Originally posted by Philosophía
As Juntai once put it, Superman calls lost of people his equals, until he decides he's not and outperforms everybody's combined efforts.
Didn't you say not too long ago in another thread... That DC considers them equals and has written them as such? Regardless, of who has more feats or shown more.. DC writes them as equals and even writes Marvel to win one v one encounters. However, now your saying he just says that and there isn't on panel proof backing that up and DC hasn't written (views) them as having very similar stats and thus pretty equal?
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Superman considers everyone stronger then him. He views John stronger then the entire JLA. He says Icon's hit was the strongest he felt...etc. He always thinks highly of people.However, all this is proven wrong when it comes to down the fights and the feats.
Ummm... your saying you don't think the fights between Marvel and Supes confirm that they are near equals? I think their fights match supes words.
If you're going to bring up something I mentioned, try to get it right:
Originally posted by Philosophía
Arguments could be brought in favour of Superman. Plenty of them. But the truth is Captain Marvel has and always will be portrayed as around Superman physicall-wise, independently of Superman's upgrades in power. Ironically, the most 'clear' victory Superman has over Captain Marvel is the Byrne era version while he was posessed by Eclipso, when he beat him so bad other superheroes said it's a wonder he's still alive, while Eclipso Superman was good as ever, even repeatedly owning Lobo shortly afterwards.But that is 'normal' Superman. It has been shown that when it goes down, Superman is the guy you must go, as when he confronts the threats he displays a level of power above what he displays in normal circumstances and above his peers aswell. This has been proven numerous times, such as in OWAW, against Maggedon etc.
So yeah, Superman for a healthy majority.
Originally posted by Philosophía
If you're going to bring up something I mentioned, try to get it right:
So, what I said didn't express your sentiment in the above post of yours you quoted? I think the jist of what I said matches pretty close to what you said.
Superman has to rise to the occasion to win as he is DC's poster boy. I'm not really sure how him doing that someone means that his fights with Marvel and supes own words are discounted. Supes rising to the occasion and having to save the day while villians seem to get a bad case of CIS and thus supes wins somehow means Supes dominates Marvel? Not in my opinion.
Marvel and/or Black Adam can give Superman a lot to handle, that doesn't necessary mean that Superman is not superior, or is holding back.
It's seems like a radical concept to some to consider someone your peer and yet be that bit stronger, faster and more durable.
All this merely shows is that the man is fallible.
Originally posted by Allankles
Marvel and/or Black Adam can give Superman a lot to handle, that doesn't necessary mean that Superman is not superior, or is holding back.It's seems like a radical concept to some to consider someone your peer and yet be that bit stronger, faster and more durable.
All this merely shows is that the man is fallible.
All can be true no doubt. I personally would give the edge to supes in a one v one encounter against Marvel. However, it would be very close and Marvel would take some wins. The point I was making is that it isn't JUST Supes words... When they have had encounters his words have shown to be true. DC clearly feels they are roughly equal with Marvel having the Magical edge and Supes will say as the Dynamic/poster boy edge. The point is, I was simply saying.. BA trashes Marvel in their encounters and to think Supes would walk through BA is laughable.
These are the likely responses to this post:
You're talking out of your ass
You don't know what you're talking about
What you said is complete bullshit
etc
Anyhow. It is Proven Superman Holds back. Orion for example is a legitimate match for Superman at rest, but when not Holding back or as the expression goes; when stepping up Superman functions at a level where Orion cannot compete physically.
The same is true for Black Adam.
Black Adam has demonstrated more Than Any Other Marvel that he can magically amp himself through diverting Energy from Existing Marvels, Gods.. The Rock and its Artifacts to add to his existing power.
When we debate Thanos/Deadpool on KMC we take into account External sources which govern their powerset for example: Death and her Decree.
When we Debate Black Adam there is a reluctance to acknowledge in full the external aspects which drive his power.
In a Forum Fight Without The "responsibility" of sharing power with The Marvels DS and Superman working as a dynamic duo do not have enough In the Armoury To Survive a Forum Fight With BA.
Superman holds back against Black Adam.
BA is not actually equal to Superman... we have to look at Superman's high feats, and it becomes obvious. Even though BA really has no low feats... and his high feats range from ripping off Amazo's head, beating up Shazam Billy, to tearing through Spectre...
Uh dunno, this thread kind of gives me the 'wats?'. I can see Darkseid being given the win, but to go out of your way to try and prove Superman when fighting Darkseid>>>anyone close to him? It kind of gets, what's the word, weird?
Originally posted by Blanket
.BA is not actually equal to Superman...
BA really has no low feats... and his high feats range from ripping off Amazo's head, beating up Shazam Billy, to tearing through Spectre...
Uh dunno, this thread kind of gives me the 'wats?'.
BA has an open Powerset and draws Energy on an ad hoc basis From external power sources.
Originally posted by Blanket
Superman holds back against Black Adam.BA is not actually equal to Superman... we have to look at Superman's high feats, and it becomes obvious. Even though BA really has no low feats... and his high feats range from ripping off Amazo's head, beating up Shazam Billy, to tearing through Spectre...
Uh dunno, this thread kind of gives me the 'wats?'. I can see Darkseid being given the win, but to go out of your way to try and prove Superman when fighting Darkseid>>>anyone close to him? It kind of gets, what's the word, weird?
Well you see, to me all the feats supes has doesn't give him the automatic win over people. For example, Supes has way more strength feats then Galactus, Thanos, Juggs, Mangog, Doomsday etc etc yet do I think Supes is stronger then any of the above named... not really. If we go by feats we could then say he's obviously 10000000 x times stronger then them. Problem is, those types of strength feats aren't the be all, end all proof of strength superiority. So, how does being DC's poster boy and HAVING to do incredible feats on the regular to come out on top, mean we just forget that is the case and why that happens. Do we forget that really Supes shouldn't be able to beat people he does but does so because he's the poster boy. People like to act like this doesn't factor in but it does. People then say oooo well supes has the strength feats to beat basically EVERYONE and then come to the conclusion he's stronger then anyone? I for one don't feel that way or think just that way.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Well you see, to me all the feats supes has doesn't give him the automatic win over people. For example, Supes has way more strength feats then Galactus, Thanos, Juggs, Mangog, Doomsday etc etc yet do I think Supes is stronger then any of the above named... not really. If we go by feats we could then say he's obviously 10000000 x times stronger then them. Problem is, those types of strength feats aren't the be all, end all proof of strength superiority. So, how does being DC's poster boy and HAVING to do incredible feats on the regular to come out on top, mean we just forget that is the case and why that happens. Do we forget that really Supes shouldn't be able to beat people he does but does so because he's the poster boy. People like to act like this doesn't factor in but it does. People then say oooo well supes has the strength feats to beat basically EVERYONE and then come to the conclusion he's stronger then anyone? I for one don't feel that way or think just that way.
Most people Superman fight are his peers. Though, he doesn't attempt to kill them. He is usually trying to reason with them. There are only a few character he doesn't try to reason with(DD, DS).
Look for he did against Subjekt 17. He killed him, and S17 admitted that Superman changed when he is start to have a cold heart. In their first encounter they were more even, but soon after Superman outclassed him.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So, what I said didn't express your sentiment in the above post of yours you quoted? I think the jist of what I said matches pretty close to what you said.Superman has to rise to the occasion to win as he is DC's poster boy. I'm not really sure how him doing that someone means that his fights with Marvel and supes own words are discounted. Supes rising to the occasion and having to save the day while villians seem to get a bad case of CIS and thus supes wins somehow means Supes dominates Marvel? Not in my opinion.
Jesus.
I said that eventough Superman calls many people his equals, when facing powerfull enemies he outperformes them and rises above his normal level, proving to be superior.
You then brought up something I said in another thread, that Captain Marvel will always be portrayed as near Superman physicall wise, in an attempt to make it seem like I'm contradicting myself when, in fact, you failed to mention that in the same post, I mentioned the exact same ideea I did here, that when faced against more powerfull opponents he rises above his normal (ie where Captain Marvel is placed at) level and outperforms any of his previous 'peers'.
And now you go 'didinotsaythesamething?' dur
You're quite the bright one, aren't you ?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Ummmm nothing to do with holding back at all really. On panel words and actions prove that supes considers Marvel his equal and in some cases even talked up Marvel because of his magical abilities. So, it's not a holding back issue but that is just how DC views them, which has been shown over and over again. However, we know that BA basically owns Marvel and yet people say Supes walks through BA... the same BA who trashes Marvel and has the same magical advantage... lol right.
facepalm
context?
physically, marvel is considered his equal (and possibly superior). when it comes to everything else, superman has an advantage. that's why superman said TOE TO TOE, rather than in general.
get it right next time.
Originally posted by Blanket
Superman holds back against Black Adam.BA is not actually equal to Superman... we have to look at Superman's high feats, and it becomes obvious. Even though BA really has no low feats... and his high feats range from ripping off Amazo's head, beating up Shazam Billy, to tearing through Spectre...
Uh dunno, this thread kind of gives me the 'wats?'. I can see Darkseid being given the win, but to go out of your way to try and prove Superman when fighting Darkseid>>>anyone close to him? It kind of gets, what's the word, weird?
It's not so much that he doesn't hold back as it is to him not going all-out. Like I said, in his normal portrayal, Captain Marvel and Black Adam are his peers.
Oversimplifying it ? We're not using high showings but pointing out how Superman was shown to be. His powerlevel is dependent on his mindset. Also, lulz at you complaining that we use high showings when you form an argument using Black Adam's highest ones.
Originally posted by Philosophía
Jesus.I said that eventough Superman calls many people his equals, when facing powerfull enemies he outperformes them and rises above his normal level, proving to be superior.
You then brought up something I said in another thread, that Captain Marvel will always be portrayed as near Superman physicall wise, in an attempt to make it seem like I'm contradicting myself when, in fact, you failed to mention that in the same post, I mentioned the exact same ideea I did here, that when faced against more powerfull opponents he rises above his normal (ie where Captain Marvel is placed at) level and outperforms any of his previous 'peers'.
And now you go 'didinotsaythesamething?' dur
You're quite the bright one, aren't you ?
I see another day of owning people eh Erik? 😂
Originally posted by Philosophía
It's not so much that he doesn't hold back as it is to him not going all-out. Like I said, in his normal portrayal, Captain Marvel and Black Adam are his peers.Oversimplifying it ? We're not using high showings but pointing out how Superman was shown to be. His powerlevel is dependent on his mindset. Also, lulz at you compaining that we use high showings when you form an argument using Black Adam's highest ones.
Ya, you are using high showings. 😐
It's like saying that Surfer is way above everyone his level in Marvel just because he has crushed people threatening the universe/multiverse... when Surfer needed to save it.
You missed da point. And no I wasn't forming an argument, it was an observation. I was saying that Black Adam also has high showings, but they're seemingly ignored, in favor of Superman's high showings time when he needs to shine...
EDIT: ****, now there's going to be like 5 posts quoting and arguing this. 🙁