Originally posted by Ms.Marvel
whats wrong with this? id feel more comfortable in iraq knowing that al-quidea has to go through twenty Mexicans to get to me. 😐 have you heard of human meat shields? played gears of war 2?
Except, it will be Al-Qaida who will be sending immigrants to America, and not Mexicans.
Besides, if I was an illegal, in Iraq I have pledged no alligance to your country - I'd be more than happy to sell information about American military strategy or locations to Iraqis. Since they're kind of dirt poor, Iranians, Chinese, Russians, North Koreans and Wahhabis would pay my illegal Mexican ass a lot of money for some Amero killings.
In fact, I'd make it a business - sending illegals to American border, then getting them transferred to Iraq or Afghanistan, then getting money for the info on getting Ameros killed in Afghanistan or Iraq.
Seriously, that business would bring more money than any drug pushing ever could.
Oh and let me guess, you'd get rid of all Americans in your army and have band illegals who were not skilled enough to jump a fence fight your war.
This should be a comicbook. Someone draw one.
to be fair, the Wahabbis can get in through special business visas which allow buisnessmen from Saudi Arabia to get into America without the normal checks and so forth.
iirc (and I can't be bothered to wiki it) this is how most of the 9/11 hijackers got into the states.
I'd agree though, there are some fairly obvious problems with putting the defense of one's nation in the hands of foreign nationals and criminals (though, the army has lowered it requirements to the point where convicted rapists can join).
i blame it on whiny lil b@%#'s.. 😎 oo boo hoo u want ur mommy?! you cant take a compliment?! what r u doing in my military then marine/soldier/recruit(female)?! get down and give me push ups!
tank
u aware u should be proud ur even in now? they plan on removing ur kind in the nxt 5 yrs.... and focusing on pure combat MOS!? get out of my face girlie!! go talk to ur Chaplin and equal opportunity rep!! move it move it!
usaflag
cant take a compliment, hate to scream at them but luv watching them leave.. bumpity bump...hmmm...
Originally posted by inimalist
(though, the army has lowered it requirements to the point where convicted rapists can join).
Just the opposite, actually. Since 9/11, they've made things much more strict.
For instance, a close friend of mine wasn't allowed to join the marines because he stole a drink from Wal-mart and got criminally charged for it. It was a $1.20 drink that he picked up on his break, while working at Wal-mart, that he always paid for after his break. It was a routine, but someone (new assistant manager) didn't like that and he has a "criminal" record, now.
Something that simple can prevent you from joining.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Just the opposite, actually. Since 9/11, they've made things much more strict.For instance, a close friend of mine wasn't allowed to join the marines because he stole a drink from Wal-mart and got criminally charged for it. It was a $1.20 drink that he picked up on his break, while working at Wal-mart, that he always paid for after his break. It was a routine, but someone (new assistant manager) didn't like that and he has a "criminal" record, now.
Something that simple can prevent you from joining.
Overzealous managers are retarded.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Just the opposite, actually. Since 9/11, they've made things much more strict.For instance, a close friend of mine wasn't allowed to join the marines because he stole a drink from Wal-mart and got criminally charged for it. It was a $1.20 drink that he picked up on his break, while working at Wal-mart, that he always paid for after his break. It was a routine, but someone (new assistant manager) didn't like that and he has a "criminal" record, now.
Something that simple can prevent you from joining.
actually, since the war in Iraq broke the military and the institution of the "back door draft" the regulations have been coming down.
get on me if you want sources tomorrow, I'm sleepy atm, but ya, it is only certain crimes that have been exempted, one being rape, another being armed robbery iirc.
but hey, at least they aren't gay
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Wait, are you saying convicted rapists CAN join the army, or not?
sorry, those convicted of sexual assault, not necessarily rape
anyways, looked it up
stats from 2003-2006:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/us/14military.html
2006-2007:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24243460/
EDIT: the MSNBC article calls them "sex crimes", from page 2 of the article "(which can include rape, incest or sexual assaults)"
EDIT 2: apparently domestic terrorism doesn't prevent one either, "Two received waivers for terrorist threats including bomb threats in 2007, compared to one in 2006." for the army and "and five for terror threats, including bomb threats, compared to two in 2006." for the marines
I really should work on less contraversial, more benign threads. Otherwise I feel like every attempt at rational debate turns into a Frankenstein's Monster within 4 hours and degenerates into off topic debates. I was kind of under the assumption that a minority of immigrants would choose the military option and there would be screenings.
Hell, I'm for the old system where they wouldn't let anyone guilty of any crimes of moral turpitude (with the exception of adultery and sodomy in today's world of course) into the military and no one with any affiliation or association with political extremists, specifically communists, fascists, racists/supremacists etc. Used to be they'd boot you out during the physical if they found a swastika tattoo on you. Of course, if they reenacted and enforced this kind of stuff they'd have to kick out a fourth of the chaplains and half the air force.
Originally posted by Darth Jello
I really should work on less contraversial, more benign threads. Otherwise I feel like every attempt at rational debate turns into a Frankenstein's Monster within 4 hours and degenerates into off topic debates. I was kind of under the assumption that a minority of immigrants would choose the military option and there would be screenings.Hell, I'm for the old system where they wouldn't let anyone guilty of any crimes of moral turpitude (with the exception of adultery and sodomy in today's world of course) into the military and no one with any affiliation or association with political extremists, specifically communists, fascists, racists/supremacists etc. Used to be they'd boot you out during the physical if they found a swastika tattoo on you. Of course, if they reenacted and enforced this kind of stuff they'd have to kick out a fourth of the chaplains and half the air force.
I think any kind of enforcement of the idea of immigrants being forced to serve time in the military could be ruthlessly exploited. You only have to look at the events of the last few days in Afghanistan to see what could happen. A terrorist infilitrated the national police and during his training with live ammunition, turned around and machine gunned five British soldiers to death.
It would obviously be far more difficult to do on US soil but it could be done and would be devestating perhaps not so much in loss of life but in morale and the public's perception of military security.
They're given choices. Again, civil service is not the military. It pays slightly less and you don't get VA benefits and under my plan you'd only get legal residency, not citizenship unless you served two terms but you are risking less personally and living a relatively normal and quiet life doing so, not the irregular mess that is military service. You're sacrificing less therefore your reward is less.
I think every American should be given the option of military or civil service upon completion of high school with the reward being free education and the choice of civil, military, or peace corps service in exchange for free post-grad education after college. The establishment would never do this because it would mean raising taxes, canceling stupid programs, and having more liberals and anti-corporatists as a result of having more educated people and more people in the middle class who actually have the time and resources to think and work things out for themselves and participate in government and causes which politicians hate.
Originally posted by jaden101
I think any kind of enforcement of the idea of immigrants being forced to serve time in the military could be ruthlessly exploited. You only have to look at the events of the last few days in Afghanistan to see what could happen. A terrorist infilitrated the national police and during his training with live ammunition, turned around and machine gunned five British soldiers to death.It would obviously be far more difficult to do on US soil but it could be done and would be devestating perhaps not so much in loss of life but in morale and the public's perception of military security.
very conservative source, but discussing Andres Raya, a former marine who opened fire on police in Ceres, California. Some gang relations, sort of like what you are talking about with people infiltrating the military and using that to cause domestic issues (though, it was really hard to find just a news story of this issue, as the left want to martyr Raya as an anti-war suicide, and the right want to demonize him as a gang banger latino):
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin011905.php3
just how easy it is for illegal aliens to enter the American military:
http://michellemalkin.com/2004/10/17/illegal-aliens-in-the-military-2/
Originally posted by Darth Jello
They're given choices.
Which is what would be exploited. Potential terrorists would enter the country as illegal immigrants...Get caught deliberately so they could choose military service and then use that access to weapons and training to kill US troops inside US bases on US soil. Which would be a massive psychological victory for terrorists.
Potential terrorists enter the military all the time right now. The kind that are statistically more dangerous than al qaida. The SPLC has been tracking them and as stated above, many in the military, especially in the air force and chaplains aid and abet domestic terrorists right now. That's not a problem with the plan. That's a problem with the military not screening people properly and loosening their enlistment requirements.
Why have a plan that could potentially increase the problem? Not to mention that this is the kind of infiltration that isn't theoretical. It is happening more and more in Afghanistan where the Taliban are infiltrating the Afghan military and police and using their position to kill allied soldiers and civilians. If memory serves me correctly, it was also used in Iraq on occassion too.
Having a system that allows this to happen in the US is dangerous. Terrorist organisations have the capability to fake papers to show false country of origin of immigrants to make them look less of a threat.
I presume your idea is aimed more at limiting the number of illegal immigrants from Mexico. I believe it was PVS who gave a simple solution. Force employers to pay illegal immigrants the same rate of pay as legally employed staff. This would eliminate their incentive to employ illegal immigrants in the 1st place. The work for illegal immigrants would dry up and so the motivation for them coming into the country in the 1st place would disappear. Employment rates would improve and more tax would be getting generated.
Less paper work and red tape. Less need for detailed security checks that would be nigh on impossible to get accurate. Less beauracracy would mean less cost.
I don't care about immigration per se. I care about decreasing demand in the labor market, that's the main goal. I don't care how many immigrants come here as long as they're not criminals/terrorists, and as long as we have demand for them in the labor market. Punishing businesses that break the law and keeping people out of the labor market until there is room for them seems like a much better solution than the status quo or being a dick and deporting people by force or detaining them at immigration centers which are rife with violence and sexual abuse. Plus, this will take legitimacy away from dicks like the minuteman project.