Originally posted by psycho gundamtechnically, he wasn't dubbed "doomsday" until the DoS saga [which took place some 250,000 years after his creation.]
technically, he became doomsday after he was killed the first time right?😄
but seriosly, i guess it's current version unless specified.
before that, i believe bertron simply called him "the ultimate" - and darkseid knew him as "the armageddon creature".
😛
Originally posted by -Pr-
ah, ok. it was retro fitted with apokolyptan tech, yes, but it is stated that they used the shell of an imperiex probe. you think darkseid has access to tech that would be able to withstand his omega if he wanted to annihilate it from existence? the shell has to at least contribute to it's impressive durability, or else why use it at all?diana had full armour and was using weaponry. when she struck down the imperiex probe that exploded, she was hit by the ensuing explosion. she didn't know that the self destruct was harmful, so her speed wouldn't have made a difference. how often does wally use IMP's? that's a forum tactic. j'onn was out in the first panel of the attack on the JLA. we don't know whether he used all his powers or not. he could have tried them all and still gotten smacked around the way pretty much every other hero on earth did. those probes were taking on teams of people including Zod's forces in pokolistan (sp?).
clark was stated to be operating on a higher level. the narrator says that after superman cuts loose, he starts wrecking probes. it's blatantly stated.
so it's not faulty, imo.
I never stated that the durability of the probe didnt contribute to that of the armour. I stated that the durability of the probe wasnt equal to that of armour, a claim which i stand by.
I understand the circumstances of dianas ko. But that doesnt change the fact that if she had indeed used her speed, it would have made for a very different fight. She would have been able to defeat the probe much faster as well as escape the ensuing explosion. Similarly i know that wally doesnt use IMPs regularly but superman doesnt fight in the same manner he fought the probes regularly either. Thats exactly the point. Wally was clearly not fighting to the best of his ability while superman was. The same goes for Jonn who could have efficiently combined his powers like phasing,speed and invisibility but didnt. Indeed the probes were smacking down teams of heroes, however if the individuals within thiose teams had used their powers as efficiently as superman used his it would have made for very different outcomes.
Yes clark was operating on a higher level as he was using his powers to the fullest. The characters we are comparing him to however were clearly not using theirs to the fullest within the same scenarios. Therefore there it is definitely faulty to use their fight against the imperiex probes to suggest that clark at that point and consequently doomsday were >>>>than the rest of the JLA combined, as one set were using their powers to the fullest (clark and doomsday) while the others were not (JLA).
Originally posted by Naija boya.) the heroes the imperiex probe owned were defending earth. to assume they were half-ass fighting goes against their very nature. furthermore, most of the heroes involved in that saga were written quite uber - for instance, that's the same arc kyle held a big bang in, etc.
Yes clark was operating on a higher level as he was using his powers to the fullest. The characters we are comparing him to however were clearly not using theirs to the fullest within the same scenarios. Therefore there it is definitely faulty to use their fight against the imperiex probes to suggest that clark at that point and consequently doomsday were >>>>than the rest of the JLA combined, as one set were using their powers to the fullest (clark and doomsday) while the others were not (JLA).
b.) keep in mind that along with the heroes previously mentioned, darkseid and the whole of apokolips, mongul and the whole of war world, zod and his guard, etc. were easily swatted to the side by probes.
c.) during "doomsday wars" [which took place roughly 3-4 years before OWAW], doomsday collectively owned kyle, flash, orion /w/ astro force, j'onn, dianna, plastic man, superman, etc. with a ridiculous amount of ease. thus, it's perfectly logical to assume he was >> the combined JLA, based on previously established feats.
Originally posted by Galan007
a.) the heroes the imperiex probe owned were defending earth. to assume they were half-ass fighting goes against their very nature. furthermore, most of the heroes involved in that saga were written quite uber - for instance, that's the same arc kyle held a big bang in, etc.b.) keep in mind that along with the heroes previously mentioned, darkseid and the whole of apokolips, mongul and the whole of war world, zod and his guard, etc. were easily swatted to the side by probes.
c.) during "doomsday wars" [which took place roughly 3-4 years before OWAW], doomsday collectively owned kyle, flash, orion /w/ astro force, j'onn, dianna, plastic man, superman, etc. with a ridiculous amount of ease. thus, it's perfectly logical to assume he was >> the combined JLA.
a). Im not assuming they were half ass fighting from an instory perspective, im sure they were all trying really hard.lol. However, they were indeed not utilizing their abilities to the same level as clark was using his. The same idea can be seen in the differences where thor fought onslaught and when thor fought thanos. Against,onslaught (from an in story perspective), was thor going all out?..Certainly yes. he even tried to go warrior madness. However did he utilize his powers as efficiently as he could have?...no. He didnt use many of his powers such as absorption,antiforce,godforce etc which could have all been very useful in that fight. Now Against thanos was thor going all out (once again look at it from an in story perspective)?...Yes he was. This time however he used his powers efficiently, combining his weather powers+different blasts+absorption and amplifcation of energy etc. This principle applies to in relation to different characters as well. Hence both can be going "all out" or "angry" or whatever u want to call it, but one can be using his abilities far more efficiently than the other.
b)Understood, however iirc those fights were mostly off panel and so the way in which DS and co fought is really up in the air.
c). I havent read DD wars but im pretty confident that the same problem occured in that scenario as its a problem that is rampant in most comics in which teams get beaten down.
Originally posted by Naija boyif you're truly of the belief that said characters were holding back in the separate instances i mentioned, then that's your opinion and you are welcome to it.
a). Im not assuming they were half ass fighting from an instory perspective, im sure they were all trying really hard.lol. However, they were indeed not utilizing their abilities to the same level as clark was using his. The same idea can be seen in the differences where thor fought onslaught and when thor fought thanos. Against,onslaught (from an in story perspective), was thor going all out?..Certainly yes. he even tried to go warrior madness. However did he utilize his powers as efficiently as he could have?...no. He didnt use many of his powers such as absorption,antiforce,godforce etc which could have all been very useful in that fight. Now Against thanos was thor going all out (once again look at it from an in story perspective)?...Yes he was. This time however he used his powers efficiently, combining his weather powers+different blasts+absorption and amplifcation of energy etc. This principle applies to in relation to different characters as well. Hence both can be going "all out" or "angry" or whatever u want to call it, but one can be using his abilities far more efficiently than the other.c). I havent read DD wars but im pretty confident that the same problem occured in that scenario as its a problem that is rampant in most comics in which teams get beaten down.
i, on the other hand, simply can't buy into such a notion.
Originally posted by Galan007
if you're truly of the belief that said characters were holding back in the separate instances i mentioned, then that's your opinion and you are welcome to it.i, on the other hand, simply can't buy into such a notion.
As seen in my last post i dont think they were "holding back" per se in any of the instances. i think that they were underutilzing their abilities (and ill read up on DD wars to confirm this) but thats not the same thing.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
superman from owaw was pretty damn impressive to me, either the writers nerfed him in the konvikt debacle or he was on roids in owaw. *shrugs*owaw supes would have eaten konvikt for breakfast.
Agreed. i dont doubt this. superman can and will be that impressive anytime he uses his abilities so efficiently. All im advocating is that other characters using their abilities to similar levels of efficiency can be just as impressive.
Originally posted by Naija boy
Wait werent HV beams affecting him? Also where was it stated that only a universal being could put a scratch on him? Even in the comics u claim to have read u still manage to fabricate nonsense. Also and it was thor with the Odin force that resisted the desintegration beam not regular thor. The destroyers beam has oneshotted regular thor on previous occasion.Also ur ridiculousness is further shown when u try to use a non-canon crossover to describe superman as being more durable than admantium.lol. Just stop debating comics, u clearly have not read many and simply make a fool of urself everytime u do.facepalm
HV didn't put a scratch on him. The mother box proved that the only thing that could end DD was Entropy (a universal force). The Odin force doesn't add any natural durability against the disintegrating beams. Comics are inconsistent. I know it was non canon as I mentioned. But canon has nothing to truth in itself. The writer's opinion is evidence enough for me.
Originally posted by h1a8
HV didn't put a scratch on him. The mother box proved that the only thing that could end DD was Entropy (a universal force). The Odin force doesn't add any natural durability against the disintegrating beams. Comics are inconsistent. I know it was non canon as I mentioned. But canon has nothing to truth in itself. The writer's opinion is evidence enough for me.
Originally posted by Naija boy
lol, I didnt focus on the astroforce because, tanking the astroforce was the lower of the two feats and from the get go i dont thnk it puts him out of the range of being affected by the destroyers beam. Hence it was irrelevant to my point. Further, since u attempted to use the omega beams to claim that DD would be unaffected by the destroyer blasts, i was obligated to bring to light the fact that the omegabeams have been tanked by beings around supermans level of durability. I even offered up an explanation for this (Darkseid varying the beams output) because i wasnt trying to downplay the overall power of the beams themselves.
😬Nextly, saying "there is very little supers cant do", doesnt even qualify as an argument. Indeed his high feats are impressive but they dont put him beyond other high heralders who have high feats just as good.
And as for the imperiex probe thing, indeed the probe was beating the JLA in much the same manner Konvict was beating them. but would u seriously then argue that each of the JLA members went all out and fought to the best of their abilities in the same manner that supes did when he fought the probes the second time? simply no. ITs similar to the situation in which konvikt, a character that superman can handle fairly easily on his own if he uses his abilities to fullest, was giving the JLA (superman included) fits. Its the same thing with characters like thor in the avengers, and surfer and Dr strange in the defenders. Characters that they can individually defeat without much trouble constantly give them huge problems while they fight in teams. Its as a result of not utilizing their abilities to the fullest. Its doesnt,as u seem to be implying, mean that there is some form of astronomical gap between superman and the rest of the JLA combined. The same thus goes for Doomsday as well.
And so no, doomsday destroying imperiex probes while impressive does not lead me to believe that he can harm the destroyer considering the beings that have failed in the past.
It has been noted that a few beings are key to the stability of reality are immune to the Omega Effect. This is why Superman has survived it. Cyborg has Superman's dna and is the reason he survived it too.
DD going through probes like tissue paper proves that he can indeed do some damage to the destroyer.
Originally posted by King Kandy
The mother box proved that Entropy was the only thing they could use that would stop him. There are many things that they had no access to.
The mother box could create any weapon, teleport beings to any location, and give exact info of anything in the universe. There was no other thing that could kill DD. He would either be already immune or quickly adapt to be.
Note: The OE and Astro Force are the power of the source and are greater than any non universal power in the universe.
Originally posted by h1a8
The mother box could create any weapon, teleport beings to any location, and give exact info of anything in the universe. There was no other thing that could kill DD. He would either be already immune or quickly adapt to be.Note: The OE and Astro Force are the power of the source and are greater than any non universal power in the universe.
Originally posted by King Kandy
If that was true, Doomsday could not have lost to anything besides Entropy in future incarnations. Obviously not true since he died many times later.
Imperiex had the power of Entropy and thus was the one one who had the rights to DD's life. DD Rex was weaker in every way except intelligence. DD's clones where just ... clones. Lastly the other version's that came after HP were never killed nor harmed.