Gladiator and Silver Surfer vs. Zoom and Ring Mongul

Originally posted by Naija boy
He doesnt have to think on zooms level of speed, all he has to do is think fast enough to set up a forcefield before being koed. Thats what i think he can do.

Wallys perceptions while they are sped up are still regular so since Zoom was too fast for him to even see their was no way he would have been able to react to physically him. Surfer on the other hand not only has sped up perceptions but also greatly enhanced perceptions. And im not even talking about his vision (which is greatly enhanced as well). Surfers cosmic senses have alerted him to even the materialization of subatomic particles. Hence he already has the advantage over wally that he wouldnt need to actually see Zoom. Then I believe he would be able to mentally set up a forcefield (which is a much faster method of defence than physical reaction) before Zoom is able to ko him.

Once that is done, omni directional blast across battlefield which takes out Zoom.

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Since when does Wally have regular Perception? how can he move so fast that he beats teleporting and have regular perception?

By regular i mean he has normal eyesight (no xray vision, infrared vision etc), sense of smell,hearing etc.

However his perception is sped up and thats why he can react and perceive thing while moving at such high speeds.

Originally posted by Naija boy
He doesnt have to think on zooms level of speed, all he has to do is think fast enough to set up a forcefield before being koed. Thats what i think he can do.

Wallys perceptions while they are sped up are still regular so since Zoom was too fast for him to even see their was no way he would have been able to react to physically him. Surfer on the other hand not only has sped up perceptions but also greatly enhanced perceptions. And im not even talking about his vision (which is greatly enhanced as well). Surfers cosmic senses have alerted him to even the materialization of subatomic particles. Hence he already has the advantage over wally that he wouldnt need to actually see Zoom. Then I believe he would be able to mentally set up a forcefield (which is a much faster method of defence than physical reaction) before Zoom is able to ko him.

Once that is done, omni directional blast across battlefield which takes out Zoom.

regardless, if you truly think surfer is > [speed/perception-wise] than an amped wally, then that's your opinion and you are welcome to it - but there would be no point in a continued debate either.

furthermore, i think you're somewhat missing my point where zoom being ahead of normal time is concerned. i mean, if zoom exists ahead of the timeline surfer is in, there is no possible way surfer could compensate with his abilities, because they all operate within the normal timestream [which, again, zoom is ahead of.]

Originally posted by Galan007
the SF greatly enhances wally's perceptions - they are far from 'regular'. however, even when wally was amped with the powers of bart and jay, he still could barely perceive zoom as a blur. do you realize how absurdly fast zoom is?

regardless, if you truly think surfer is > [speed/perception-wise] than an amped wally, then that's your opinion and you are welcome to it - but there would be no point in a continued debate either.

furthermore, i think you're somewhat missing my point where zoom being ahead of normal time is concerned. i mean, if zoom exists ahead of the timeline surfer is in, there is no possible way surfer could compensate with his abilities, because they all operate within the normal timestream [which, again, zoom is ahead of.]

By "regular" im sure u know i didnt mean equivalent to that of a human as i know his are much faster. I was referring to the basic means of perception (i.e vision) being the same. Now i know how fast Zoom is but given surfers mental processing and perception speed its within reason for him to be able to set up a forcefield before he gets koed. As i mentioned he doesnt need to actually see Zoom because of his cosmic perceptions and he will be mentally reacting to him rather than physically. These are two advantages wally didnt have. Moreover his extremely high durability also makes it that it will take a longer time to ko him which gives him more time to throw up the forcefield.

Also in regards to the actual speed of surfers perception/mental ability, In the scan i showed to indicate surfers perceptions, He was so fast that billions and billions of stars were racing past him. Considering that stars are usually light years apart. Surfer was going in far excess of billions of times the speed of light. He was able to perceive each and every one of these stars, note their positions and then use those positions to calculate his position in the universe. Its also notable that these stars appeared only as sparks of light to him due to his speed and so he would have viewed them only for a very miniscule amount of yet he was still able to rapidly and simultaneously perform complex mental actions based on his viewing of them. Its already an insane perception feat for him to be able to focus on each of these billions of stars at that speed (albeit for a miniscule amount of time), but its even more insane because of the complex calculations he is able to perform after such insignificant glances.

I dont think Zoom or Wally were moving anywhere near billions of time the speed of light when fighting after wally had been amped with jesse quicks speed (wally could fully perceive him when amped to that level of speed). The best calculations ive seen put them at 20,000 times light speed and surfer has shown to perceive things in excess of such speeds.

Now in regards to Zoom operating ahead of the timestream, his fight with wally actually showed that given enough speed (whether perception or movement,) Zooms abilities could be nearly matched.Note that as wally became faster, he began to perceive Zoom better until he got up to the point where he could fully perceive him and react to him physically (to some extent that is)

Originally posted by Naija boy
By "regular" im sure u know i didnt mean equivalent to that of a human as i know his are much faster. I was referring to the basic means of perception (i.e vision) being the same. Now i know how fast Zoom is but given surfers mental processing and perception speed its within reason for him to be able to set up a forcefield before he gets koed. As i mentioned he doesnt need to actually see Zoom because of his cosmic perceptions and he will be mentally reacting to him rather than physically. These are two advantages wally didnt have. Moreover his extremely high durability also makes it that it will take a longer time to ko him which gives him more time to throw up the forcefield.

Also in regards to the actual speed of surfers perception/mental ability, In the scan i showed to indicate surfers perceptions, He was so fast that billions and billions of stars were racing past him. Considering that stars are usually light years apart. Surfer was going in far excess of billions of times the speed of light. He was able to perceive each and every one of these stars, note their positions and then use those positions to calculate his position in the universe. Its also notable that these stars appeared only as sparks of light to him due to his speed and so he would have viewed them only for a very miniscule amount of yet he was still able to rapidly and simultaneously perform complex mental actions based on his viewing of them. Its already an insane perception feat for him to be able to focus on each of these billions of stars at that speed (albeit for a miniscule amount of time), but its even more insane because of the complex calculations he is able to perform after such insignificant glances.

I dont think Zoom or Wally were moving anywhere near billions of time the speed of light when fighting after wally had been amped with jesse quicks speed (wally could fully perceive him when amped to that level of speed). The best calculations ive seen put them at 20,000 times light speed and surfer has shown to perceive things in excess of such speeds.

Now in regards to Zoom operating ahead of the timestream, his fight with wally actually showed that given enough speed (whether perception or movement,) Zooms abilities could be nearly matched.Note that as wally became faster, he began to perceive Zoom better until he got up to the point where he could fully perceive him and react to him physically (to some extent that is)

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Um, Wally has moved faster than instantaneous travel and beaten death which is literally everywhere at once. So yeah, He and Zoom were traveling far far faster than 20k light. How in the heck did you even come up with that? Anyone who reads flash knows that he's moved Super luminal on his own before which is so fast that not even Superman could keep up. And Superman has flown from Vega to earth in under a minute.

Originally posted by darthgoober
From what I understand Wally didn't beat the teleportation, he beat the "thought" that would have activated the teleportation(pretty sure Galan said something to that effect). And Surfer's speed has also proved to be too much for Death(in the form of Deathurge).

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Even Still, Wally has moved so fast that Superman was literally a statue. Superman couldn't even help him fight zoom. Superman has flown from Vega to Earth. That is literally billions of times faster than light. So someone saying Zoom and Wally fought at 20k light just doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Hasn't both Supes's and WW's speed proved to be enough to tag Zoom on other occasions though?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Zoom only fights heroes to teach them something. He fought Wally at those crazy speeds to push wally harder. He wasn't going to fight Superman and Wonder Woman that fast when that won't teach them anything. Neither can push themselves that fast.

Originally posted by darthgoober
So you're basing his speed on one showing against Flash?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
I'm basing it on all the showings of the flash thru out his career and the other speedsters that he had to tap, and the fact that it still wasn't enough.

Originally posted by darthgoober
In one showing right? Does Zoom have any other instances of his speed being anywhere near that level or is that the only one?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Does Surfer have any other showings of beating two galactus level beings or is it just that one?

And you still haven't answered the question, is that the only showing where Zoom shows that level of speed?

Originally posted by darthgoober
Just the one, that's why a thread featuring "Surfer vs *insert two Galactus level beings*" would be closed for spite. Would YOU give Surfer a forum win over two G level guys based on that one instance?

And you still haven't answered the question, is that the only showing where Zoom shows that level of speed?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Anyone with common comics experience knows that you have to look at villains diff than Heroes. They are made to eventually lose. That is why someone like Thanos who is smarter and more powerful than everyone always phucks up his power. You also gotta realize Vills have less appearances than Heroes. So you gotta use the heroe's feats to back up the villian. When doomsday killed Superman, we knew he was crazy powerful even with that one appearance. just because of who superman was. so now, i know Zoom is faster than 20k light becuz wally has traveled faster than that and he still wasn't fast enough. To answer your question. Also Zoom always fights to just the level above who he is fighting to better them. what is the point of arguing comics if we don't take into account the motives and M.O. of the characters? geesh. We all know surfer can turn anyone he fights into stone but he doesn't because it is not his M.O.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Also in regards to the actual speed of surfers perception/mental ability, In the scan i showed to indicate surfers perceptions, He was so fast that billions and billions of stars were racing past him. Considering that stars are usually light years apart. Surfer was going in far excess of billions of times the speed of light. He was able to perceive each and every one of these stars, note their positions and then use those positions to calculate his position in the universe.

I dont think Zoom or Wally were moving anywhere near billions of time the speed of light when fighting after wally had been amped with jesse quicks speed (wally could fully perceive him when amped to that level of speed). The best calculations ive seen put them at 20,000 times light speed and surfer has shown to perceive things in excess of such speeds.

Now in regards to Zoom operating ahead of the timestream, his fight with wally actually showed that given enough speed (whether perception or movement,) Zooms abilities could be nearly matched.Note that as wally became faster, he began to perceive Zoom better until he got up to the point where he could fully perceive him and react to him physically (to some extent that is)

wally was able to perceive zoom because he had become so fast [via extreme ampage] that time literally did not apply to him. yet even then it was a very good fight. however, zoom has shown the ability to control his personal time bubble with a good amount of precision [enabling him to 'fast-forward' himself to become faster... if need be.]

regardless, my opinion on the matter has been stated, so there's really no point in circling around again. no offense to you, of course... our discussions are always respectful and pleasant.

🙂

Originally posted by darthgoober
You're still not answering the question. What I'm asking is, does Zoom have any other instances of him possessing that level of speed? If so, what are they?

Originally posted by Zeuodin
Does Superman have any other instances of holding the weight of infinity in his hand? What you are asking is silly. It's Zoom's high end feat because he had to fight that hard to get Wally to get better. he doesn't even need to be anywhere near that fast to be faster than Surfer can react to.

Spidey's high end includes trouncing Firelord, do you accept that one high end showing as the accurate depiction of his abilities or do you look at his other showings and try to find a more reasonable average?

Also, you seem to be having a lot of difficulty giving a strait answer to a fairly simple question...

Originally posted by darthgoober
Nope, and if you started a thread asking if Supes could lift an infinite amount of weight everyone with a brain would say no.