Originally posted by dadudemon
Like I said earlier, if they cited safety, then they'd be right. I am iffy about his hygiene. I can't rule it out as it would be close minded and foolish for me to think that hygiene really doesn't play a roll. However, you may have seen a study I didn't...since I haven't, I can't confidentially say that hygiene plays a roll. If you are aware of a study or some sort of research on this, post it. That would totally destroy the French's point about hygiene.
study of what? chlorine?
what could the possible hygiene hazard be?
I used to work at a public pool, with the amount of chemicals in it, you could roll around in the dirt and jump right in, the chlorine is still doing more damage to you than anything you brought in is doing as far as making the pool less hygienic.
We used to let people swim in shirts, as long as it wasn't what they wore in, so the comment before about shirts on the diving board, ridiculous. (not by you, just something that was said)
It is a bathing suit, made from the proper material, that just happens to cover all of the skin as opposed to not. you are a smart guy, you understand the basics of human hygiene, tell me how that makes sense? She would still have to shower like all other swimmers to get into the pool. Something being "Halal" (I know thats dietary, sue me) doesn't make it produce more dirt that chlorine is incapable of neutralizing.
For instance, when someone pukes or poops in a pool, the contamination is, essentially, 100% taken care of immediately. Poo bacteria do not survive in levels of chlorine which are in pools. Obviously there are safety precautions, and health Canada does require a certain amount of time for full filtration, but in theory, you could swim in poopy pool water with little concern... though, eye infections seem to be the exception to this rule... (not that they are caused by poo bacteria, just that the viruses seem to pass from children to lifeguards really easily in the water)
Originally posted by Sado22
agreed. the problem is the french already have carried out the controversial business with the headscarfs...so islamophobia is the first thing that comes to mind when this burkini thing appears. maybe its not fair, but last i checked you should be a little careful to NOT poke the bear after you've already wounded it once.hadith, quoted by Aisha the wife of Muhammed:
"There are ten things related to a man's nature: trimming the mustaches, letting the beard grow, brushing the teeth, using water to clean the nose, cutting the nails, washing clean the finger joints, removing the hair from under the armpits, shaving the pubes and using water for cleansing after the call of nature..."and there's another one that specifically asks men to cut their hair from the pubic and armpits [b]every fortnight.
its even more curious what you say because Sulman Rushdi mocks how muslims waste water because of all the cleaning they have to do.
and yet, for every hardlined muslim country you mention i can mention five that allow such things. egypt, syria, lebanon, moroco, uae, qater, bahrain etc etc etc are all good with bikinis, tanktops, miniskirts, hotpants you name it. and here you are commenting on the muslim condition based on TWO countries infamous as being the most hardlined of all. heck, why not mention the taliban preventing women from getting educated too? i heard that was a perfect depiction of muslims 😂
besides, i think people should stop commenting on countries they've never visited. in case you didn't know, women are even allowed to wear bathing suits in KSA as long as the area is private or enclosed. which is pretty big compromise when you thnk about it.
i disagree. like i said before, don't comment on whole regions that you've obviously never visited and know next to nothing about. people are going to start judging entire nations on the acts of a deluded handful. its like me watching rednecks in movies and saying all americans are like that. they aren't. and certianly, unless you're talking about slums and really, really backwards areas honor killings practically a myth.
i wasn't talking to you actually. thought that was obvious.
they ask you to take the scarf off in churches?
anyway, yeah then probably she should because she's entering the house of christian god and she has to respect it, provided she's entering on her own free will. and this example of yours works against you in ways because you automatically brought out the gravity of the situation everyone's pretending doesn't exist: the woman is wearing the burkini for religious reasons. not fashion. not personal statements.point was that the equality wasn't attained by this migration.
i believe you, man. but we're talkng about changing the world and everyone's stance to it. i could always ignore idiotic, ignorant morons misquoting and slandering my religion and my friends' religionss and leave the forums. but i'm not changing anything. that was my point.
oh and i'm not actually criticizing people who choose to leave either.
~Sado [/B]
The most hilarious thing is you telling me about commenting countries in the Middle East. Even more ironic is implying I have never ''been'' to any of them.
Obviously you just assumed things about me, therefore your post became hilarious.
In case it is not clear to you, all the countries you mentioned above, allow Western women to wear such clothes and NOT outside the DESIGNATED areas.
And you have the nerve to quote Aisha, the child bride of paranoid paedophile Mohammad.
Seriously...let's not even go there.
Originally posted by Sado22
its a matter of identity that complicates things. it is as awkward for muslim women to wear a bikini in public as it is for western women to wear a hijab. its when either side refuses to see it from the other prespective is when things get out of hand. you're right that some muslims can be overly demanding, i agree, and lot of times they are the overzealous ones themselves.
I'm just talking about specific issues that come up. For instance, sharia courts in Britian and their attempt at being implemented in Canada. Or the reactions in the face of the cartoons of Mohammed.
These are issues that have long been laid to rest in Western nations, and equality under the law and the freedom of speech are not only cultural values, but values that better the state of humanity.
I'm with you, it is complex, and people will have to learn to tolerate that which is different from themselves, but there is a limit where this demand for tolerance clearly crosses the line into imposing new restrictions on individual liberty.
It was never ok (in the secular context), be it from Jews, Christians, Hindus, Bahai, Krishnas, Buddhists, atheists or any other religious group, to restrict the freedom of others in accordance with some form of religious rules. Muslims do not get to change individual liberty rights simply because they are against some interpretations of the religion.
god, this makes me want to rant on how moronic the "clash of civilizations" is, maybe I'll make a new thread sometime.
Originally posted by Sado22
the fact remains however that when it comes to religion or deeply personal things few people are willing to change happily. a compromise has to be made and banning a lady from wearing a burkini in her own country isn't a good way to go about it.
that is essentially my point. and that she should be allowed to in a free country
I tend to think, if we did a survey of the Islamic world, we could find more than TWO nations who meet the same criteria that Iran and Saudi Arabia do for being " infamous as being the most hardlined of all". Sudan comes to mind... lol
The most hilarious thing is you telling me about commenting countries in the Middle East. Even more ironic is implying I have never ''been'' to any of them. Obviously you just assumed things about me, therefore your post became hilarious.
In case it is not clear to you, all the countries you mentioned above, allow Western women to wear such clothes and NOT outside the DESIGNATED areas.
And you have the nerve to quote Aisha, the child bride of paranoid paedophile Mohammad. Seriously...let's not even go there.
get your act together, woman 😂
~Sado
Originally posted by Sado22
yes, no one's denying that here are hardlined muslim countries. but lilbitchiness is talking as if all muslims countries are like that. which is why i said that for everyone harlined one she can name i can name five that aren't.you clearly don't know what you're talking about and talk about muslim countries with a clear second-hand knowledge (usng that term very loosely). that's why.
i [b]live
in UAE, sweety. women can wear pretty much anything they want, anywhere they want. look it up, meet some people from there, try visiting the place...becuse unless you do, your comments and "observations" don't mean squat.its a hadith. authentic, reliable source. what are you basing your (ignorant) claims on the hygiene of muslim men? and your credibilty plummets even more with your pedophile comment.
btw, mods aren't allowed to insult people, let alone their religion.get your act together, woman 😂
~Sado [/B]
Where have I said ANYTHING about hygene of any men in the thread. Please quote.
Yeah sing me a song about what middle east is really like. Tell us about how everyhting is damn peachy, everyone is wearing what they like and everything is bloody great.
I have been to middle east, I had family in the middle east - and unless you're talking about Israel, the most democratic place of all, all else is really random bla bla.
And insulting a religion? How is that? It is the truth. If you're insulted, that is your problem.
You just contradicted yourself - it is in the hadith we find that Aisha was playing with dolls, was no more than 6 years old when 54 year old man married and 9 years old when he violated - in other terms, it is called pedophilia.
Originally posted by inimalist
study of what? chlorine?
Sure.
Whatever you were referring to.
Originally posted by inimalist
what could the possible hygiene hazard be?
I don't know. You concluded that it was b.s., though. I figured you had read a study or something in order for you to conclude. I figured that you knew specifically what they were referring to when they cited "hygiene" as you seemed very sure of yourself.
Me, being the curious person that I am, was genuinely interested in what you had to say.
If you can utterly destroy their argument with a study, that would be quite awesome.
Originally posted by inimalist
I used to work at a public pool, with the amount of chemicals in it, you could roll around in the dirt and jump right in, the chlorine is still doing more damage to you than anything you brought in is doing as far as making the pool less hygienic.
What does it mean to be "hygienic"? They make everyone get out of the pool when a kid pukes, or takes a crap in the pool. They cite "hygiene". So, is there something else about a full body cotton suit thingy that puts it in the same line as pooping pool kids?
You swiftly concluded that it was B.S., so I was wondering how you were able to do so. (I couldn't confidentially conclude so. Do the French know something I don't about it? I dunno. They might....I hate making hasty conclusions later to be proven wrong. That's why I am practically begging you for info on your conclusion.)
Originally posted by inimalist
We used to let people swim in shirts, as long as it wasn't what they wore in, so the comment before about shirts on the diving board, ridiculous. (not by you, just something that was said)
Yeah, I've heard that rule. Something about mold, algae, or something. this has been proven to me...maybe.
My brother and I did a test on my uncle's pool one year. My older brother argued with our uncle, stating that wearing our shirts wouldn't get the pool with that green algae stuff on the sides. My uncle said it would.
So we made a bet.
We swam in our shirts we wore, most of the summer. Sure enough, algae started to sprout up and our uncle had to treat the pool with that algae treatment stuff.
Now, that is rather anecdotal and we didn't have a control for this little experiment. The algae could have sprung up from other factors. But it certainly proved the "myth" to my brother and I when we were kids.
Maybe that's what they mean by "hygiene"? I dunno.
Originally posted by inimalist
It is a bathing suit, made from the proper material, that just happens to cover all of the skin as opposed to not. you are a smart guy, you understand the basics of human hygiene, tell me how that makes sense? She would still have to shower like all other swimmers to get into the pool. Something being "Halal" (I know thats dietary, sue me) doesn't make it produce more dirt that chlorine is incapable of neutralizing.
I have no idea how it's a problem. I don't think there's a problem with hygiene, at all. That's my opinion. I just don't want to look like a dumbass when someone whips out a study that makes me look at a fool...because we all know how much I hate being wrong. 😆
Originally posted by inimalist
For instance, when someone pukes or poops in a pool, the contamination is, essentially, 100% taken care of immediately. Poo bacteria do not survive in levels of chlorine which are in pools.
Yeah. That's what I thought.
Originally posted by inimalist
Obviously there are safety precautions, and health Canada does require a certain amount of time for full filtration, but in theory, you could swim in poopy pool water with little concern... though, eye infections seem to be the exception to this rule... (not that they are caused by poo bacteria, just that the viruses seem to pass from children to lifeguards really easily in the water)
That's gross......
But that's what I heard from a pool sanitation person at the CSRC.
Where have I said ANYTHING about hygene of any men in the thread. Please quote.
I have never heard of a man to shave, nor I have read anywhere that he must. Mostly because it doesn't matter in Islam how stinking and disgusting the man is, as long as woman submits herself since she is 'deficient in intelligence'...then it's alright.
Yeah sing me a song about what middle east is really like. Tell us about how everyhting is damn peachy, everyone is wearing what they like and everything is bloody great.
I have been to middle east, I had family in the middle east - and unless you're talking about Israel, the most democratic place of all, all else is really random bla bla.
And insulting a religion? How is that? It is the truth. If you're insulted, that is your problem.
which gets me to the next point: you insulted the prophet of islam. insult him and you insult my religion. fact. more than that though it was UNCALLED FOR. this wasn't a debate about religion. this wasn't about muhammed and his wife. this was about you makng a baseless claim about muslim men, which i proved isn't true and you're clealry bent about it. grow up.
You just contradicted yourself - it is in the hadith we find that Aisha was playing with dolls, was no more than 6 years old when 54 year old man married and 9 years old when he violated - in other terms, it is called pedophilia.
as for this pedophilia business, it doesn't belong here so take it somewhere else. whole things' been covered in another thread. i don't wish to repeat myself but i'll just say this: "culture governs what pedophilia is. not you."
and as it stands, your words were out of line, uncalled for and have NOTHING to do with the debate at hand.
~Sado
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
in other terms, it is called pedophilia.
pedophilia is the sexual compulsion toward children. Like other paraphelias, it is not simply the attraction or the act, but the fact that one only attains sexual gratification through otherwise "abnormal" sexual acts.
Also, something cannot be considered "abnormal" in the sense that it becomes a paraphelia if it is a widespread cultural practice.
this is entirely semantics, and the marriage and bedding of a prepubescent girl is something that needs no condemnation (as it is obviously abhorrent and should not be acceptable). I'd argue, from a mental health perspective, that it does not qualify as pedophilia.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Me, being the curious person that I am, was genuinely interested in what you had to say.
it is essentially from logic and experience. We had to learn all this stuff to become lifeguards (as we did treat and monitor pool chemical levels).
Originally posted by dadudemon
If you can utterly destroy their argument with a study, that would be quite awesome.
There probably aren't any studies of the sort. My bigger question is what is the contaminant supposedly on this woman that would not be on any other swimmer?
there would be studies about how destructive chlorine is.
Originally posted by dadudemon
We swam in our shirts we wore, most of the summer. Sure enough, algae started to sprout up and our uncle had to treat the pool with that algae treatment stuff.
interesting, I can't say I have any really good answers, other than algae isn't bacteria.
When I guarded, the vests we wore were normally kept in lockers at the pool, and if someone took a week off and forgot to hang theirs properly, it would get that mold smell.
Possibly something like that, but, it would apply equally to all swimmers, and the woman wasn't trying to wear her outdoor burka in to pool, it was a specially designed swimming suit.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That's gross......But that's what I heard from a pool sanitation person at the CSRC.
well, for instance, if someone poos on the bottom of the deep end, there are often not large enough nets to "scoop" it, and a "lucky" guard gets to jump in and get it. This would be 100% against employee health and safety guidelines were it that dangerous.
From studies I've seen, you are in more danger from the chemicals used to treat pools than from what they are meant to treat.
pedophilia is the sexual compulsion toward children. Like other paraphelias, it is not simply the attraction or the act, but the fact that one only attains sexual gratification through otherwise "abnormal" sexual acts.Also, something cannot be considered "abnormal" in the sense that it becomes a paraphelia if it is a widespread cultural practice.
this is entirely semantics, and the marriage and bedding of a prepubescent girl is something that needs no condemnation (as it is obviously abhorrent and should not be acceptable). I'd argue, from a mental health perspective, that it does not qualify as pedophilia
Originally posted by Sado22
here:which is rubbish.
first of all, i'm not an arab. i have no loyalties to them but i'd rather some ignorant western chick sitting 1000's of miles away stops pretending she knows more about the place i lived in for sixteen years than i do.
where exactly in the middle east? how long ago? and for how long? and how old were you?
no its not MY problem. it becomes a problem when a woman whose supposed to be holding up rules lets her ego get the better of her after her (lack of) argument skills couldn't stop her from looking stupid. you made a comment about muslim men, utterly failed to defend it and when i provide a source you started insulting my religion.
which gets me to the next point: you insulted the prophet of islam. insult him and you insult my religion. fact. more than that though it was UNCALLED FOR. this wasn't a debate about religion. this wasn't about muhammed and his wife. this was about you makng a baseless claim about muslim men, which i proved isn't true and you're clealry bent about it. grow up.
its not the only hadith i mentioned. i can narrate several of them but it'll be redundant because you've already been proven wrong.
as for this pedophilia business, it doesn't belong here so take it somewhere else. whole things' been covered in another thread. i don't wish to repeat myself but i'll just say this: "culture governs what pedophilia is. not you."
and as it stands, your words were out of line, uncalled for and have NOTHING to do with the debate at hand.~Sado
What does it matter how old I was?
And of course, you calling me stupid comes with your religion, doesn't it, because women are 'deficient in intelligence' and we're all going to hell anyway, right?
Because when Muhammad saw hell, it was overly populated by women...and all that shit.
My comment had nothing to do with generalisation of Muslim men - although strolling through certain parts of middle east, for you who claim to be cleaner than us non-muslims, you failed somewhere at some point.
And lets get this straight, you call the rest of us najis, your prophet does, and so do Muslims, so don't preach to me about. You call the rest of us pigs and monkeys, your prohpet murdered numer of people in the name of your religion, and so do his followers. I have the right to say whatever the hell I like about Muhamed.
I don't give rats ass if you're an Arab or Pakistani or Persian or a Westener or an African - I don't care. Makes no difference whatsoever.
And Hadith only applies when you have something to say? So some Hadiths are relevant because it suits you, and others are not because they don't suit you - stupid argument, and unfortunately not the first time I heard it.
Like it or not, In clinical terms, man of 45 being attracted to a 6 year old is called pedophilia.
Hadiths all talk about atrocities Muhammad commited against Jews, Christians and Pagan Arabs, and if you don't like it being said - again your problem.
Myth of Islam is crumbling down - you can sell that crap to some ignorant western liberal, but not to the rest of us who have felt Islam's ''goodness'' on our own skin.
Originally posted by inimalist
pedophilia is the sexual compulsion toward children. Like other paraphelias, it is not simply the attraction or the act, but the fact that one only attains sexual gratification through otherwise "abnormal" sexual acts.Also, something cannot be considered "abnormal" in the sense that it becomes a paraphelia if it is a widespread cultural practice.
this is entirely semantics, and the marriage and bedding of a prepubescent girl is something that needs no condemnation (as it is obviously abhorrent and should not be acceptable). I'd argue, from a mental health perspective, that it does not qualify as pedophilia.
One can be a pedophile, yet still be attracted to and sexually gratified by an adult partner, no?
I.E. Being a pedophile doesn't mean you only have sexual attractions to children.
Look, regardless of any irrelevant notions of Islamophobia, and regardless of what your opinion on the hygiene situation is, the situation is actually simple as this- there are laws about what both men and women can and cannot wear in French swimming pools. The lifeguards have an obligation to enforce those laws and can lose their jobs and even be held legally accountable if they do not. Her outfit broke those laws.
If you think the law is silly, fine. But the ridiculous conclusions being drawn from this are sorrowful.
Originally posted by inimalist
it is essentially from logic and experience. We had to learn all this stuff to become lifeguards (as we did treat and monitor pool chemical levels).
Well, we can chalk your opinion up as professional opinion, then. That's fine. I am far more likely to believe that you're telling the truth than say, someone telling us that they've met famous physicists, making their point right. (That actually happened on KMC.)
Originally posted by inimalist
There probably aren't any studies of the sort. My bigger question is what is the contaminant supposedly on this woman that would not be on any other swimmer?there would be studies about how destructive chlorine is.
I agree. If it's just like any other swim suit, then it should be okay to bring it to the pool, especially if she doesn't wear it to the pool.
Originally posted by inimalist
interesting, I can't say I have any really good answers, other than algae isn't bacteria.
Anecdotal and it could have been coincidental. Wasn't controlled. I'm sure it has some truth to it as it says stuff like that in pool newb guides...
Originally posted by inimalist
When I guarded, the vests we wore were normally kept in lockers at the pool, and if someone took a week off and forgot to hang theirs properly, it would get that mold smell.
Yeah. And leaving them in the grass or some place is like...bad n'stuff.
Originally posted by inimalist
Possibly something like that, but, it would apply equally to all swimmers, and the woman wasn't trying to wear her outdoor burka in to pool, it was a specially designed swimming suit.
This was wear (look at me, I'm punny) I was coming from.
I don't think the clothing is any different from anyone else, especially since they all should be rinsing off before getting in, anyway.
Originally posted by inimalist
well, for instance, if someone poos on the bottom of the deep end, there are often not large enough nets to "scoop" it, and a "lucky" guard gets to jump in and get it. This would be 100% against employee health and safety guidelines were it that dangerous.From studies I've seen, you are in more danger from the chemicals used to treat pools than from what they are meant to treat.
Not to be gross, butt (twice, in one post. I'm on a roll) just think of all the bust crusties that were dissolved into the pool. Just think of the smegma, blood from PMS, urine crusties, boogers, etc. Ewwwwwwwwwwww. 😘
What does it matter how old I was?
And of course, you calling me stupid comes with your religion, doesn't it, because women are 'deficient in intelligence' and we're all going to hell anyway, right? Because when Muhammad saw hell, it was overly populated by women...and all that shit
My comment had nothing to do with generalisation of Muslim men - although strolling through certain parts of middle east, for you who claim to be cleaner than us non-muslims, you failed somewhere at some point.
And lets get this straight, you call the rest of us najis, your prophet does, and so do Muslims, so don't preach to me about. You call the rest of us pigs and monkeys, your prohpet murdered numer of people in the name of your religion, and so do his followers. I have the right to say whatever the hell I like about Muhamed.
I don't give rats ass if you're an Arab or Pakistani or Persian or a Westener or an African - I don't care. Makes no difference whatsoever.
And Hadith only applies when you have something to say? So some Hadiths are relevant because it suits you, and others are not because they don't suit you - stupid argument, and unfortunately not the first time I heard it.
Like it or not, In clinical terms, man of 45 being attracted to a 6 year old is called pedophilia.
Hadiths all talk about atrocities Muhammad commited against Jews, Christians and Pagan Arabs, and if you don't like it being said - again your problem.
Myth of Islam is crumbling down - you can sell that crap to some ignorant western liberal, but not to the rest of us who have felt Islam's ''goodness'' on our own skin.
so the comment before about shirts on the diving board, ridiculous. (not by you, just something that was said)
I made a diving board comment and it is not ridiculous at all, it's common sense and it's looked at in rules and regulations. You will find in most places, loose clothing is not to be worn when on diving boards. A burkini is loose.
It was another example of why not to wear loose material in a swimming pool.
You will find a lot of indoor water areas around the world will not allow loose material.
Originally posted by WhoopeeDee
Question...I've seen pictures of FAT gross Europeans wearing thong bikinis in public beaches of Europe....are those permitted in local pools? I'd swear...I wouldn't swim in a pool with those folks....hygine issues...I would take a sweaty turk bath over those beaches.
Which beaches? If we know the location, be better to determine what the pools are like....or try to, anyway.
Originally posted by MildPossession
I've never seen one so far in a swimming pool. Hope I never do, but then I don't like thongs on anyone.
Haha. What about hairy men with huge golden chains around their neck, golden watches and lots of other jewellery, sipping some drink with an umbrella in it...in a thong?