Originally posted by -Pr-
you honestly don't see him doing any way decently against daken as being major PIS?
No I don't because he also did well against an opponent that Black Panther was that PIS well? What about Deadpool?
Its not PIS if he has the feats to back it up.
Originally posted by -Pr-
and a lot of the rest is ABC logic.
It is but in this situation its applies. You can't use Punisher's old fights against DD as proof to what will happen because Punisher is alot better so the only proof we have is his showings against other A-list fighters.
Originally posted by Deadline
No I don't because he also did well against an opponent that Black Panther was that PIS well? What about Deadpool?Its not PIS if he has the feats to back it up.
It is but in this situation its applies. You can't use Punisher's old fights against DD as proof to what will happen because Punisher is alot better so the only proof we have is his showings against other A-list fighters.
ABC logic never applies.
their fights against each other always take precedence over fights against others, unless thare are no recent fights at all. when was the last time the two men fought each other?
Originally posted by -Pr-
ABC logic never applies.
Sometimes it does actually. When two people have never fought or hardly fought you are forced to use ABC logic. When two people have fought but when of them has changed significantly then we have to take that into account. Once you take into account that one of them has changed their previous fights do not neccasrily apply.
Originally posted by -Pr-
their fights against each other always take precedence over fights against others, unless thare are no recent fights at all. when was the last time the two men fought each other?
No not neccsarily, especially if you see that one of them has improved alot. Last fight was in 2005. That doesn't apply because the Punisher that fought DD isn't the same his feats in general are alot better, therefore you can't expect the samething to happen.
Even if you don't think that Punisher would beat DD you would at least take into account he would do better. Ignoring his feats entirely and assuming the samething would happen is faulty logic.
Originally posted by Deadline
Sometimes it does actually. When two people have never fought or hardly fought you are forced to use ABC logic. When two people have fought but when of them has changed significantly then we have to take that into account. Once you take into account that one of them has changed their previous fights do not neccasrily apply.No not neccsarily, especially if you see that one of them has improved alot. Last fight was in 2005. That doesn't apply because the Punisher that fought DD isn't the same his feats in general are alot better, therefore you can't expect the samething to happen.
Even if you don't think that Punisher would beat DD you would at least take into account he would do better. Ignoring his feats entirely and assuming the samething would happen is faulty logic.
ABC logic =/= deduction.
2005 was four years ago. are you honestly trying to say that frank has had a massive amp since then?
i'm not assuming the same thing would happen. I simply think Matt would get the majority.
Originally posted by -Pr-
ABC logic =/= deduction.
Its not faulty logic to use his fights against the fighters I mentioned for the reasons given.
Originally posted by -Pr-
2005 was four years ago. are you honestly trying to say that frank has had a massive amp since then?
Its big enough. I know because i've done the reasearch I have shit loads of Punisher and can make comparisons.
Some of his feats in the PWJ series were >>> past versions of Punisher. I could list loads of examples.
Originally posted by -Pr-
i'm not assuming the same thing would happen. I simply think Matt would get the majority.
Are you taking his recent showings into consideration?
so his recent showings show him beating up kraven and kingpin so? you are trying to make it sound like this is a whole new punisher which isnt the case at all, you are trying to force people to ignore all the character history and just focus on his recent best showings , it was never stated he got some kind of upgrade right? it was never hinter or shown in the comics so what makes you think its a different punisher? its just that recently he got some better showings thats all the same thing was with spider-man and wolverine
so if tomorrow i will read an issue of wolverine beating up hulk then i will say hey guys this is a new improved wolverine so now when i will debate in wolverine favour i will say ignore all his history and lets only focus on the recent showing of him beating hulk because this feat suits me more in the arguments
nice try
Originally posted by Deadline
Its not faulty logic to use his fights against the fighters I mentioned for the reasons given.Its big enough. I know because i've done the reasearch I have shit loads of Punisher and can make comparisons.
Some of his feats in the PWJ series were >>> past versions of Punisher. I could list loads of examples.
Are you taking his recent showings into consideration?
it is if they're people he shouldn't be competing with.
4 years isn't a long time. that must have been some amp.
like what, holding his own against daken?
marvel just decided to throw some good showing in punisher favour things like that happen with almost every character once in a while i dont see the big deal , facts remain the same in almost every single fight daredevil beats punisher thats it and its the same punisher unless it will be stated he went true some kind of upgrade
Originally posted by -Pr-
it is if they're people he shouldn't be competing with.
Its not faulty logic if he keeps having good feats against these opponents. That means hes really that good. Peoples showings don't always remain the same.
Originally posted by -Pr-
4 years isn't a long time. that must have been some amp.
The fact remains that within those 4 years hes improved alot. The whole premise of the new PWJ series is that Punisher is fighting superhumans and even Remender himself stated that he was basing Punisher on the classic version of Punisher. The classic version also has some of the best feats ever and could arguably beat DD as well.
Like I said I can give loads of examples.
Originally posted by -Pr-
like what, holding his own against daken?
Which isn't PIS because hes got other feats to back it up.
I have to agree with Deadline that classic Punisher was a beast. He used to give Spiderman a run for his money in unarmed fights and reularly took out whole gangs of thuhgs with just his bare hands. In the early 90's -to make his stories more "realistic"- Frank was shown to get his head kicked in when single handedly taking on gangs of armed thugs (armed with bats and clubs etc..) without weapons of his own. This happened in Punisher's own comics and many writers after this period had this down as their standard version of Punisher. Punisher's recent good showings are not PIS or Punisher being somehow amped. They are consistent with the level he was shown at before the 90's.
DD still takes him, though -but takes a beating himself on the way to victory. It would be like Apollo Creed's points victory against Rocky Balboa in Rocky1. The more skillfil fighter winning, but getting bashed up themselves.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Not cool, bro. It's been way too soon...Punisher beating Daken h2h is PIS because Daken has better physical stats, has a healing factor, and his pheromones would disorient Castle.
I agree with that too; the Punisher has always been tough as nails. I don't think anyone is disputing that.
The problem here is that Deadline is referencing inconclusive fights between Castle and others as evidence that he'd beat Daredevil. By doing so, he's hyping up Castle and lowballing anyone who's not Castle, regardless of the circumstances in his "proof".
Originally posted by BUSTER1I agree with that too; the Punisher has always been tough as nails. I don't think anyone is disputing that.
I have to agree with Deadline that classic Punisher was a beast. He used to give Spiderman a run for his money in unarmed fights and reularly took out whole gangs of thuhgs with just his bare hands. In the early 90's -to make his stories more "realistic"- Frank was shown to get his head kicked in when single handedly taking on gangs of armed thugs (armed with bats and clubs etc..) without weapons of his own. This happened in Punisher's own comics and many writers after this period had this down as their standard version of Punisher. Punisher's recent good showings are not PIS or Punisher being somehow amped. They are consistent with the level he was shown at before the 90's.
DD still takes him, though -but takes a beating himself on the way to victory. It would be like Apollo Creed's points victory against Rocky Balboa in Rocky1. The more skillfil fighter winning, but getting bashed up themselves.
The problem here is that Deadline is referencing inconclusive fights between Castle and others as evidence that he'd beat Daredevil. By doing so, he's hyping up Castle and lowballing anyone who's not Castle, regardless of the circumstances in his "proof".
Originally posted by Battlehammer
he did not beat Daken in hand two hand. Daken did not even uses his pheramones. actaully the only reason punisher even lasted was due to fighting dirty and biting daken face. Most of the time Punisher used guns. In the end Daken kick his ass. Not sure what I punisher fans think that showing proves. All it proves is Punisher in his final living apearance was able to show some impressive damage soak which allowed him to hand in a fight with daken for a short while.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
I agree with that too; the Punisher has always been tough as nails. I don't think anyone is disputing that.The problem here is that Deadline is referencing inconclusive fights between Castle and others as evidence that he'd beat Daredevil. By doing so, he's hyping up Castle and lowballing anyone who's not Castle, regardless of the circumstances in his "proof".
I completely agree.
Thats why I posted the Daken fight. He seem to be implying Punisher was beating on Daken in h2h fight which is far from the cases, all Punisher really did was wistand crazy amount of damage for a human.
Originally posted by BUSTER1
I have to agree with Deadline that classic Punisher was a beast. He used to give Spiderman a run for his money in unarmed fights and reularly took out whole gangs of thuhgs with just his bare hands. In the early 90's -to make his stories more "realistic"- Frank was shown to get his head kicked in when single handedly taking on gangs of armed thugs (armed with bats and clubs etc..) without weapons of his own. This happened in Punisher's own comics and many writers after this period had this down as their standard version of Punisher. Punisher's recent good showings are not PIS or Punisher being somehow amped. They are consistent with the level he was shown at before the 90's.
DD still takes him, though -but takes a beating himself on the way to victory. It would be like Apollo Creed's points victory against Rocky Balboa in Rocky1. The more skillfil fighter winning, but getting bashed up themselves.
At least you actually acknowledge and understand what im saying. However its Mike Baron who really wanted to make Punisher more realistic and other writers followed that example.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
Not cool, bro. It's been way too soon...Punisher beating Daken h2h is PIS because Daken has better physical stats, has a healing factor, and his pheromones would disorient Castle.
You're right so was Punishers fight with Deadpool, Kraven The Hunter, Tiger Shark and his showing against Spiderman were all PIS. In fact all his good showings are PIS and it has nothing to do with the writers making Punisher reach his full potential.
Originally posted by Eternal Idol
The problem here is that Deadline is referencing inconclusive fights between Castle and others as evidence that he'd beat Daredevil. By doing so, he's hyping up Castle and lowballing anyone who's not Castle, regardless of the circumstances in his "proof".
😂 Oh I see, if you're going to go down that route alot of DD's h2h fights are inconclusive as well. 😉