Uchiha Sasuke

Madara could never have been the true leader if Pain stood up for himself. But Madara had him convinced that he was so much smarter than him, the Pain was right to follow him. If Pain hadn't been manipulated he could not only have ruled Akatsuki but the entire world. I mean he has a Kekkai Genkai that can use every single jutsu in the world, even the sharingan's copying can't use special natures and kekkai genkai.

Additionally he has the power to bring the dead back to life in full, not imperfect necromancy like Orochimaru either, but genuine control over life and death. He was basically a god. He would have been the greatest ninja of all if he had a stronger will and wasn't constantly following others.

Madara's phasing ability has never failed. Not once. It has not one known flaw. Nor does his teleportation. He was able to forcibly subdue, and then control the Kyuubi, the most powerful being in Naruto short of only the Sage of Six Paths (Prolly), and was a rival to the Shodaime, one of the strongest ninja to ever live. He was physically strong enough to block Suigetsu's blade with one arm, and has reputedly one of the strongest chakras ever, the strongest of the Uchiha for sure.

Madara has not done much, but what he has done is very impressive, why the hell is everyone saying Pain can beat Madara as if it is a factual statement? Hell, it would actually be retarded for Pain to NOT be weaker than Madara, and if you notice, Pain was upset with obeying Madara, yet told Konan to stfu when speaking out against him and followed his orders anyway. Gee I wonder why?

Chances are, Madara is stronger, and the strongest ninja to currently be alive.

Also, that one attack Nagato used to soul rip those doodz when Hanzo attacked...You do see how much it drained him, right? You really think he can do it again?

Oh, and the jutsu is apparently not unique to Nagato, Madara plans on making Sasuke the new "catalyst" so to speak.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Madara's phasing ability has never failed. Not once. It has not one known flaw. Nor does his teleportation. He was able to forcibly subdue, and then control the Kyuubi, the most powerful being in Naruto short of only the Sage of Six Paths (Prolly), and was a rival to the Shodaime, one of the strongest ninja to ever live. He was physically strong enough to block Suigetsu's blade with one arm, and has reputedly one of the strongest chakras ever, the strongest of the Uchiha for sure.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Madara has not done much, but what he has done is very impressive, why the hell is everyone saying Pain can beat Madara as if it is a factual statement? Hell, it would actually be retarded for Pain to NOT be weaker than Madara, and if you notice, Pain was upset with obeying Madara, yet told Konan to stfu when speaking out against him and followed his orders anyway. Gee I wonder why?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Also, that one attack Nagato used to soul rip those doodz when Hanzo attacked...You do see how much it drained him, right? You really think he can do it again?

Originally posted by NemeBro
Oh, and the jutsu is apparently not unique to Nagato, Madara plans on making Sasuke the new "catalyst" so to speak.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Madara's phasing ability has never failed. Not once. It has not one known flaw. Nor does his teleportation. He was able to forcibly subdue, and then control the Kyuubi, the most powerful being in Naruto short of only the Sage of Six Paths (Prolly), and was a rival to the Shodaime, one of the strongest ninja to ever live. He was physically strong enough to block Suigetsu's blade with one arm, and has reputedly one of the strongest chakras ever, the strongest of the Uchiha for sure.

Madara has not done much, but what he has done is very impressive, why the hell is everyone saying Pain can beat Madara as if it is a factual statement? Hell, it would actually be retarded for Pain to NOT be weaker than Madara, and if you notice, Pain was upset with obeying Madara, yet told Konan to stfu when speaking out against him and followed his orders anyway. Gee I wonder why?

Chances are, Madara is stronger, and the strongest ninja to currently be alive.

Also, that one attack Nagato used to soul rip those doodz when Hanzo attacked...You do see how much it drained him, right? You really think he can do it again?

Oh, and the jutsu is apparently not unique to Nagato, Madara plans on making Sasuke the new "catalyst" so to speak.

So because Pain's feats are currently better than Madara's you assume Pain is stronger?

No one knows at the moment who is stronger

But we know they are both immensely powerful. Pain can create something resembling a black hole, and copied that jutsu from the guy from KungFu Hussle ( ;p ). And Madara has a space time jutsu more advanced than the fourth, who was so strong in wars if he was spotted there was an immediate retreat order.

I have my own theories but i don't see the point in this arguement. Since it cannot be proven either way.

No, I believe Pain is stronger because Madara is obviously in a weakened state.

You believing it doesn't make it so.

That's all there is to it imo

So how does me proving you were wrong when you said :

"So because Pain's feats are currently better than Madara's you assume Pain is stronger?"

Suddenly equal me trying to say that I knew for a fact he was stronger?

Originally posted by King Kandy
So how does me proving you were wrong when you said :

"So because Pain's feats are currently better than Madara's you assume Pain is stronger?"

Suddenly equal me trying to say that I knew for a fact he was stronger?

You didn't prove anything ^^

Madara is in a weakened state doesn't mean a thing. It would be relative to how strong he was before versus how much 'weaker' he is.

So unless you know Madara was twice as powerful as Pain and is now at a third of his strength (just as an example) you can't possible know one is 'stronger'* than the other.

Which is what i said to begin with ;p

* Note strength can mean very little in the Naruto world. After all, in the right circumstances someone weaker can beat someone much stronger. So even though one may be stronger than the other who would win could still vary anyway.

I never said I KNEW Pain was stronger, that was my OPINION. What you said that was wrong, is saying I based that on lack of feats. I based that on, if he was stronger than any ninja alive, he would probably not be so concerned with repowering himself, nor would he have to rely on operatives so much.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I never said I KNEW Pain was stronger, that was my OPINION. What you said that was wrong, is saying I based that on lack of feats. I based that on, if he was stronger than any ninja alive, he would probably not be so concerned with repowering himself, nor would he have to rely on operatives so much.

Originally posted by King Kandy

Suddenly equal me trying to say that I knew for a fact he was stronger?

Statements like those confuse me if you're tryng to get your opinion accross or trying to prove it.

Nevermind then, i really don't think anyone could know who is better at what until Madara fights.

You misunderstood me. That second quote there was a continuation of the first sentence in that post. It was me clarifying that I never claimed to know the fact of the matter.

So, back to Sasuke. Would Madara have really given up Sasuke had the Kages agreed to hand over the Hachibi and the Kyuubi or was Madara just lying?

I think he was lying. Then again I think he's going to pull an Orochimaru and take Sasuke's body because it has Susano'o, and isn't damaged. Which is why he's pushing him to get stronger, and take Itachi's eyes.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
So, back to Sasuke. Would Madara have really given up Sasuke had the Kages agreed to hand over the Hachibi and the Kyuubi or was Madara just lying?