Batman vs Rhino

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So wait a sec Batman has used nerve strikes on WW but he cant use it on Rhino? Wasnt Captain America dancing around Rhino. I also think Kraven The Hunter used a nerve strike on Rhino as well.

Rhino is too strong and too durable for Batman, on top of being fast for a brick.

Mammoth is basically DC's Rhino and he handled him pretty easily *shrugs*

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
That's kinda what him and Digi are talking about though: Batman does not have the strength needed to affect top-tiers with nerve strikes. He does it on-panel anyhow, but it falls under "Spider-Man vs. Firelord" circumstances.

Rhino is too strong and too durable for Batman, on top of being fast for a brick.

No it doesnt come under Spiderman vs Firelord its part of certain street levelers powersets to be able to do this. Basically its I Dont Like It It Didnt Happen. Edit: Its not done with strength its done with skill. Thats how Bullseye can do the things he does.

Hes not too fast either, if Cap can dance around him then so can Batman.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No it doesnt come under Spiderman vs Firelord its part of certain street levelers powersets to be able to do this.

Hes not too fast either, if Cap can dance around him then so can Batman.

I didn't say he was too fast for Batman. I said he was fast for a brick. Batman can dance around him all he wants, but that's all he's gonna be able to accomplish. Meanwhile, Rhino just needs to tag him once.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
No, it doesn't necessarily work that way, and it is an example of SMvsFL. Nerve strikes work against other street levelers just fine, and even a few metas... but as the opponent's durability rises, so too must the striker's power in order to remain effective.

Yes I understand that I just dont agree with your logic. Its not SMvsFL if its part of their powerset is it? If Cyclops managed to destory a sentinel with an optic blast does that come under SMvsFL, of course not because we know hes capable of doing it. If street levelers have shown that they can do it consistently enough then its not SMvsFL its part of their powerset

How does Bullseye manage to almost KO opponents with a paper aeroplane? How does Bulllseye manage to make a paper aeroplane go through a glass window?

edit: The SMvsFL isnt there anymore actually (not saying it doesnt apply though) but it stated if a character done something consistently than its allowed eg Batman sneaking up on Superman.

Heres what was said orginally.

No SvFL

Spiderman vs. Firelord, or SvFL, is a shorthand that refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character's overall established career, as well as the character's opponents' established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character's established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers.
For standard debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama's run of Batman and Grell's run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Yes I understand that I just dont agree with your logic. Its not SMvsFL if its part of their powerset is it? If Cyclops managed to destory a sentinel with an optic blast does that come under SMvsFL, of course not because we know hes capable of doing it. If street levelers have shown that they can do it consistently enough then its not SMvsFL its part of their powerset

How does Bullseye manage to almost KO opponents with a paper aeroplane? How does Bulllseye manage to make a paper aeroplane go through a glass window?

edit: The SMvsFL isnt there anymore actually (not saying it doesnt apply though) but it stated if a character done something consistently than its allowed eg Batman sneaking up on Superman.

Difference is, Cyclops can generate enough force into his optic blast to destroy a Sentinel. A street-leveler cannot generate enough force to bypass a brick's durability without chi-amping. It's happened a few times, but I wouldn't say it's nearly consistent enough to take as fact.

I don't agree with your "skills = powerset" stance, unless it's specified for each individual character, such as Karate Kid, Bullseye, Karnak, and Iron Fist... and even some of them have failed to put down bricks in spite of their skills and powers.

Batman sneaking up on Superman is bullshit too. Superman can hear a faint cry for help halfway across the world but he can't hear Batman sneaking up on him? Yeah, it's been shown, but it flat-out ignores Superman's own capabilities... much like street-leveler nerve strikes ignore bricks' durability. That point is moot anyhow, because Superman has already said on-panel that he's always been able to hear Batman trying to sneak up on him. Retcon, yeah... but it pretty much voids any instances of such in the past.

Batman sneak up Supes is pure PIS Supes can hear heartbeats of people he detects Mongul by this in a comic so:

1. a step is ALWAYS louder than a heartbeat

2. Batman also got a heart that beats...

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Difference is, Cyclops can generate enough force into his optic blast to destroy a Sentinel. A street-leveler cannot generate enough force to bypass a brick's durability without chi-amping. It's happened a few times, but I wouldn't say it's nearly consistent enough to take as fact.

Nah man is has loads of times.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

I don't agree with your "skills = powerset" stance, unless it's specified for each individual character, such as Karate Kid, Bullseye, Karnak, and Iron Fist... and even some of them have failed to put down bricks in spite of their skills and powers.

Just because people dont always succeed doesnt mean ist not part of their powerset. You didnt really respond to what I said really, according to your logic Bullseye shouldnt be able to Ko a person with a paper aeroplane or shatter glass with it.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Batman sneaking up on Superman is bullshit too. Superman can hear a faint cry for help halfway across the world but he can't hear Batman sneaking up on him? Yeah, it's been shown, but it flat-out ignores Superman's own capabilities... much like street-leveler nerve strikes ignore bricks' durability. That point is moot anyhow, because Superman has already said on-panel that he's always been able to hear Batman trying to sneak up on him. Retcon, yeah... but it pretty much voids any instances of such in the past.

Anyway the rules say that consistency is part of whats accepted even if it was retconned.

Ok so lets see if I can get this straight.

1. If its in a comic its PIS.
2. If its part of the forum rules its bullshit.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Batman sneak up Supes is pure PIS Supes can hear heartbeats of people he detects Mongul by this in a comic so:

1. a step is ALWAYS louder than a heartbeat

2. Batman also got a heart that beats...

mate its a comicbook that logic doesnt always apply. Hell somebody on herochat is arguing that you can jump faster than you can run. Comics contradict it.

WTF batman haters you honostley think batman cant beat the biggest loser in marvel screw u guys

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Nah man is has loads of times.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Just because people dont always succeed doesnt mean ist not part of their powerset. You didnt really respond to what I said really, according to your logic Bullseye shouldnt be able to Ko a person with a paper aeroplane or shatter glass with it.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Anyway the rules say that consistency is part of whats accepted even if it was retconned.

Ok so lets see if I can get this straight.

1. If its in a comic its PIS.
2. If its part of the forum rules its bullshit.

Just because it happened on-panel doesn't mean it's absolute and unquestionable. Captain America using pressure points on Hulk, Luke Cage punching out Doom, Spider-Man knocking out Firelord, Misty Knight bitchslapping Rhino, Batman harming the Spectre, Black Panther armbarring Surfer.... all examples of PIS.

Quoting Digi in the Forum Rules thread:
"No Mentioning Events of PIS... Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman."

Superman not hearing Batman trying to sneak up on him would fall under PIS according to forum rules. So yeah, that's about right.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Loads of times, but if one looked hard enough, one would find just as many examples of street-level nerve strikes being ineffective on bricks as one would of them being effective... maybe even more. For something to be consistent, it has to have a clear majority of showings. That just isn't the case.

No not really, pretty much consistent for Cap. Very consistent for Karate Kid.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Bullseye's throwing ability defies physics, but his is the ability to hit something with perfect accuracy and with sufficient force; thus, anything he throws is a weapon. It doesn't really make sense, but that is his specified ability.

Exactly hurting and stunning bricks defies physics as well.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Just because it happened on-panel doesn't mean it's absolute and unquestionable. Captain America using pressure points on Hulk, Luke Cage punching out Doom, Spider-Man knocking out Firelord, Misty Knight bitchslapping Rhino, Batman harming the Spectre, Black Panther armbarring Surfer.... all examples of PIS.

First of all some of those characters havent done it consistently enough, Cap has. There were circumstances for Batman hurting Spectre so it doesnt apply.

Once again Cap has consistently hurt and stunned bricks on a regular basis.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Quoting Digi in the Forum Rules thread:
"No Mentioning Events of PIS... Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman."

Superman not hearing Batman trying to sneak up on him would fall under PIS according to forum rules. So yeah, that's about right.

So lets see if I can get this straight. I just pointed out to you according to forum rules that Batman sneaking up on Superman is acceptable according to forum rules ( I also explained why it was acceptable due to forum rules consistency), and now you're telling me it isn't?

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
No not really, pretty much consistent for Cap. Very consistent for Karate Kid.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
Exactly hurting and stunning bricks defies physics as well.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
First of all some of those characters havent done it consistently enough, Cap has. There were circumstances for Batman hurting Spectre so it doesnt apply.

Once again Cap has consistently hurt and stunned bricks on a regular basis.

Unless all or most street-levelers with similiar strength and skills can duplicate these feats, then it is that much more absurd for only a handful of (popular) streets to be able to do so regularly or even at all.

Originally posted by Phantom Zone
So lets see if I can get this straight. I just pointed out to you according to forum rules that Batman sneaking up on Superman is acceptable according to forum rules ( I also explained why it was acceptable due to forum rules consistency), and now you're telling me it isn't?

Where exactly in the forum rules does it say what you've quoted earlier? I took a quick glance, but didn't see it. If it's not there, maybe it was removed for a reason..... like, it's illogical for Superman not to hear Batman sneaking up on him, for example.

Batman's attacks should not register on the Rhino.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Karate Kid has "superkarate" from the future that can't be explained. He can also chi-amp, if I remember correctly. Cap has the Jobber aura.

Prove it. You said that there are lots of examples that Cap isn't able to do this consistently enough. So feel free to list the examples of him not being able to stun and hurt bricks.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Not with enough force, heat, energy, etc... You know, the kind street-levelers usually lack.

Sorry mate you missed the point entirely. Bullseyes skills defies physics, so does Caps. You're basically picking and choosing what you like and contradicting yourself.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Unless all or most street-levelers with similiar strength and skills can duplicate these feats, then it is that much more absurd for only a handful of (popular) streets to be able to do so regularly or even at all.
.

You think that maybe that some people are more skilled than others possibly?

Originally posted by Eternal Idol

Where exactly in the forum rules does it say what you've quoted earlier? I took a quick glance, but didn't see it. If it's not there, maybe it was removed for a reason..... like, it's illogical for Superman not to hear Batman sneaking up on him, for example.

Batman's attacks should not register on the Rhino.

Hey you quoted SMvFL not me, im simply showing you what it said. Anyway it was removed because they wanted the rules pruned not because it didn't apply.

Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Karate Kid has "superkarate" from the future that can't be explained. He can also chi-amp, if I remember correctly. Cap has the Jobber aura.

Not with enough force, heat, energy, etc... You know, the kind street-levelers usually lack.

Unless all or most street-levelers with similiar strength and skills can duplicate these feats, then it is that much more absurd for only a handful of (popular) streets to be able to do so regularly or even at all.

Where exactly in the forum rules does it say what you've quoted earlier? I took a quick glance, but didn't see it. If it's not there, maybe it was removed for a reason..... like, it's illogical for Superman not to hear Batman sneaking up on him, for example.

Batman's attacks should not register on the Rhino.

Your Batman hate is funny. 🙂

Originally posted by grimify
Your Batman hate is funny. 🙂

exactly black cat hurts the rhino and batman cant you all have no logic

Originally posted by grimify
Your Batman hate is funny. 🙂

I liked your post better before you edited it.

rhino feels that bat-bitchslap he's done

Originally posted by batdude123
I liked your post better before you edited it.

I didn't feel like getting into an argument. 😛

Batman can win at least a few with some gas, bombs, etc. A batarang to the eyes could definitely swing things in his favor.

should a street leveler be able to ko or hurt bricks no. but they do. should people be able to fly, run ftl, turn invisable etc. no but they do. so to argue that even though bats or others do it consistantly it shouldnt count because it defys physics or something like that. should bats be able to hurt a high level brick no but he has so he has the powa to do so. should a person after being in a gamma explosion live and get super powers no. but it happend. it just is what it is, fictional stories where somethings dont make sense but thats how it is. serioulsy is bats sneaking up on supes much more unbelievable than a baby from another planet landing here, absorbing our sunlight and getting super powers?