Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
I think the main argument you can give against the quotes supporting Sidious is that those are referring to him at the peak of his power AND whether or not it is specifically referring to his abilities in a duel. I tend to think that many of the quotes they give do not directly refer to fighting ability. Instead, power might be the fact that he controlled both sides of the Clone Wars. That leaves things much more open for discussion and makes more sense to me.
DarthBaneLives
well i mean the back cover of DoE that i'm looking at states "If the dark side's most powerful master capture the ultimate secret, the sith will never die-and neither will darth bane. that's just one example. as far as others, i don't remember exactly where all these quotes are.
Yeah his essay does say alot, but i still think in a FIGHT, bane would win.
if they sat down and saw who was smarter or better at political machinations, yeah sidious would probably win, but in a straight up fight, i couldn't see old man palps coming out alive.
Originally posted by Lightsnakenoobaris is a troll. you are feeding him. stop.
Oh, look, it's the usual "LALALALALA POLITICAL POWER" stuff you're so fond of when you're in denial. Despite how most of them expressly refer to force ability and it's almost never referred to in another way with force users.DarthBaneLives
Well, find them. One referring to ALL TIME, not present tense. And when are back covers canon info anyways?
Prove it.
I don't care what a Bane fanboy thinks or sees. Back it up."OMG ORBALISKS" is basically all you've provided.
haha feeding me? it seems that i'm feeding him...i'm just stating that i think bane would win in a fight and no one can prove that he wouldn't really...not a big deal. i'm far from a Bane fanboy though....he's not even my favorite sith. Orbalisks are great though, i'd love to see them in a game or something as like an unlockable armor. anybody got any ideas on what they are gonna announce at the Vga's on dec 12th? just curious
DBL, we have a notorious member who supports bane utterly to the death, name of neb. I think One Free Guy thought you were him.
I see what you are saying, but are you familiar with the fact that Sidious managed to reduce the ability of 10,000 jedi to draw on the force? (per ROTS, and one of the Ultimate guides.)
A feat more impressive and on a scale larger than anything bane ever accomplished, imo.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
Oh, look, it's the usual "LALALALALA POLITICAL POWER" stuff you're so fond of when you're in denial. Despite how most of them expressly refer to force ability and it's almost never referred to in another way with force users.
The reason I think it refers to his all around power is because he is the only who relied more on other areas to accomplish his goals. He wasn't combat oriented. He was still extremely capable and I will say that he was probably the most powerful (including combat) Force user ever (Luke being the only possible exception) by Dark Empire. As of ROTS, I don't think that he is the best Sith in a fight. He simply hasn't demonstrated the extreme abilities that would give him that mantle.
Originally posted by Darth_GlentractFighting one of the most powerful Jedi in history to a standstill doesn't say much, huh?
The reason I think it refers to his all around power is because he is the only who relied more on other areas to accomplish his goals. He wasn't combat oriented. He was still extremely capable and I will say that he was probably the most powerful (including combat) Force user ever (Luke being the only possible exception) by Dark Empire. As of ROTS, I don't think that he is the best Sith in a fight. He simply hasn't demonstrated the extreme abilities that would give him that mantle.
Originally posted by darthbanelives
haha feeding me? it seems that i'm feeding him...i'm just stating that i think bane would win in a fight and no one can prove that he wouldn't really...not a big deal. i'm far from a Bane fanboy though....he's not even my favorite sith. Orbalisks are great though, i'd love to see them in a game or something as like an unlockable armor. anybody got any ideas on what they are gonna announce at the Vga's on dec 12th? just curious
Nobody has to prove he WOULDN'T, you need to prove he was. And the orbaliasks? Not invincible with the dark side and don't cover his head.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
The reason I think it refers to his all around power is because he is the only who relied more on other areas to accomplish his goals. He wasn't combat oriented. He was still extremely capable and I will say that he was probably the most powerful (including combat) Force user ever (Luke being the only possible exception) by Dark Empire. As of ROTS, I don't think that he is the best Sith in a fight. He simply hasn't demonstrated the extreme abilities that would give him that mantle.
You 'think' it referred to others? Based on what, precisely? And he wasn't combat oriented? Yet he managed to take out three of the best swordsmen who ever lived before they could do anything? He's called the most powerful as of ROTS several times and you need to get off the inane idea this refers to 'political' power when he was not only ruling LESS than some other Sith Lords by that point as the Empire hadn't yet grown to its fullest extent, but somehow this 'political' thing seems to merely apply to Palpatine and never when Kun, Ragnos or Bane's powers are mentioned? It's an annoying double standard
And taking on the most powerful Jedi ever doesn't give him skills? Killing three of the most talented swordsmen in Jedi history instantly? Being unable to be remotely perceived by Darth Maul of all people?
Originally posted by Lightsnake
You 'think' it referred to others? Based on what, precisely?
On exactly what I just said. He relied much more on political power to accomplish his goals that other Sith.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And he wasn't combat oriented? Yet he managed to take out three of the best swordsmen who ever lived before they could do anything?
We are already talking about the best of the best. Those "three of the best" he killed are still dramatically weaker than top level people. Also, I never said he was bad at combat, it's just inferior to his political skills.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
He's called the most powerful as of ROTS several times and you need to get off the inane idea this refers to 'political' power when he was not only ruling LESS than some other Sith Lords by that point as the Empire hadn't yet grown to its fullest extent, but somehow this 'political' thing seems to merely apply to Palpatine and never when Kun, Ragnos or Bane's powers are mentioned? It's an annoying double standard
He controlled both the CIS and the Republic. WTF do you mean he was ruling less than other Sith Lords? Even the Empire at its smallest under his rule was still far bigger than the previous Sith Empires.
Kun, Ragnos, and Bane were not crafty like Sidious. That wasn't their game. You know me, I don't take outside quotes with much merit anyway. I've said for the longest time that we need to look at feats first and foremost, with in-universe quotes being very important as well. What an out of universe person might have said doesn't change what is actually portrayed in the books, comics, movies, etc so should have no higher authority than fan generated consensus.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And taking on the most powerful Jedi ever doesn't give him skills? Killing three of the most talented swordsmen in Jedi history instantly? Being unable to be remotely perceived by Darth Maul of all people?
I'm not saying that he wasn't extremely capable at fighting. I will also challenge you claim that Yoda was the most powerful Jedi ever (Luke). I will say Yoda is the second most powerful, but the Sith have shown that they are more powerful on a one-on-one basis than Jedi so even if Sidious equals the second most powerful Jedi there are still other Sith who might be more powerful than him at that point.
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
On exactly what I just said. He relied much more on political power to accomplish his goals that other Sith.
We are already talking about the best of the best. Those "three of the best" he killed are still dramatically weaker than top level people. Also, I never said he was bad at combat, it's just inferior to his political skills.
He controlled both the CIS and the Republic. WTF do you mean he was ruling less than other Sith Lords? Even the Empire at its smallest under his rule was still far bigger than the previous Sith Empires.
Kun, Ragnos, and Bane were not crafty like Sidious. That wasn't their game. You know me, I don't take outside quotes with much merit anyway. I've said for the longest time that we need to look at feats first and foremost, with in-universe quotes being very important as well. What an out of universe person might have said doesn't change what is actually portrayed in the books, comics, movies, etc so should have no higher authority than fan generated consensus.
I'm not saying that he wasn't extremely capable at fighting. I will also challenge you claim that Yoda was the most powerful Jedi ever (Luke). I will say Yoda is the second most powerful, but the Sith have shown that they are more powerful on a one-on-one basis than Jedi so even if Sidious equals the second most powerful Jedi there are still other Sith who might be more powerful than him at that point.
Palpatine's already named almost expressly stronger than Bane by TPM...by ROTs, he's referred to consistently as the strongest.