."

And there you go again, with the pointless crap that has no bearing at the topic at hand. You bring up a point that has no basis and when I contest it, you resort to attempting to dodge the points made. Stick to the topic at hand. By the way, I highlighted the words for you as it seemed you had trouble understanding the meaning of the sentence without help. Take from that what you will.

Originally posted by Master Court You even back another one of your points with your radiataing energy bullsh*t theory. How can I quantify the footstep feat? Simple. It was the footstep that was trashing the place. No where in this universe exists any evidence to show it was the gamma energy causing the mayhem. I know you think you've spotted something no one else has, that you've cracked a big case and can make it big because you've discovered what billions of dollars of research couldn't, but it's a theory you've simply pulled out of your ass. I don't know where you got it, but put it back. The footsteps are not IN debate. They're USED in debates because it's not doubted or disputed anywhere in the Milky Way to be anything other than Hulk's raw physical power gone wild. The buildings were shaking because of the earthquake Hulk's footsteps made. I know the panels where you're getting confused, but you're wrong.

Here is some more pointless garbage and whining about how I’ve made points. What skill you have in debating, champ. 👆

You keep trying to quantify the footsteps as a feat of strength. How can you do so when it’s rather clear, the moment he takes his steps, energy originates from him, travels through the ground, and opens up fissures that burst with gamma energy?

I simply see it incorrect to state, that World Breaker Hulk is oh so powerful based on a footstep which classification as a strength feat is in doubt.

Originally posted by Master Court Now leave me alone, zealot!!

Why would I leave you alone if we are engaging in a discussion? If you wish it to end simply concede then. The name calling is starting to piss me off. Stop it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone So why werent the heroes standing around him incinerated then?

I have no clue. Apparently it wasn’t until his foot step that it became more than a light shown. Objects across the city where incinerated by the energy, yet the heroes around him were only tossed around by the energy as I recall.

Originally posted by leonidas i don't think it possible to seperate the radiation and the strength. as he lost control, the radiation he gave off increased--this also corresponded to a ridiculous increase in strength. that radiation STEMMED from/was sourced in hulk's growing strength. he coudn't have done what he did without that energy, but at the same time, were he not string enough to generate said energy was not the cause for the destruction--it was his rage and manifested strength.

Best argument I have encountered so far but unfortunately that isn’t saying much compared to the arguments being presented.

You could say it’s impossible to separate the two, but I simply view it as incorrect to quantify the damage done as a strength feat. Like you said, he couldn’t accomplish what he did without the energy. The Hulk generates his own gamma energy now. The angrier he gets apparently the stronger he gets and the more gamma energy he generates. No one is denying that his strength must have jumped up to a new level as he was pushed like never before. That’s just common sense but I don’t agree with someone basing his strength off those steps and trying to pass them off as purely a strength feat

Originally posted by leonidas
👆

personally i don't think there is much doubt hulk is simply stronger than thor, like there is no doubt thor is more powerful. obviously thor COULD win 10/10, but fighting in character thor v hulk battles will almost always be a split imo.

sly

There should be doubt because despite all their fights if it was so cut and clear that the Hulk is stronger he would have proved it.

There isn't any doubt however that Thor is clearly a lot more powerful because he has proven so. His casually dropped his ass with a single lightning bolt.

Originally posted by Master Court I basically agree. I think Thor fights Hulk with brawler/alpha-dog style because of the ego involved, and therefore probably gives away more fights/scraps than he has to, but Hulk isn't to be underestimated. Hulk's stood up to the lightning before, and he's pummeled Thor more than once. Not necessarily KO's, but you know.

Whats your definition of pummeling? No matter how hard the Hulk tries his never been able to put Thor down much to his frustration. if what I think your definition is, Thor has pummeled the Hulk before but fortunately for him he doesn’t follow through and keep on beating on him like the Hulk does to Thor to no avail. With Mjolnir in hand, the result is usually the Hulk getting dropped though or sent flying on his ass. Dude even resorted to a hostage once.

Fist fight I can see it being a split. Give Thor Mjolnir in the brawl, I give it to him.

Originally posted by Master Court Not to clutch at straws. I just think it depends on Hulk's state at the start of the fight, which is also heavily depending on what triggers the Hulk-out. Sometimes Banner just gets miffed and Hulk can be calm. On the other hand, he's been super enraged, and Hulk starts off with a huge boost. A few times that Hulk was already beating up on the Avengers with Thor getting a late arrival, he's been met with much fiercer resistance, and then it's mostly only ended when Hulk leaves or calms down.

Clutching to an extent that is. 😛

No matter his anger or incarnation. Even if the Hulk has gone completely berserk or mindless, Thor has been able to stalemate him.

Originally posted by Master Court But, Thor is overall more powerful, especially earlier in the fights, and still even later in the fights, so more power to him.

👆

This I agree with.

Originally posted by Prep-Man
hell, beyonder and many others have said hulks power is LIMITLESS.

and that was a pre-retconned beyonder too, i think. thing is, yall don't even know where the source of hulk's power stems from! For all you idiot know, he probably draw the sh*t from toaa or some sh*t! So please ease up on the hulk hating and uh....take thor's hammer out of ur mouth please. thank you, bitches.