Uchiha Sasuke

Originally posted by EvilAngel
I think you're under estimating how easily people can be convinced. But at any rate i don't think you're taking everything into account here.

First of all, the whole concept of peace was something he asked Jiriaya a long time ago. And from the answer Jiraiya gave are the foundations of what he sought to do to achieve peace. When the blonde kid (forgot his name) died his path to achieve it become ..... disturbed.

After meeting Naruto who broke out of the Kyuubi's power through force of will power, he was impressed. Also that Naruto didn't kill him, which if you consider, is kind of a big deal after everything pain did. After hearing the Naruto is on the same path he had been on, and realises Naruto is so much more determined than he his, realising he's severely wounded anyway, he put the last of his faith in Naruto. Or something liek that.

Raikage is a wannabe badass. he's just a moody shit if you ask me.

He asked Jiraiya when he was but a child, still innocent. Pain was not born a mass murderer, he became one based on a warped idealogy which he clung to for years after developing it, and murdered many to achieve it.

A single boy with will is able to convince said genocidal maniac to go against an idealogy he created years ago, one which has only been continually strengthened? Although I will buy the severely wounded and putting his faith in Naruto anyway, never thought of that. But regardless, Naruto is retardedly optimistic.

Um, what? He cut off his arm without so much as batting an eye, and this was after it was on fire from Amaterasu. He is not a wannabe badass, he IS a badass. As for him being a moody shit...You're a Sasuke fan. 😐 Sasuke wants to kill everyone in Konoha for something three people were responsible for, Sasuke has been moody since the beginning of the series. Raikage is "moody," because for all he knows his younger brother is dead, of course he is going to have a short fuse.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Pain was a delusional extremist, saying he should be easy to convince would be similar to saying Hitler for instance could have been easily convinced.

He asked Jiraiya when he was but a child, still innocent. Pain was not born a mass murderer, he became one based on a warped idealogy which he clung to for years after developing it, and murdered many to achieve it.

A single boy with will is able to convince said genocidal maniac to go against an idealogy he created years ago, one which has only been continually strengthened? Although I will buy the severely wounded and putting his faith in Naruto anyway, never thought of that. But regardless, Naruto is retardedly optimistic.

Um, what? He cut off his arm without so much as batting an eye, and this was after it was on fire from Amaterasu. He is not a wannabe badass, he IS a badass. As for him being a moody shit...You're a Sasuke fan. 😐 Sasuke wants to kill everyone in Konoha for something three people were responsible for, Sasuke has been moody since the beginning of the series. Raikage is "moody," because for all he knows his younger brother is dead, of course he is going to have a short fuse.

Well guess you have your way of seeing it and i have mine. I'm not syaing it makes sense, but i think it makes allot more sense than how much it seems to make to you, if that makes sense at all as a sentence.

IMO ever since Yahiko (was that his name?) died Nagato was unsure of what he should do and instead took the only path he knew that was left. One carved through fear, the fear he knew when he was a child. So when Naruto came and offered a solution where no one died, and no one lived in fear, he felt sure that is what his friend would have done. As i say; or something like that.

Sasuke doesn't punch holes in tables because an arguement isn't gonig his way....

Sasuke's just.... traumatized, i mean, Itachi used the MS on him showing his whole family being butchered over and over for 72 hours when he was 5 ;p To find out Itachi did that on orders etc.... yeah i can't say i think anyone should be surprised ;p

The thing was, Sasuke was actually pretty decent for most of part one, he cared about his teammates, he seemed intelligent, I could see why he was popular... then after he started realizing Naruto was getting stronger than him he got all retarded and since then has done nothing but select retarded vendettas to fight for, when the whole thing should have gotten cleared up after Itachi died, or MAYBE going after Danzo next. But no, he immediately jumps to "I must DESTROY Konoha!"

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
~ How the heck does his hair stay in that shape after all that? He probably uses chakra to keep it like that 😆

😆 😆 😆

He uses an AWESOME hair gel. 😄

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Plus it's been known through the entire series Naruto has a passive Change mind-no jutsu, so it's not like it was all THAT surprising

Yup. This is correct. I called it before their fight even started, in the Naruto thread. So did a few other people. It wasn't a shock and was almost fully expected to happen.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
I think you're under estimating how easily people can be convinced. But at any rate i don't think you're taking everything into account here.

First of all, the whole concept of peace was something he asked Jiriaya a long time ago. And from the answer Jiraiya gave are the foundations of what he sought to do to achieve peace. When the blonde kid (forgot his name) died his path to achieve it become ..... disturbed.

After meeting Naruto who broke out of the Kyuubi's power through force of will power, he was impressed. Also that Naruto didn't kill him, which if you consider, is kind of a big deal after everything pain did. After hearing the Naruto is on the same path he had been on, and realises Naruto is so much more determined than he his, realising he's severely wounded anyway, he put the last of his faith in Naruto. Or something liek that.

Raikage is a wannabe badass. he's just a moody shit if you ask me.

You're awesome. And if you're gender is female, that's...just.....awesome. As you probably know, this is a forum heavily dominated by males. And ladies rarely actually make an effort to debate as well as you just did. (I don't really know why, that's just the way it is on forums.)

Originally posted by Quincy
You guys can tear up the story and rag on Kishi and all that but just face it - you're straight up fans of this manga. And will keep reading it until the end.

You're correct. I tend to disregard people when they post many posts about each chapter, and then say they don't like it or that they are going to stop reading it. Yeah right. You guys love it and you know it. 😐

I have never said I was going to stop reading it, for the record.

But I'm not afraid to point out its flaws, Naruto "convincing" Pain, was just not believable, at least not the way it was written.

Originally posted by NemeBro
I have never said I was going to stop reading it, for the record.

But I'm not afraid to point out its flaws, Naruto "convincing" Pain, was just not believable, at least not the way it was written.

Agreed. I wanted Naruto to be forced to kill him

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Well guess you have your way of seeing it and i have mine. I'm not syaing it makes sense, but i think it makes allot more sense than how much it seems to make to you, if that makes sense at all as a sentence.

IMO ever since Yahiko (was that his name?) died Nagato was unsure of what he should do and instead took the only path he knew that was left. One carved through fear, the fear he knew when he was a child. So when Naruto came and offered a solution where no one died, and no one lived in fear, he felt sure that is what his friend would have done. As i say; or something like that.

Sasuke doesn't punch holes in tables because an arguement isn't gonig his way....

Sasuke's just.... traumatized, i mean, Itachi used the MS on him showing his whole family being butchered over and over for 72 hours when he was 5 ;p To find out Itachi did that on orders etc.... yeah i can't say i think anyone should be surprised ;p

That may have been how it was at first, sure, but after like, what? Ten, twenty years or so, his mind was made up, his ideals were concrete. I do not think I worded my opinion on the event as well as I could have. My problem is HOW he was convinced, not that he was convinced.

He punched a hole in a table because they were wasting time with their political crap while his brother was missing...

Should I be surprised he wants to kill Danzo and the Elders? Of course not. But to butcher all of Konoha in some wangsty rampage of misguided revenge, which is only dragging everything his brother worked for through the mud? Dude naw.

Well I personally dont like Raikage either. I mean I understand if he was angry but he's supposed to be a kage, that means keeping your cool even under these circumstances. I think he's just a hot head and doesn't deserve the title of Raikage. Also, it's like he was forcing Konoha to give him information on Sasuke otherwise he would start a war with Konoha (which I wouldn't doubt if he did)

Originally posted by NemeBro
Should I be surprised he wants to kill Danzo and the Elders? Of course not. But to butcher all of Konoha in some wangsty rampage of misguided revenge, which is only dragging everything his brother worked for through the mud? Dude naw.

I could have sworn Sasuke was just going after the elders, and not the whole village? To me, that's logical.

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
Well I personally dont like Raikage either. I mean I understand if he was angry but he's supposed to be a kage, that means keeping your cool even under these circumstances. I think he's just a hot head and doesn't deserve the title of Raikage. Also, it's like he was forcing Konoha to give him information on Sasuke otherwise he would start a war with Konoha (which I wouldn't doubt if he did)

Well, a "kage", as far as I'm aware, is supposed to be the one best able to protect the village with a side of political clout. Meaning, first the ability to protect the village the best, and the other stuff is secondary.

That's what I thought it was supposed to be, at least. If that's the case, then that's what the Raikage does best. And, if you're not an idiot and work well with the Raikage, he appears to be logical. If Konoha would have killed Sasuke as soon as he went missing, Raikage would have respected that. That's what the villages are SUPPOSED to do.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I could have sworn Sasuke was just going after the elders, and not the whole village? To me, that's logical.

Well, a "kage", as far as I'm aware, is supposed to be the one best able to protect the village with a side of political clout. Meaning, first the ability to protect the village the best, and the other stuff is secondary.

That's what I thought it was supposed to be, at least. If that's the case, then that's what the Raikage does best. And, if you're not an idiot and work well with the Raikage, he appears to be logical. If Konoha would have killed Sasuke as soon as he went missing, Raikage would have respected that. That's what the villages are SUPPOSED to do.

Originally posted by dadudemon
I could have sworn Sasuke was just going after the elders, and not the whole village? To me, that's logical.

Well, a "kage", as far as I'm aware, is supposed to be the one best able to protect the village with a side of political clout. Meaning, first the ability to protect the village the best, and the other stuff is secondary.

That's what I thought it was supposed to be, at least. If that's the case, then that's what the Raikage does best. And, if you're not an idiot and work well with the Raikage, he appears to be logical. If Konoha would have killed Sasuke as soon as he went missing, Raikage would have respected that. That's what the villages are SUPPOSED to do.

2. Holy shit you and I actually agree!? 😐

Indeed, Naruto is butthurt about how after nearly three years Konoha has labeled Sasuke a missing-nin to be executed...When that is what should have happened to start with.

Raikage is the strongest fighter in his country (Along with his bro), that is the main qualification for being a Kage, power to defend your village.

Originally posted by NemeBro
[B]1. His plans are to destroy all of Konoha, unless that changed and I forgot.

he told his team that he was only going to kill the elders, then later told tobi that he was going to kill everyone and only said he would kill only the elders to keep his team calm or something like that.

Ah, thanks for that.

Helps my point, going on a wangsty rampage.

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
I know that they're supposed to protect the village but when the 3rd hokage died they were considering Hatake Kakashi. I know he's strong but he's nowhere near kage level (though maybe if he trained more I could see him being that strong)

No, Kakashi is near Kage level.

You think Tsunade could win in a fight against Kakashi?

Kakashi is one of the strongest Jounin in all of Naruto. I'd say he's closer to Kage level than Jounin level.

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
And hell, they have Danzo as hokage now. I mean I dont doubt that he's strong but how strong is he really?

From what Nemebro said, Danzo took out like...what? 10 Jounin level assasins? That's.....retarded strong, don't you think?

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
I think he's probably going to be the weakest of all the hokage.

I agree, sort of. Tsunade is probably physically the strongest, but she would mos def lose in a 1 on 1 fight with Danzo, fo sho.

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
Also, I dont agree with the fact that protecting comes before everything else. as being Kage.

No, that's really the fundemental role of the Kage. Seriously.

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
The Kage deal with financial issues as well and if they didn't do that then the village would be in poverty.

SOME of the financial issues. You forget that there's a whole council. I'd say they do approval, for the most part. Konoha survived how long before they got a new Hokage? Several weeks? Months? They had to go get Tsunade, and that took at least a week once they found her.

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
The I know you can say "well other people can deal with that work" but considering that other village ninja can also protect the village.

They can and did deal with that work when the 3rd bit the dust. And, part of Kage is sending ninja to their death…to….protect the village. 😄

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
It's not solely the kages responsibility but also the responsibility of all the village ninja.

I don’t understand your point. No one ever said that wasn’t true. It’s just that, the Kage is the epitome of the “protect the village” philosophy. Remember that conversation Shiki had with Asuma about the Hokage? Remember the thing about the king? That simile really sums up what I’m trying to tell you.

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
So, the two issues are as important. I mean that like only elected a President of a country based on his military knowledge. If that's the case that means anybody could become President.

You do know that these villages are …gaspity, military villages, right?

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
Dont get me wrong, Raikage is very strong but I dont think he's cut out to be kage (especially if he needs other people to be nice to him to make logical decisions. I mean that's what this whole meeting is about right? Making good decisions in the form of uniting all the villages. Physical strength has nothing to do with good decision making)

I agree. However, that’s not the primary prerequisite to being a Kage, from what we can see. Why else would he be the Raikage?

http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/416/14/

there we go!

Originally posted by NemeBro
1. His plans are to destroy all of Konoha, unless that changed and I forgot.

Yeah, something like that. He said both, but I think he said something about all of konha?

Scans, por favor.

Edit - Cool, thanks Ms. Marvel.

Originally posted by NemeBro
2. Holy shit you and I actually agree!? 😐

Indeed, Naruto is butthurt about how after nearly three years Konoha has labeled Sasuke a missing-nin to be executed...When that is what should have happened to start with.

Raikage is the strongest fighter in his country (Along with his bro), that is the main qualification for being a Kage, power to defend your village.

Nah, we agree on lots of things.

Jiraiya was probably the strongest, which is why he was chosen first.

I would rank him in the top 5 ninjas.

Here's my ranking:

1. Pain.

2. Madara.

3. Jiraiya.

4. Raikage.

5. Itachi.

6. Killer Bee.

7. Sasuke.

8. Naruto.

You can move Naruto higher because he killed Hanzo and the three Sanin, together, could not. Naruto also got further against Pain's bodies than Jiraiya. Naruto also was "the first to overcome" that body control technique against pain while standing right next to him.

Raikage would be toast against someone like Itachi, if Itachi was going all out and was healthy. Killer Bee as well.

Madara should get his butt handed to him by Pain. All Pain has to do is control Madara's body. Can Madara super amp himself up into a Raikage or Sage mode type of state? I don't think so. I would say, with ease, that the Raikage can amp his strength high enough to resist Pain's body control technique, as well. Agreed?

Sasuke is above Naruto for practical reasons. However, no matter what, any subsequent fight of Naruto versus Sasuke will end up with Naruto winning. Go figure. The rasenshuriken has more cutting power than any technique in all of Naruto. It was cutting off several mountain peaks with no sign of slowing down before Naruto "fully" perfected it. I'd say, without a problem, that the Rasenshuriken could cut right through the Raikage, even though wind is weak against lightening.

Edit - My list is VERY debatable.

Originally posted by dadudemon
😆 😆 😆

He uses an AWESOME hair gel. 😄

DBZ-style gel no? Srsly, anime characters manage to keep the same hair-style for a lot of time. I think Bulma's hair changing made fun of that fact.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yup. This is correct. I called it before their fight even started, in the Naruto thread. So did a few other people. It wasn't a shock and was almost fully expected to happen.

It's his strongest ability, kinda stupid, but you gotta admire the determination of the dude.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You're awesome. And if you're gender is female, that's...just.....awesome. As you probably know, this is a forum heavily dominated by males. And ladies rarely actually make an effort to debate as well as you just did. (I don't really know why, that's just the way it is on forums.)

Don't you have a wife 😛?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Yeah, something like that. He said both, but I think he said something about all of konha?

He could have known that Madara wanted to take out Konoha, so he could have deliberately lied to Madara to make Madara think that Sasuke was being manipulated by him. At least, I hope that is the case. Going after the innocent is pathetic, especially considering Sasuke wouldn't harm the innocent at one point.

Originally posted by dadudemon
You can move Naruto higher because he killed Hanzo and the three Sanin, together, could not. Naruto also got further against Pain's bodies than Jiraiya. Naruto also was "the first to overcome" that body control technique against pain while standing right next to him.

Naruto killed Hanzo? I thought Nagato did that.

Without the transformation into the 8-tails, KB is below current Sasuke (even though he spams techniques) imo.

He was the first to pwn Sasuke twice or thrice, so he's MOAR kick-ass than his brother.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Raikage would be toast against someone like Itachi, if Itachi was going all out and was healthy. Killer Bee as well.

Why'd you put Raikage above Itachi then >__>?

Jiraiya could lose against an all-out+healthy Itachi as well. Itachi was perhaps weak when he came back to Konoha. Also, he never wanted to engage in a confrontation, he came back for Sasuke's safety. Finally, Itachi wouldn't truly fight someone so 'patriotic' towards the Leaf village, unless he were pissed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Madara should get his butt handed to him by Pain. All Pain has to do is control Madara's body. Can Madara super amp himself up into a Raikage or Sage mode type of state? I don't think so. I would say, with ease, that the Raikage can amp his strength high enough to resist Pain's body control technique, as well. Agreed?

Current Madara would probably get stomped imo. The Madara that could control the Kyuubi would beat Pain.

Also, I don't think his strength will help him. His speed definitely would. He's probably so fast that Deva cannot use Shinra Tensei or the other gravity jutsu (not Chibaku, the other one)

Originally posted by dadudemon
Sasuke is above Naruto for practical reasons. However, no matter what, any subsequent fight of Naruto versus Sasuke will end up with Naruto winning. Go figure. The rasenshuriken has more cutting power than any technique in all of Naruto. It was cutting off several mountain peaks with no sign of slowing down before Naruto "fully" perfected it. I'd say, without a problem, that the Rasenshuriken could cut right through the Raikage, even though wind is weak against lightening.

At 8-tails, Naruto is pretty much above everyone 😬. Though that is perhaps a state between Naruto & the Kyuubi, it's not Naruto (mentally), & it's not the Kyuubi either.

Current Naruto is below the spam-tastic MS wielding Sasuke though.

Uhh, dude, Wind is weak to fire, it's strong against Lightning.

Originally posted by dadudemon
No, Kakashi is near Kage level.

You think Tsunade could win in a fight against Kakashi?

Kakashi is one of the strongest Jounin in all of Naruto. I'd say he's closer to Kage level than Jounin level.

From what Nemebro said, Danzo took out like...what? 10 Jounin level assasins? That's.....retarded strong, don't you think?

I agree, sort of. Tsunade is probably physically the strongest, but she would mos def lose in a 1 on 1 fight with Danzo, fo sho.

No, that's really the fundemental role of the Kage. Seriously.

SOME of the financial issues. You forget that there's a whole council. I'd say they do approval, for the most part. Konoha survived how long before they got a new Hokage? Several weeks? Months? They had to go get Tsunade, and that took at least a week once they found her.

They can and did deal with that work when the 3rd bit the dust. And, part of Kage is sending ninja to their death…to….protect the village. 😄

I don’t understand your point. No one ever said that wasn’t true. It’s just that, the Kage is the epitome of the “protect the village” philosophy. Remember that conversation Shiki had with Asuma about the Hokage? Remember the thing about the king? That simile really sums up what I’m trying to tell you.

You do know that these villages are …gaspity, military villages, right?

I agree. However, that’s not the primary prerequisite to being a Kage, from what we can see. Why else would he be the Raikage?

Well I dont really see Tsunade as kage level either

And as for the Danzo thing I thought they were all Chunnin that he killed (though I could be wrong. And if they were at the beginning of the series Sasuke took two Mist chunnin and won. I mean Kakashi finished them but Sasuke could have done it)

Ok and I guess Kakashi is close to Kage level in terms of actual ability. However, he doesn't have a lot of chakra and if he's dealing with Kage level opponents (like Akatsuki for example) he has to use sharingan which will wear him down way quicker.

And I know the Kage have a counsil but they're still Kage and they still have actual responsibilites as a Kage besides protecting the village. And yes, I also realize that they're the main guys to protect the village. And now that you mention Tsunade I think she might be the weakest. However, her regeneration made her a badass (cant deny that)

And since I dont see Raikage as actually being the kind of guy to take on any other responsibilities besides protecting the village I think he would be more fit to be the guy to go to when the village needs to open up a can of whoop ass kind of like Kakashi or Naruto for example

***

Originally posted by dadudemon
😆 😆 😆

He uses an AWESOME hair gel. 😄

I figured it out. Since he no longer has to keep Orochimaru at bay, he spends more chakra on his hair 😆

Originally posted by Omnislash Kid
Well I dont really see Tsunade as kage level either

And as for the Danzo thing I thought they were all Chunnin that he killed (though I could be wrong. And if they were at the beginning of the series Sasuke took two Mist chunnin and won. I mean Kakashi finished them but Sasuke could have done it)

Ok and I guess Kakashi is close to Kage level in terms of actual ability. However, he doesn't have a lot of chakra and if he's dealing with Kage level opponents (like Akatsuki for example) he has to use sharingan which will wear him down way quicker.

And I know the Kage have a counsil but they're still Kage and they still have actual responsibilites as a Kage besides protecting the village. And yes, I also realize that they're the main guys to protect the village. And now that you mention Tsunade I think she might be the weakest. However, her regeneration made her a badass (cant deny that)

And since I dont see Raikage as actually being the kind of guy to take on any other responsibilities besides protecting the village I think he would be more fit to be the guy to go to when the village needs to open up a can of whoop ass kind of like Kakashi or Naruto for example

Like Dadudemon said, Kage doesn't only to how powerful you are. Naruto is the most powerful ninja in Konoha atm, yet we have Danzo as Hokage. KB is arguably more powerful (with the help of the 8 tails and all), but his brother is the Raikage.

She's definitely kage level though. Her strength (due to chakra in her case) rivals, if not surpasses, the Raikage's. Imo, she's the weakest of the Sannin, but she's still far more powerful than a Jounin.

We haven't seen her in a true fight in Part 2. She's most likely stronger now than she was in part 1.

Danzo is strong, don't let his appearance fool you. He also has the Sharingan and that mind control of his...

A Hokage is not about managing and funding the village. That is a minimal part of their job. Remember, Konoha is funded by the land of fire at large, and that is run by the Daimyo. The Hokage runs the military side of things but it is the Daimyo who ultimately is responsible for the existence of the ninja village. Like when the sand Daimyo cut the sunagakure budget, the kazekage couldn't do a thing to fix the finances, all he could do was ensure his ninja were as functional as possible.