Originally posted by KillAll
Juggernaut doesnt NEED his forcefield to be invulnerable. the only time that was even hinted at, was in the thor fight 😉. it wasnt stated that juggernaut erected his forcefield when thor threw the godblast. the only 2 times i remember it being referenced were when thor threw his hammer (juggernaut didnt want to be touched) and stopped it so he could right it back to thor for the KO.the other time was when thor negated most of juggernauts magics (thor said it would negate them all, not just the force field), and i believe that near the end of the 30 seconds juggernaut was in a panic trying to bring his force field back because he had never been in a situation like that not having it when he wanted it.
but its not the source of his invulnerability 😉. its for when he doesnt want to be touched (like thors hammer, or spidermans web, or doesnt want to get wet walking through water, or a number of other things).
however, for the purposes of this thread, WHATEVER it is that makes him invulnerable, has been removed so it comes down to just strength and skill. and like thor did, hercules would beat up that version of juggernaut.
Originally posted by leonidas
however, for the purposes of this thread, WHATEVER it is that makes him invulnerable, has been removed so it comes down to just strength and skill. and like thor did, hercules would beat up that version of juggernaut.
Like I said though that brings him down to an unknown level of durability. The highest known would be imposternaut levels.
Originally posted by leonidas
sorry wei, not familiar with the term or the incarnation of the character. 😬
When he was weakened, basically during his New Excalibur run. He was getting knocked around by bank robbers using guns. Although I don't know the exact type of gun, so that may be why it knocked him back.
Originally posted by leonidas
was he still as strong as ever?
Originally posted by leonidas
however, for the purposes of this thread, WHATEVER it is that makes him invulnerable, has been removed so it comes down to just strength and skill. and like thor did, hercules would beat up that version of juggernaut.
eh, that would be the equivalent of taking away hercules strength and saying who would win.
or mjolnir from thor (he would never be able to take juggernaut then, no bfr, no magical cancelations etc..)
so sure, if you take away juggernauts invulnerability (just strength and skill in cain marko) you basically turn him into a glass jawed freak show. so he would go down 😉.
there are ways to maniuplate any character to lose in such circumstances... come on people.
Originally posted by KillAll
eh, that would be the equivalent of taking away hercules strength and saying who would win.or mjolnir from thor (he would never be able to take juggernaut then, no bfr, no magical cancelations etc..)
so sure, if you take away juggernauts invulnerability (just strength and skill in cain marko) you basically turn him into a glass jawed freak show. so he would go down 😉.
there are ways to maniuplate any character to lose in such circumstances... come on people.
he didn't seem weak against thor and no indication was given that he WAS weaker. this isn't really that hard to grasp "people". let's say his invulnerability is not linked to his strength--if it is. this is jugg's strength against herc's strength and skill h2h. people were/are saying jugg's strength>herc's strength. i don't believe that at all, so if the 2 were granted identical levels of invulnerability, i say herc would win the fight because he is stronger and more skilled. if you think jugg's is stronger and would still win the fight, show some proof, cuz herc has an awful lot of strength feats i could bring up . . . 😉
Originally posted by leonidasi agree no way is juggs stronger when he does something like this come talk to me
he didn't seem weak against thor and no indication was given that he WAS weaker. this isn't really that hard to grasp "people". let's say his invulnerability is not linked to his strength--if it is. this is jugg's strength against herc's strength and skill h2h. people were/are saying jugg's strength>herc's strength. i don't believe that at all, so if the 2 were granted identical levels of invulnerability, i say herc would win the fight because he is stronger and more skilled. if you think jugg's is stronger and would still win the fight, show some proof, cuz herc has an awful lot of strength feats i could bring up . . . 😉
Originally posted by leonidas
he didn't seem weak against thor and no indication was given that he WAS weaker. this isn't really that hard to grasp "people". let's say his invulnerability is not linked to his strength--if it is. this is jugg's strength against herc's strength and skill h2h. people were/are saying jugg's strength>herc's strength. i don't believe that at all, so if the 2 were granted identical levels of invulnerability, i say herc would win the fight because he is stronger and more skilled. if you think jugg's is stronger and would still win the fight, show some proof, cuz herc has an awful lot of strength feats i could bring up . . . 😉
Well it involves an ABC logic type deal but look at how both fared against WWH in a test of strength.
Juggs was proving to be his equal or better depending on how you want to look at some different things.
I think Herc could have done just as well maybe a little less.
All in all tho with these stipulations Herc wins on pure H2H ability.
I don't see one outright over powering the other though.
Originally posted by Newjak
Well it involves an ABC logic type deal but look at how both fared against WWH in a test of strength.Juggs was proving to be his equal or better depending on how you want to look at some different things.
I think Herc could have done just as well maybe a little less.
All in all tho with these stipulations Herc wins on pure H2H ability.
I don't see one outright over powering the other though.
ahh, a voice of reason and a true jugg's fan. i was wondering when you'd show up. 🙂
can't really use that herc/wwh "battle" since, well, herc never fought. 😬 he likely could have done as well as juggs were he po'd and really going all out. i would agree that their strength levels are close, but juggs WAS beat pretty soundly by thor without his shield and there is no evidence to suggest that he was actually weaker. meh, anyway, we agree on the outcome. let's not sweat the details. 😄
Originally posted by leonidasThanks 😛
ahh, a voice of reason and a true jugg's fan. i was wondering when you'd show up. 🙂can't really use that herc/wwh "battle" since, well, herc never fought. 😬 he likely could have done as well as juggs were he po'd and really going all out. i would agree that their strength levels are close, but juggs WAS beat pretty soundly by thor without his shield and there is no evidence to suggest that he was actually weaker. meh, anyway, we agree on the outcome. let's not sweat the details. 😄
And like I said I agreed and said I felt like Herc could have done just as well maybe a little worse at most.
As to the Thor fight you speak w/o arguing the shield inconsistencies, I could go on for a long time with that, in that same comic Cain commented on him being at least as strong as Thor and even when the depowering took place was still able to land a blow or two.
It was Thor's superior H2H that won him that fight.
But yeah let's not argue the details. 😄
Originally posted by leonidas
ahh, a voice of reason and a true jugg's fan. i was wondering when you'd show up. 🙂can't really use that herc/wwh "battle" since, well, herc never fought. 😬 he likely could have done as well as juggs were he po'd and really going all out. i would agree that their strength levels are close, but juggs WAS beat pretty soundly by thor without his shield and there is no evidence to suggest that he was actually weaker. meh, anyway, we agree on the outcome. let's not sweat the details. 😄
Strength wise no he wasn't weaker, and his durabilty was somewhat still there seeing as a normal human can't take punches from Thor without bruises or blood. I believe we already said that if you replace Herc with Thor in that issue then he wins. Cain is stronger, but he lacks h2h ability.
Originally posted by Newjak
Thanks 😛And like I said I agreed and said I felt like Herc could have done just as well maybe a little worse at most.
As to the Thor fight you speak w/o arguing the shield inconsistencies, I could go on for a long time with that, in that same comic Cain commented on him being at least as strong as Thor and even when the depowering took place was still able to land a blow or two.
It was Thor's superior H2H that won him that fight.
But yeah let's not argue the details. 😄
absolutely it was h2h skills that helped him win. strength was close. imo, herc is the stronger, but it is close, no doubt.
and wei--what makes you think jugg's is stronger? what's his best strength feat?
Originally posted by Newjak
Well it involves an ABC logic type deal but look at how both fared against WWH in a test of strength.Juggs was proving to be his equal or better depending on how you want to look at some different things.
That wasn't a test of strength.
Hulk has pulled a planet together.
Hercules has held up the Earth.
Thor held the serpent.
Juggernaut's strength feats have never gone above standard brick stuff. Throwing tanks and smashing buildings and sh*t. Strength-wise, he is not in Thor or Hulk's league. If he is; prove it.
Originally posted by Master CourtJuggernaut held Hulk against his will under water by his throat.
That wasn't a test of strength.Hulk has pulled a planet together.
Hercules has held up the Earth.
Thor held the serpent.Juggernaut's strength feats have never gone above standard brick stuff. Throwing tanks and smashing buildings and sh*t. Strength-wise, he is not in Thor or Hulk's league. If he is; prove it.
Not a strength feat. Too many variables. Durability, leverage, the fact it was a choke hold.
I'm asking for something that shows Juggernaut using nothing but strength. Has he ever one-shotted an asteroid twice the size of Earth? Or pierced the armor of a celestial with one hammer throw?
What in the history of Juggernaut actually proves he has more or equal physical strength than Thor or Hulk? Not just strength that contends with them, but is actually at least equal?
