Z vs Vegeto

Originally posted by NemeBro
There is a difference between what is mentioned by a fallible character and what is mentioned by a nigh-omniscient, Multiversal entity.

Not to mention no one ever said Freeza was a universe buster.

Goku said it, king ki said it, and goku said it again.

King ki is a being that knows all and he mentioned TWICE that frieza would destroy the universe if picollo (first time it was mentioned) provoked him. The second time was during his fight with goku.

Again, if we're using statements then frieza is a universe crusher.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku said it, king ki said it, and goku said it again.

King ki is a being that knows all and he mentioned TWICE that frieza would destroy the universe if picollo (first time it was mentioned) provoked him. The second time was during his fight with goku.

Again, if we're using statements then frieza is a universe crusher.

King Kai is not all knowing lol, is that why he knew that Goku would IT Cell to his planet, killing them?

Also, Goku and Vegeta were unable to stop a friggin planet destroying attack from Kid Buu...Yet Freeza is a universe buster?

It was stated by a proven Multiversal entity with nigh-omniscience that she would have to destroy the universe to kill Z.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Right, I'm also sure that meant he would do it in one shot right? Wait, no he wouldn't, because that would be counter-productive to his goal. By destroy they clearly meant under his rule, he was a dictator who annexed planets into his empire in order to rule it, that is why he desired immortality, to rule it forever. Why would he destroy it?

King Kai is not all knowing lol, is that why he knew that Goku would IT Cell to his planet, killing them?

Also, Goku and Vegeta were unable to stop a friggin planet destroying attack from Kid Buu...Yet Freeza is a universe buster?

It was stated by a proven Multiversal entity with nigh-omniscience that she would have to destroy the universe to kill Z.

😆 lol, so you think that blast that kid buu busted the planet with was just a planet buster, wow. I think it was much more; I think it could have blown the planet up even if it was triple it size.

By the way, even if goku and vegeta failed to stop a blast, what does that have to do with frieza being a universal wrecker? 😕

King ki knows a lot and he knew of frieza and his power before any of the z fighters fought him.

I want you to prove thats what they meant when they brought up frieza destroying the universe.

Any way you put it, no matter who said it, its hyperbole.

It was mention that hulk had unlimited strength from the strongest and most powerful being in the universe, is it true? 😕

Originally posted by carver9
😆 lol, so you think that blast that kid buu busted the planet with was just a planet buster, wow. I think it was much more; I think it could have blown the planet up even if it was triple it size.

By the way, even if goku and vegeta failed to stop a blast, what does that have to do with frieza being a universal wrecker? 😕

King ki knows a lot and he knew of frieza and his power before any of the z fighters fought him.

I want you to prove thats what they meant when they brought up frieza destroying the universe.

Any way you put it, no matter who said it, its hyperbole.

It was mention that hulk had unlimited strength from the strongest and most powerful being in the universe, is it true? 😕

2. Goku and Vegeta are much more powerful than Freeza?

3. King Kai knows alot? Sure. Can you prove he can destroy a universe in a single attack? No.

4. Um no, that is not how it works. You have to prove that they meant he would do so in one shot, considering you made the claim and Freeza doing that defies all logic.

5. Lol no. She was going to kill Zant, but refrained from doing so because she knew she would have to destroy the universe to do so.

6. Potentially, yes, he does.

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. ...Which would still only make it a planet buster. 😬

2. Goku and Vegeta are much more powerful than Freeza?

3. King Kai knows alot? Sure. Can you prove he can destroy a universe in a single attack? No.

4. Um no, that is not how it works. You have to prove that they meant he would do so in one shot, considering you made the claim and Freeza doing that defies all logic.

5. Lol no. She was going to kill Zant, but refrained from doing so because she knew she would have to destroy the universe to do so.

6. Potentially, yes, he does.

I agree, that would still make him a planet buster.

I agree, they are more powerful than frieza but what does that have to do with the type of blast that they can stop. Supes couldnt stop a nuke from going off so I guess he cant destroy anything that dont carry more power than a nuke. 😕

I dont think frieza can destroy a universe BUT if one hyperbole is accepted why cant we accept another one.

Potentially he havent showed that he has unlimited strength yet so its still hyperbole.

I dont remember them saying that about freeza but I know it was said about Cell and Buu, especially Buu.

No one has provided any proof on how strong this Z is.

Originally posted by occultdestroyer
No one has provided any proof on how strong this Z is.

Massively FTL
Dimension hopper
Universe hopper
Time traveler
Regenerator
Removes matter and energy from existence
Teleporter of himself and others
Telekinesis
Matter manipulation/transmutation
Divine protection that reduces all attacks to harmless energy from higher dimensions with 11-dimensional defense, you need timespace disruption to destroy the entire universe to beat him (confirmed since Tokimi attempted it but didn't follow through because it would destroy the universe, also Tokimi was one of the beings that created the multiverse which is infinite in expanse). This was when he had only 2 LHWs, having sacrificed 3 to cancel Tenchi's 3, and according to the 101 secrets book each LHW increases power 2 times so with 5 LHWs he was 8 times more powerful, in addition another being with just 2 LHWs was able to merge two universes together and choose how they would be created, and reconstitute itself in the new universe after being destroyed), we also have things like pulling things out of other dimensions, creating black holes, manipulating probability, etc. It should be mentioned that Z blocked Ryo-Ohki's attack with one hand, and Fuku (who was basically a weaker version of Ryo-Ohki) was stated by credible scientists studying her to have as much energy as a small universe. He was also at ground zero of a clash between Tokimi and Tsunami that ripped a large hole in the galaxy and was completely unharmed

Really Z is a cosmic anomaly on a divine level, any DB character even hoping to have a chance against him is pure fantasy. The only thing that actually beat him was the Awakening of Kami Tenchi, who is an omnipotent being (or at least infinitely beyond multiversal level).

Really all they meant about saying Cell and Buu were a threat to the universe was meaning they could teleport from one planet to another and destroy them one at a time. So they can get to you no matter where you are in the universe. Not shatter all of time and space like a Chousein is shown to do, even the inferior Dr. Clay had a ship (much weaker than a Jurai ship, which have inferior power to Z) that could tow an entire galaxy through space

What does that pic have to do with Z's feats??

He survived the blast that destroyed that hole in the galaxy.

Broly destroyed a galaxy.

Vegetto is >>>>> LSSJ Broly.

Broly is a non-canon character and his feats cannot be attributed to any canon one.

I want Vegeto wins. But I have to say Z wins.

Endless Mike sums everything about Z nicely, Z is too much for any DB fighter to handel. Even if you put SSj4 Gogeta and the whole universe against him, he would still win.

Z is well above Skyfather marvel wise.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
Massively FTL
Dimension hopper
Universe hopper
Time traveler
Regenerator
Removes matter and energy from existence
Teleporter of himself and others
Telekinesis
Matter manipulation/transmutation
Divine protection that reduces all attacks to harmless energy from higher dimensions with 11-dimensional defense, you need timespace disruption to destroy the entire universe to beat him (confirmed since Tokimi attempted it but didn't follow through because it would destroy the universe, also Tokimi was one of the beings that created the multiverse which is infinite in expanse). This was when he had only 2 LHWs, having sacrificed 3 to cancel Tenchi's 3, and according to the 101 secrets book each LHW increases power 2 times so with 5 LHWs he was 8 times more powerful, in addition another being with just 2 LHWs was able to merge two universes together and choose how they would be created, and reconstitute itself in the new universe after being destroyed), we also have things like pulling things out of other dimensions, creating black holes, manipulating probability, etc. It should be mentioned that Z blocked Ryo-Ohki's attack with one hand, and Fuku (who was basically a weaker version of Ryo-Ohki) was stated by credible scientists studying her to have as much energy as a small universe. He was also at ground zero of a clash between Tokimi and Tsunami that ripped a large hole in the galaxy and was completely unharmed

Really Z is a cosmic anomaly on a divine level, any DB character even hoping to have a chance against him is pure fantasy. The only thing that actually beat him was the Awakening of Kami Tenchi, who is an omnipotent being (or at least infinitely beyond multiversal level).

Really all they meant about saying Cell and Buu were a threat to the universe was meaning they could teleport from one planet to another and destroy them one at a time. So they can get to you no matter where you are in the universe. Not shatter all of time and space like a Chousein is shown to do, even the inferior Dr. Clay had a ship (much weaker than a Jurai ship, which have inferior power to Z) that could tow an entire galaxy through space

How do you know what it meant when they said that buu is a universal buster due to his teleporting. How about you prove it, show me some evidence. Again , they said that frieza was going to destroy the universe and he couldnt even teleport, what reason do you have behind that?

Originally posted by carver9
How do you know what it meant when they said that buu is a universal buster due to his teleporting. How about you prove it, show me some evidence. Again , they said that frieza was going to destroy the universe and he couldnt even teleport, what reason do you have behind that?

Did they say that he'll do that in one shot?

Originally posted by carver9
How do you know what it meant when they said that buu is a universal buster due to his teleporting. How about you prove it, show me some evidence. Again , they said that frieza was going to destroy the universe and he couldnt even teleport, what reason do you have behind that?

Originally posted by Kento
Wasn't it said Freeza will conquer the universe? Not destroy?

During frieza first introduction, yeah, thats what was said but King ki mentioned to many times that an enraged frieza would destroy the universe. Goku even said that if he didnt stop frieza would destroy the universe.

Throughout the entire frieza arc it was mentioned that frieza was a universal destroyer.

Originally posted by carver9
During frieza first introduction, yeah, thats what was said but King ki mentioned to many times that an enraged frieza would destroy the universe. Goku even said that if he didnt stop frieza would destroy the universe.

Throughout the entire frieza arc it was mentioned that frieza was a universal destroyer.

I don't recall that ever being mentioned (probably just an anime dub thing like Tien's arm growing back and Bardock being a scientist), post a manga scan if you are so sure, and even if it was it's obvious hyperbole as no DBZ character has ever destroyed anything more than a planet in canon, whereas the Chousein created the multiverse and casually rearranged time and space, furthermore Z said Tokimi would have to shatter the 3rd dimension (equal to the universe) to kill Z and she agreed and backed of, and Tokimi was the one who created Z's powers and trained him in their use and she is a multiverse creator, furthermore it is substantiated by the fact that Zinv who had 2 LHWs (compared to Z's 5 at his peak, when Tokimi threatened him he only had 2) merged two universes and used a human's subconscious desire to choose how the new universe would be and also reconstituted himself back into existence after being destroyed in the previous universe.

In fact it's implied that Z considers fighting in the 3rd dimension (main universe with Earth, Milky Way, etc.) to be below him since he could only really be harmed by higher dimensional beings. Furthermore the Light Hawk Wings have canonically resisted gravity, time and space manipulation, escaped from the inside of a black hole (which has infinite gravity and is much greater than any ki attack could possibly be), and they are divine power handed down by the beings that set the physical laws of the universe, basically a cheat code for the universe, they can alter the laws of physics and causality around them, Dr. Clay mentioned that the gravitational constant of space was changing when Tenchi escaped the black hole, in addition they transform any hostile attacks into harmless energy. They are described as "A Manifestation of God's Aura" in the 101 Secrets book (authored by Masaki Kajishima himself to explain questions fans had about the series).

Really Z solos every DBZ character casually, they are not higher dimensional beings, they are nothing more than mere physical existences and cannot defeat a being with truly divine power on a multiversal scale as Z is. Thinking otherwise is nothing but fanboyism.

Originally posted by Endless Mike
I don't recall that ever being mentioned (probably just an anime dub thing like Tien's arm growing back and Bardock being a scientist), post a manga scan if you are so sure, and even if it was it's obvious hyperbole as no DBZ character has ever destroyed anything more than a planet in canon, whereas the Chousein created the multiverse and casually rearranged time and space, furthermore Z said Tokimi would have to shatter the 3rd dimension (equal to the universe) to kill Z and she agreed and backed of, and Tokimi was the one who created Z's powers and trained him in their use and she is a multiverse creator, furthermore it is substantiated by the fact that Zinv who had 2 LHWs (compared to Z's 5 at his peak, when Tokimi threatened him he only had 2) merged two universes and used a human's subconscious desire to choose how the new universe would be and also reconstituted himself back into existence after being destroyed in the previous universe.

In fact it's implied that Z considers fighting in the 3rd dimension (main universe with Earth, Milky Way, etc.) to be below him since he could only really be harmed by higher dimensional beings. Furthermore the Light Hawk Wings have canonically resisted gravity, time and space manipulation, escaped from the inside of a black hole (which has infinite gravity and is much greater than any ki attack could possibly be), and they are divine power handed down by the beings that set the physical laws of the universe, basically a cheat code for the universe, they can alter the laws of physics and causality around them, Dr. Clay mentioned that the gravitational constant of space was changing when Tenchi escaped the black hole, in addition they transform any hostile attacks into harmless energy. They are described as "A Manifestation of God's Aura" in the 101 Secrets book (authored by Masaki Kajishima himself to explain questions fans had about the series).

Really Z solos every DBZ character casually, they are not higher dimensional beings, they are nothing more than mere physical existences and cannot defeat a being with truly divine power on a multiversal scale as Z is. Thinking otherwise is nothing but fanboyism.

I never said that goku could beat z because honestly, he cant BUT hyperbole is hyperbole, no matter who its coming from.

You should know when it was mentioned about Frieza being a universal threat, the scan was put up numerous of times in the goku vs supserman thread and I agree, it was hyperbole.