Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Curse? Did god curse man?
Heck yes He did. I don't know how long it was before they sinned, though. Could've been 100 years for all I know.
Fun fact: Did you know that Adam and Eve were apparently "clothed in light"? That is to say, that their bodies shone bright enough with light that you couldn't see their nakedness.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Heck yes He did. I don't know how long it was before they sinned, though. Could've been 100 years for all I know.Fun fact: Did you know that Adam and Eve were apparently "clothed in light"? That is to say, that their bodies shone bright enough with light that you couldn't see their nakedness.
Why would a god of good curse humans? Isn't cursing an evil act?
So, Adam and Eve were clothed in light? Did you also know that Adam had a first wife before Eve?
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why would a god of good curse humans? Isn't cursing an evil act?So, Adam and Eve were clothed in light? Did you also know that Adam had a first wife before Eve?
From His standpoint it wasn't evil; it was justice (I assume). They did disobey their creator, after all.
You mean Lilith? Yeah, I've heard, but it doesn't come from the preserved word, though. Doesn't mean that I wont learn about it though. 👆
Originally posted by LLLLLinkyou are saying that animals from perfection as well as man?
Mosquitoes, flies, etc. are pestilence, and pestilence is because of the sin curse.This topic is actually kind of pointless, because animals were only perfect when God first created them. Anything that you see today is after the sin curse, and has fallen from perfection.
where in the bible is that stated?
Originally posted by LLLLLink
From His standpoint it wasn't evil; it was justice (I assume). They did disobey their creator, after all.You mean Lilith? Yeah, I've heard, but it doesn't come from the preserved word, though. Doesn't mean that I wont learn about it though. 👆
Preserved word? Is that another way of saying the King James Bible?
I hope you realize that we are talking about ancient stories, and not something that really happened.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Heck yes He did. I don't know how long it was before they sinned, though. Could've been 100 years for all I know.Fun fact: Did you know that Adam and Eve were apparently "clothed in light"? That is to say, that their bodies shone bright enough with light that you couldn't see their nakedness.
No I did not know that.Where did you read that?
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Heck yes He did. I don't know how long it was before they sinned, though. Could've been 100 years for all I know.Fun fact: Did you know that Adam and Eve were apparently "clothed in light"? That is to say, that their bodies shone bright enough with light that you couldn't see their nakedness.
Fun fact, did you know that Moses molested children, he liked to have sex with two or three an evening, he said it made him live longer.
Originally posted by King Castle
you are saying that animals from perfection as well as man?where in the bible is that stated?
Yes. But anyway, "perfection" is not the case anymore. Gave a verse earlier.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Preserved word? Is that another way of saying the King James Bible?I hope you realize that we are talking about ancient stories, and not something that really happened.
That's not necessarily true. Some events recorded in the Bible have been traced back in other cultures and found to be true records.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Yes. But anyway, "perfection" is not the case anymore. Gave a verse earlier.That's not necessarily true. Some events recorded in the Bible have been traced back in other cultures and found to be true records.
"true records"? There is a problem with understanding the mind of the person who wrote a story thousands of years ago. Truth and fact have not always been viewed as being the same thing. This is still true today. Let’s say a movie producer wishes to make a movie about WWII. He/she might make up a story that takes place in WWII, and then tell the story about WWII from the point of view of that story. The story is not true, but WWII did happen. A good example of this is the story of Noah. Before 8,000 years ago, the Black Sea was cut off from the Mediterranean. At about that time the land bridge between the two bodies of water opened, and the Black Sea coat line, that much lower then it is now, flooded. I believe the story of Noah is just a story, like the one about WWII. However, I believe, from the point of view, of the people who lived around the Black Sea at the time of the flood, it seemed that the world was flooding. There maybe history in the stories from the bible, but just like the book Gone With The Wind; just because it has real history in the story, does not mean it is factual.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
"true records"? There is a problem with understanding the mind of the person who wrote a story thousands of years ago. Truth and fact have not always been viewed as being the same thing. This is still true today. Let’s say a movie producer wishes to make a movie about WWII. He/she might make up a story that takes place in WWII, and then tell the story about WWII from the point of view of that story. The story is not true, but WWII did happen. A good example of this is the story of Noah. Before 8,000 years ago, the Black Sea was cut off from the Mediterranean. At about that time the land bridge between the two bodies of water opened, and the Black Sea coat line, that much lower then it is now, flooded. I believe the story of Noah is just a story, like the one about WWII. However, I believe, from the point of view, of the people who lived around the Black Sea at the time of the flood, it seemed that the world was flooding. There maybe history in the stories from the bible, but just like the book Gone With The Wind; just because it has real history in the story, does not mean it is factual.
Of course, that line of thinking leads to the "perception of reality" problem. Any event one was not present for could be misconstrued "facts". That's why we still deal with the "lunar landing" people. Then the question arises; "Is what I perceive actually reality?"
When discussion degenerate to the "perception of reality" level, that's when I find my way to a more interesting thread. 😛
Originally posted by LLLLLink
Of course, that line of thinking leads to the "perception of reality" problem. Any event one was not present for could be misconstrued "facts". That's why we still deal with the "lunar landing" people. Then the question arises; "Is what I perceive actually reality?"When discussion degenerate to the "perception of reality" level, that's when I find my way to a more interesting thread. 😛
Run away then...
Originally posted by Digi
It's always a little frustrating in this forum. I can't really reply to a lot of threads because I disagree with the premise on such a fundamental level, that I can't answer the question as it is posed. If I don't think any God made animals, then the question itself becomes moot. Insert this conundrum into a lot of similar threads and you see the problem.So if you see a flaw in the way that the world is made when you try to sync it up with religious doctrine, in any situation, consider that the religious doctrine itself might be the one in error, not the world around us.
....
As it pertains to your question, it is my opinion that humans and any other animal all conform to the laws of physics, meaning we exist within a deterministic universe and are subject to its laws. In that respect, we are no different from animals. It only appears different because we possess much higher levels of self-awareness and intelligence, and our behavior is harder to predict. While it is speculation to say at what level other animals possess a moral compass, they certainly can exhibit tendencies that approach the moral nuance that we ourselves exhibit. So God didn't make anything "wrong" (nor is there a God to make anything, imo), but behaviors make perfect sense for animals based on their cognative abilities.
I agree with you 100%. And you said it alot better than I ever could.
Originally posted by LLLLLink
You mean somehow getting raped by an animal? Well, if it's gorilla-rape, I doubt it counts as a sin unless the woman didn't cry for help or something.
Sin = A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Sin
If animals have no contract (covenant) with the Christian god, then they cannot sin.
Originally posted by King Castle
fun fact :did you know that the bible advocates incestuous relations with one's daughters
Here is a site that will give you a lot more fun facts.
did you know the bible advocates violence to ppl that are not hebrews if they do not allow you to go through their land and property nor share its resources?
even tells you when they say no to kill them all including the animals.. only keep the virgin women and animals for use..
bashing babies against rocks and whatnot..