French pool bans 'burkini' swim

Originally posted by Sado22
blacks: oh no, they hate us. i think we should leave everything and go back to africa

Over 20,000 free blacks left due to the Fugitive Slave Act. They went to Canada. 😐

Thousands of African Americans leaving because of oppressive whites? Check.

Originally posted by Sado22
homos: yeah, they hate us too. lets just get up and leave this place.

I know of at least two gay, male, couples who left Oklahoma and are now living in France...because it sucked so bad for them here in Oklahoma. (There's some really mean a**holes, here in Oklahoma. Oklahoma will be the last state to legalize gay marriage. FACT.)

Check.

Originally posted by Sado22
women: yeah, men aren't giving us the deserved equality. lets just leave this planet.

It's called suicide. And, MANY many women have committed suicide in part, due to their husbands or other oppressive males. There's also those women who moved west with their families so they could have a say in government, during the women's suffrage movement. That's right, poor-ass families up and moved.

Check.

You point fails to actually contradict lil B. In fact, it only proves her point. The Muslims in France, of which she was referring are, the lot of them, much better off than the African Americans or Women of whom you spoke. Not only because the extreme majority are much better off, financially, but also because the world is much better off, socially for this group. Muslims may be associated with terrorism, as of late, but at least we don't have mobs of white people, rounding up the nearest 20 black people and lynching them. in case you were wondering, that was a metaphor for the following:

White people = Muslim oppressors
black people = Muslims.

Originally posted by Sado22
heck, nothing would be done. nothing would change. liberty MEANS the right for everyone to put their beliefs on the table and give an open invitations to others. now if this burkini is done for the sole purpose of offense then fine. but its not. and wearng a hijab is not an offense to anyone either. people have the right to express themselves and as long as they are not oppressing others then it should be fine.

According to the "oppressors" it's due to hygiene, not religious oppression.

Originally posted by Sado22
not to mention that some times liberty [b]is achieved by making everyone uncomfortable.

~Sado [/B]

I agree, 100%.

The swimming pool officials did say that in swimming pools in France(it's been like this way before all this 'anti-muslim' stuff) all women must wear a swimming costume, and all men swimming trunks. In most men are not allowed to wear shorts due to the hygiene angle, so a whole outfit more or less is obviously a no no. There are other countries the same.

When I was younger, I wore a t-shirt made out of swimming costume type material when in a swimming pool in the far east(this was Singapore and they have a high % of Muslims), and I managed to swim in it for a few sessions, then I was told to take it off because they were not allowed. Swimming costume only.

There is also something to do with diving off boards too, you don't want to be diving of boards with loose clothing, and this burkini has enough material to catch on a board, this is a danger to the diver, and also to others, so that is another no no. Unlike almost skin tight trunks/costumes.

Apparently, all must shower before entering the swimming pool in France... I don't remember showering here in Britain when I went swimming before hand.

They are obviously big on the health thing in France, nothing more.

At least someone has sense:

Mouloud Aounit, head of the anti-racism group known as MRAP, said the decision to ban Carole from the pool appeared fair, since pool authorities were observing regulations. But Aounit lamented that the incident was likely to fuel religious tensions.

"The rules must be the same for everybody, regardless of the color of their skin or their religion," Aounit said. "The concern I have is that this case will again lead to stigmatization of the Muslim population in France."

Originally posted by Sado22
aside from Saudi Arabia, women can wear whatever they want in Arab countries. at the beach or anywhere else.

This is simply wrong. Last time a woman tried to wear what she wants in Iran she ended up with 20 lashes.
Honour killings went up as soon as west invented short skirts and jeans.

Originally posted by Sado22
[b]BOTH actually. men and women.[/B]

Dynamic duo Mo and Al are working over time I see.
I have never heard of a man to shave, nor I have read anywhere that he must.

Mostly because it doesn't matter in Islam how stinking and disgusting the man is, as long as woman submits herself since she is 'deficient in intelligence'...then it's alright.

Originally posted by Sado22
whats oppressive about wearing a hijab or burkini?

~Sado

I'm sorry, care to cite me where I say it is oppressive to wear it?

Originally posted by Sado22
i wonder how things would've been if blacks, women and homosexuals were thinking from this point of view.
blacks: oh no, they hate us. i think we should leave everything and go back to africa
homos: yeah, they hate us too. lets just get up and leave this place.
women: yeah, men aren't giving us the deserved equality. lets just leave this planet.

heck, nothing would be done. nothing would change. liberty MEANS the right for everyone to put their beliefs on the table and give an open invitations to others. now if this burkini is done for the sole purpose of offense then fine. but its not. and wearng a hijab is not an offense to anyone either. people have the right to express themselves and as long as they are not oppressing others then it should be fine.

not to mention that some times liberty [b]is achieved by making everyone uncomfortable.

~Sado [/B]

and yes i read the article and tired of hearing people using race and religion as excuse so they can get by with stuff.

she should atleast be happy they let her swim there but with proper swimsuit but no she wanted to be hard headed and stick to her burkini. thinks she can get by with breaking the rules in another country because her religion comes 1st.

what if she walked in a christian church in the states and asked her to remove the scarf off her head due to respect of entering the house of god what would you say to that ?

Originally posted by inimalist
wow, its like you guys have never heard of a single person who has fought their government for individual liberty

let me put this to you, what do you do if you are both a patriot, yet want more individual liberty? You are to get out of the place you call your home?

like, did you think before you posted?

not to mention that you clearly didn't read the article

My politically incorrect opinion is if someone wants to live a certain way, ie Muslim and arn´t happy with where they are they should move to somewhere else where that way of life is normal, and not try and impose it on the country and everyone else.

If your a Muslim and you don´t like women running about in mini skirts, people wearing very little in swimming pools, church bells etc then move to Afghanistan or some other backward middle ages country, which itself has come about because of these illogical religious practices.

Ban open religion, there is not proof of it so why should it effect the political climate. If people want to pray and do weird shit, then let them do it in the privacy of their home.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
My politically incorrect opinion is if someone wants to live a certain way, ie Muslim and arn´t happy with where they are they should move to somewhere else where that way of life is normal, and not try and impose it on the country and everyone else.

Exactly my view.

Originally posted by chomperx9
so when you visit another country and you dont agree to their rules your gonna go by what you do in your country not what they tell you to do ?

no, but if the country I was born into was not allowing me to express my religious views, I would certainly take up that fight

maybe you should actually read the article

it is a French woman who converted to Islam

Originally posted by Bicnarok
My politically incorrect opinion is if someone wants to live a certain way, ie Muslim and arn´t happy with where they are they should move to somewhere else where that way of life is normal, and not try and impose it on the country and everyone else.

If your a Muslim and you don´t like women running about in mini skirts, people wearing very little in swimming pools, church bells etc then move to Afghanistan or some other backward middle ages country, which itself has come about because of these illogical religious practices.

Ban open religion, there is not proof of it so why should it effect the political climate. If people want to pray and do weird shit, then let them do it in the privacy of their home.

jesus ****ing christ, this issue isn't that some afghani woman wanted to see less **** at the pool

the issue is that a French citizen wanted to wear what, and yes the hygiene argument is preposterous, was a perfectly acceptable swimsuit, and was not allowed for some reason.

READ THE ****ING ARTICLE PLEASE

Calm down, will you! And easy on the swearing.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You point fails to actually contradict lil B. In fact, it only proves her point. The Muslims in France, of which she was referring are, the lot of them, much better off than the African Americans or Women of whom you spoke.

this is essentially moot. It doesn't matter how people are treated in other nations. The issue is how people are treated in their own nation.

Like, its funny lil B decided to say "they need to go home" in this thread, yet has chastised the forum for not being critical enough of abuses in Muslim nations.

Yes, people who are oppressed do leave their home nation. Is this a good thing? Are we supposed to go "hurray, you are oppressing people, now all they have to do is get out". No

And if this were applied to anything other than Islam, there would be no arguments.

Originally posted by dadudemon
According to the "oppressors" it's due to hygiene, not religious oppression.

which, unfortunately, is ridiculous

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Calm down, will you!

lol, never!

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
And easy on the swearing.

isn't that what the filter is for?

but yes, calming and censoring

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
in Iran

technically Persian, not Arab

though, wouldn't you say women fighting for the right to religious expression in Iran should be supported rather than told to leave if they don't like it?

Originally posted by inimalist
this is essentially moot. It doesn't matter how people are treated in other nations. The issue is how people are treated in their own nation.

Like, its funny lil B decided to say "they need to go home" in this thread, yet has chastised the forum for not being critical enough of abuses in Muslim nations.

Yes, people who are oppressed do leave their home nation. Is this a good thing? Are we supposed to go "hurray, you are oppressing people, now all they have to do is get out". No

And if this were applied to anything other than Islam, there would be no arguments.

which, unfortunately, is ridiculous

Where is the logic in ''I'm being perecuted in a country, I know I'll immigrate in another country, and because they can't stone me there I am going to moan and whine and try to change the whole system to fit what I want''

If you don't like it, go where it is better for you - end of story. Not change and demand random things to be adjusted for you.

THEY came to a country and THEY should adapt. If they don't want to, then they should go where kind of behaviour they like is a norm.

Not a rocket science.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Where is the logic in ''I'm being perecuted in a country, I know I'll immigrate in another country, and because they can't stone me there I am going to moan and whine and try to change the whole system to fit what I want''

If you don't like it, go where it is better for you - end of story. Not change and demand random things to be adjusted for you.

THEY came to a country and THEY should adapt. If they don't want to, then they should go where kind of behaviour they like is a norm.

Not a rocket science.

lol

this is what I was swearing about

the issue at hand is not a woman who immigrated from another country, but one who wishes to have religious expression in the country she was born in.

even if it was an immigrant, I don't see why this particular bathing suit would be banned. But, we disagree on the state enforcing culture, and technically, the French constitution does have a section about maintaining french culture.

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

this is what I was swearing about

the issue at hand is not a woman who immigrated from another country, but one who wishes to have religious expression in the country she was born in.

even if it was an immigrant, I don't see why this particular bathing suit would be banned. But, we disagree on the state enforcing culture, and technically, the French constitution does have a section about maintaining french culture.

I understand that, but in the post I quoted you talk about me and my opinion about oppression in Islamic countries, therefore I answered to that.
I have read the article.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I understand that, but in the post I quoted you talk about me and my opinion about oppression in Islamic countries, therefore I answered to that.
I have read the article.

fair enough

and I'm sure we could largely sit around agreeing about these things. I don't feel immigrants have a right to come into a country and demand thing be the way they were in their home.

I'm fine with telling them that in a secular nation they HAVE to respect their women, children, etc. They wont have Sharia law, they wont have a separate school system, etc.

And a lot of muslim immigrants do want these things, so I can appreciate where you are coming from.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
My politically incorrect opinion is if someone wants to live a certain way, ie Muslim and arn´t happy with where they are they should move to somewhere else where that way of life is normal, and not try and impose it on the country and everyone else.

If your a Muslim and you don´t like women running about in mini skirts, people wearing very little in swimming pools, church bells etc then move to Afghanistan or some other backward middle ages country, which itself has come about because of these illogical religious practices.

Ban open religion, there is not proof of it so why should it effect the political climate. If people want to pray and do weird shit, then let them do it in the privacy of their home.

If the hygienic reasons they cited actually apply it is fair for them to ban it. But if it is just based on ignorance and islamophobia that is worrying. I read that some German pools actually banned bathing shorts for hygienic reasons, so perhaps there is some validity to the French official's claims. On the other hand there is a very strong hatred towards Islam and a mindset of countering wrongs perceived by Islamic nations or the religion itself with disregard to the values that are meant to be protected.

I have never heard of a man to shave, nor I have read anywhere that he must. Mostly because it doesn't matter in Islam how stinking and disgusting the man is, as long as woman submits herself since she is 'deficient in intelligence'...then it's alright.

and there's another one that specifically asks men to cut their hair from the pubic and armpits every fortnight.

its even more curious what you say because Sulman Rushdi mocks how muslims waste water because of all the cleaning they have to do.

This is simply wrong. Last time a woman tried to wear what she wants in Iran she ended up with 20 lashes.

besides, i think people should stop commenting on countries they've never visited. in case you didn't know, women are even allowed to wear bathing suits in KSA as long as the area is private or enclosed. which is pretty big compromise when you thnk about it.

Honour killings went up as soon as west invented short skirts and jeans.

I'm sorry, care to cite me where I say it is oppressive to wear it?

what if she walked in a christian church in the states and asked her to remove the scarf off her head due to respect of entering the house of god what would you say to that ?

Over 20,000 free blacks left due to the Fugitive Slave Act. They went to Canada. Thousands of African Americans leaving because of oppressive whites? Check.

I know of at least two gay, male, couples who left Oklahoma and are now living in France...because it sucked so bad for them here in Oklahoma. (There's some really mean a**holes, here in Oklahoma. Oklahoma will be the last state to legalize gay marriage. FACT.

oh and i'm not actually criticizing people who choose to leave either.

~Sado

fair enough.
and I'm sure we could largely sit around agreeing about these things. I don't feel immigrants have a right to come into a country and demand thing be the way they were in their home.
I'm fine with telling them that in a secular nation they HAVE to respect their women, children, etc. They wont have Sharia law, they wont have a separate school system, etc.
And a lot of muslim immigrants do want these things, so I can appreciate where you are coming from.

the fact remains however that when it comes to religion or deeply personal things few people are willing to change happily. a compromise has to be made and banning a lady from wearing a burkini in her own country isn't a good way to go about it.

Originally posted by inimalist
this is essentially moot.

Not to Sado's point, it isn't.

Sado was saying that this women doesn't have the option of going anywhere because it's not an option. He used examples.

African Americans in young America.

Homosexual people in America.

Oppressed women.

All three examples fail because they did try to rid themselves of their oppression.

That's what I was contradicting. Not that the French should be less oppressive, more accepting, etc. That's not what I was contradicting at all.

Originally posted by inimalist
It doesn't matter how people are treated in other nations..

When Sado was using it to prove his point, it does.

Originally posted by inimalist
The issue is how people are treated in their own nation.

I don't know jack about Black peoples and their history in France.

However, his point wasn't and shouldn't be specific to just France. No one here is a voting French citizen. This is a dicussion, in general, from people from multiple nations. It's whether or not what happened was right or wrong.

Originally posted by inimalist
Like, its funny lil B decided to say "they need to go home" in this thread, yet has chastised the forum for not being critical enough of abuses in Muslim nations.

Did she really say that, verbatim? I thought it was "conform to the rules, or GTFO of the country" type of deal. Not, "go back to your country." If she said that, that would be incorrect.

Originally posted by inimalist
Yes, people who are oppressed do leave their home nation. Is this a good thing? Are we supposed to go "hurray, you are oppressing people, now all they have to do is get out". No

I agree. However, my point to Sado was that people DO leave when oppressed. Even if "leaving" is leaving this plane of reality.

Originally posted by inimalist
And if this were applied to anything other than Islam, there would be no arguments.

I am not sure what you mean, here. Are you saying Muslims are a bunch of whiners? Define "this" and I would understand what you mean.

Originally posted by inimalist
which, unfortunately, is ridiculous

Is it? Or is there truth to it?

Like I said earlier, if they cited safety, then they'd be right. I am iffy about his hygiene. I can't rule it out as it would be close minded and foolish for me to think that hygiene really doesn't play a roll. However, you may have seen a study I didn't...since I haven't, I can't confidentially say that hygiene plays a roll. If you are aware of a study or some sort of research on this, post it. That would totally destroy the French's point about hygiene.