Juggernaut (no shield) vs Hercules

Originally posted by Master Court
Not a strength feat. Too many variables. Durability, leverage, the fact it was a choke hold.

I'm asking for something that shows Juggernaut using nothing but strength. Has he ever one-shotted an asteroid twice the size of Earth? Or pierced the armor of a celestial with one hammer throw?

What in the history of Juggernaut actually proves he has more or equal physical strength than Thor or Hulk? Not just strength that contends with them, but is actually at least equal?

They'd say the same thing about Thor and Hulk, and Thor and Juggernaut.

These three are THE top guys in the uber-strength department in all of Marvel. Whenever someone thinks of strength and Marvel. It's Thor, Hulk, and Juggernaut. Often Hercules as well.

I never said Juggernaut is a weakling. He easily contends with Hulk. But Thor himself has implied the possibility that Hulk is stronger than him. That speaks volumes. True, it is in the air. I think that's the point.

But I just think the Juggernaut vs WWHulk match up can't be used as a strength feat. There's not only more evidence to support that it was Juggernaut's unstoppable momentum vs Hulk's strength, it's in their long-time-rival history that Juggernaut has always challenged Hulk to stop him. That's what they've always done when they locked up like that. I don't see why, after all their history, Juggernaut would suddenly not use his most famous and effective power, the only power that he has always beaten Hulk with, and suddenly decides to test his strength against the most powerful Hulk ever when he's never even tested it against the previous Hulk's or even done anything that could match any high feat the Hulk has performed.

Originally posted by leonidas
not terrible at all. it was also shown that way in the previous thor arc 411-412. you said he didn't have his force field up for the GB. he did. i'm not interested in his history--i was interested in the battle with thor specifically.

He didn't have his FF activated in 411-412, sorry.

i'm curious how you would explain the fact that nimrod physically knocked his helmet off though?

What part of it did you not understand?

i've no doubt he's had great showings without the FF. could herc take him? i don't know for sure. using his invulnerability (which has been removed in this thread) as it was depicted in thor, hercules could certainly take him though.

Removing his invulnerability essentially turns him back into Cain Marko. So this is Hercules vs. Cain Marko?

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
He didn't have his FF activated in 411-412, sorry.

really? that's amazing cuz the scan where the hammer was stopped was from thor 411. 😐

Removing his invulnerability essentially turns him back into Cain Marko. So this is Hercules vs. Cain Marko?

huh. so thor beat up cain marko? cain marko is the one who can take thor's punches and not bleed and last a full minute? yeah, then sure, it's herc vs that cain marko.

Originally posted by snoopdogg
If Hulk was so much stronger than Juggy he shouldn't have had any issues getting out of that hold.

no one is saying the difference is that big. and herc has done exceptionally well against the hulk when he's actually fought back.

Originally posted by leonidas
really? that's amazing cuz the scan where the hammer was stopped was from thor 411. 😐

You're right. It just wasn't activated when he got shot with the GF blast.

huh. so thor beat up cain marko? cain marko is the one who can take thor's punches and not bleed and last a full minute? yeah, then sure, it's herc vs that cain marko.

Absolutely since the moron writer portrayed the FF as the source of his invulnerability. Hercules would be as effective against the Juggernaut w/o the FF as he would be with it.

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
You're right. It just wasn't activated when he got shot with the GF blast.

Absolutely since the moron writer portrayed the FF as the source of his invulnerability. Hercules would be as effective against the Juggernaut w/o the FF as he would be with it.

while their at it why not give him a 2nd FF on top of the 1st? 😂

Originally posted by Knowsbleed33
You're right. It just wasn't activated when he got shot with the GF blast.

cool. now, since there was no visual representation of the FF when thor threw his hammer, and he never said he activated it, all you have to do is show that he DEACTIVATED it for the GB. it was up when he threw the hammer, but not up when he was GB'd? 😑

show me where he turned it off, otherwise, if he didn't, it can't be assumed he did.

Absolutely since the moron writer portrayed the FF as the source of his invulnerability. Hercules would be as effective against the Juggernaut w/o the FF as he would be with it.

not in this thread . . .

eh, i see this as a purposeful thread to try and depower juggernaut. you cant really say that thors mystical energy block only negated juggernauts force field because thor said it would block ALL magical energies. maybe cain marko was running on some sort of reserve energy that was why he still had SOME power. it is entirely possible that it negated his force field, his durability, his strength and any other ability juggernaut MIGHT HAVE HAD PREVIOUSLY.

if you are going to do that, then YES hercules could win.

otherwise, i think what this thread is trying to accomplish, if you put juggernaut and herc in the exact same body who would win? such as both of them in hercs body? or both of them in thors body? or both of them in captain americas body? and both of them control the body like they normally would their own??? thats what i'm getting from this. if thats the case then herc would pull out a win based on H2H skills only. he would land twice as many as juggernaut.

There has only been rare mentions of Juggernaut's shield. It's not like saying Wolverine vs so-and-so without adamantium. Juggernaut chooses when to use his shield. That's what it is. A shield. He pops it up to stop the occasional threat. But for the most part, he neither uses it, nor even NEEDS it.

Hercules is really strong, obviously planet busting level as we could gather from his feat of standing in for Atlas, but he doesn't have anything unique to use against Juggernaut. Thor has Mjolnir and phenomenal magical and mystical abilities. Hulk has unlimited strength that grows exponentially.

Hercules, while strong and all, is completely static power-wise. And while there's a lack of feats to guage Juggy's strength, his strength has easily challenged the durability of Thor and Hulk.

Like I said before. THE top three Marvel powerhouses; Thor, Hulk, and Juggernaut.

Basically, saying no-shield Juggernaut is saying standard Juggernaut. Juggernaut wins. I couldn't say stomp. But Juggernaut just won't fall to Hercules. And soon, Juggernaut runs him down.

Hercules controls Juggs on the ground for a UD.

If we go by what their own personal fights say and ignore the outside showings and assume Thor and Hercules are equals, then Hercules drops Juggernaut in this situation where his invulnerability is reduced. Thor was knocking him around, and was about to knock him out in 60 seconds.

Cain Marko FTW

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
If we go by what their own personal fights say and ignore the outside showings and assume Thor and Hercules are equals, then Hercules drops Juggernaut in this situation where his invulnerability is reduced. Thor was knocking him around, and was about to knock him out in 60 seconds.

Other than to add he's used it *maybe* once before to dispense with Spidey's webs the personal FF references are few and far between.

I'll agree with the above concerning the Juggy that Thor faced in the vortex though.

Okay....

Originally posted by leonidas
cool. now, since there was no visual representation of the FF when thor threw his hammer, and he never said he activated it, all you have to do is show that he DEACTIVATED it for the GB. it was up when he threw the hammer, but not up when he was GB'd? 😑

show me where he turned it off, otherwise, if he didn't, it can't be assumed he did.

Slowing his hammer down is the most accurate representation of the FF/ In his very early appearances (UXM 12-13, 32-33) his FF was just that, an energy aura he used to stop people from getting close to him or even touching him. It was a FORCE field, not a shield.

Juggernaut's invulnerability doesn't go down w/o his FF. This has been proven countless times.

To answer your question about Thor 411. His FF did exactly what it was designed to do, it slowed Thor's hammer down. It didn't protect him.

Hold on. Looking through the issue, I agree that I don't recall it being stated it was taken down, anywhere after he stated he was using it again.

Doesn't the Force Field protect him from harm even more by preventing things from reaching him?

Meaning that you could say that the God Blast, didn't even reach Marko?

rage.of.olympus....jugg's forcefield doesn't affect his invulnerability. he's just as invincible without it.

Originally posted by Starscream M
rage.of.olympus....jugg's forcefield doesn't affect his invulnerability. he's just as invincible without it.

Your point? That much is obvious.

What I'm saying is that, since it was never stated his Force Field that would mean it was on when the God Blast was used.

How it affects energy attacks is what I trying to remember. Would it simply repel the energy around him?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Hold on. Looking through the issue, I agree that I don't recall it being stated it was taken down, anywhere after he stated he was using it again.

Doesn't the Force Field protect him from harm even more by preventing things from reaching him?

Meaning that you could say that the God Blast, didn't even reach Marko?

No.