Idea for solving illegal immigration

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I don't care about immigration per se. I care about decreasing demand in the labor market, that's the main goal. I don't care how many immigrants come here as long as they're not criminals/terrorists, and as long as we have demand for them in the labor market. Punishing businesses that break the law and keeping people out of the labor market until there is room for them seems like a much better solution than the status quo or being a dick and deporting people by force or detaining them at immigration centers which are rife with violence and sexual abuse. Plus, this will take legitimacy away from dicks like the minuteman project.

I agree. Deportation is pointless because, a lot of the time, it's illegal because you're not allowed to deport asylum seekers or illegal immigrants to countries where they are at risk of torture or being made a political prisoner. Detaining them in facilities during protracted legal action is just a waste of money and having them working in the black market means they contribute nothing to the economy and are themselves, exploited and have a poor standard of living.

On the other hand, some people need to be detained and deported. Some need to be detained until background checks are done. Here in the UK there was a massive media highlighting on the problem of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers who have been let into the country despite committing horrific crimes in their home countries (rapists, paedophiles and murderers) and due to inadequate background checks, have been allowed to commit these crimes here too. What's worse is that when some of these people were released from jail, they weren't deported and due to their illegal status were able to disappear into the community again.

There is a balance to be had and systems all over the world which have to deal with large numbers of illegal immigrants or asylum seekers tend to be not fit for purpose.

People often forget that compared to Europe, the US is not as nearly as strict on immigration as they are nor on citizenship and national and ethnic identity as a matter of public policy.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
People often forget that compared to Europe, the US is not as nearly as strict on immigration as they are nor on citizenship and national and ethnic identity as a matter of public policy.

The problem in Europe is that immigration policies tend to be made by sovereign nations but if this conflicts with EU and international laws such as hurman rights laws then they are circumvented. Hence what I said about some asylum seekers and illegal immigrants being able to stay in the countries they have migrated to despite them contributing nothing to those societies because to be returned to their country of origin would break human rights laws.

The guest worker program seems very exploitative to me. Hence why Europe has had so much race and ethnic rioting over the last decade plus it still exacerbates problems with the labor market and all the social ills associated with unemployment and a worker caste in society.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
The guest worker program seems very exploitative to me. Hence why Europe has had so much race and ethnic rioting over the last decade plus it still exacerbates problems with the labor market and all the social ills associated with unemployment and a worker caste in society.

I think those issues are isolated to certain countries. France (Paris in particular) has massive issues. Greece's issues were over something completely different. I'm unsure about issues in recent additions to the EU as I haven't really been looking into it so I couldn't tell you about them.

Germany has always had immigration issues because they are a hardline country compared with most other EU countries in terms of immigration.

It's what caused the emergence of skinhead culture (along with Ska music). Well Skinheads before they were Nazi. Back when they only hated Pakistanis.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
It's what caused the emergence of skinhead culture (along with Ska music). Well Skinheads before they were Nazi. Back when they only hated Pakistanis.

Race nor politics were an instigator of skinhead culture. Early to mid 60's was the origins of it and it was all about music and clothing. It was the late 60's when violence against Asian immigrants began. It was also confined to small areas of England. In Scotland and Nothern England, skinheads were vehemently anti-racist for the majority.

Although the connotation of "skinhead" now brings negative images of the time, it was only a tiny minority of the movement that was the problem.

I suppose the same can be said about all aspects of riots that have been immigration related though.

I know the difference between a baldy, bonehead, and SHARP

Originally posted by Darth Jello
I know the difference between a baldy, bonehead, and SHARP

Taken out of context. Probably the oddest sentence ever written on KMC.

😆

I don't buy into the whole concept of music and clothing launches certain groups. Reminds me of the Zoot suit gang members here in So Cal claiming they began as normal kids having fun but were discriminated for their culture....yeah right, you were discriminated for committing crimes that's why you thugs.

Originally posted by inimalist
actually, since the war in Iraq broke the military and the institution of the "back door draft" the regulations have been coming down.

get on me if you want sources tomorrow, I'm sleepy atm, but ya, it is only certain crimes that have been exempted, one being rape, another being armed robbery iirc.

but hey, at least they aren't gay

Then it could be a local problem rather than a national.

However, the "army recruiter"* said he was having so many applicants that they are getting pickier and not taking any with criminal records or any without a highschool diploma. GED doesn't cut it.

*Yes, this friend of mine tried the Army, next. He got charged with Petty Theft or something like that, which prevented him from joining either the Marines or the Army. That, and the lack of highschool diploma.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Overzealous managers are retarded.

Yeah. I'm sure you covered scenarios like that in your criminal justice at one point for your masters degree. Some things are just a waste on the system.

Originally posted by WickedDynamite
I don't buy into the whole concept of music and clothing launches certain groups. Reminds me of the Zoot suit gang members here in So Cal claiming they began as normal kids having fun but were discriminated for their culture....yeah right, you were discriminated for committing crimes that's why you thugs.

Doesn't really matter what you buy into. It's historical fact that skinhead culture of music and appearance pre-dates "skinhead" as a vessel for facism and racism. I believe it wasn't until the skinhead "revival" of the late 70's that the racist element hit the US...Some 15 years after the non political and non racial movement began in the UK. Skinheads were simply no different from punks, goths, emos etc. They were simply another music and image led group. To paint the origins of the movement as being initially a reaction to immigration is incorrect. At least here in the UK.

Obviously the US never had the skinhead culture without the racism and so the US perception of "skinhead" is different.

Groups such as SHARP are a reaction to the latter. They simply wouldn't have been needed in the early 60's in the UK because there was no racial prejudice in the skinhead movement.

We do, it's just not given as much exposure as the bonehead mother****ers.

Originally posted by jaden101
Doesn't really matter what you buy into. It's historical fact that skinhead culture of music and appearance pre-dates "skinhead" as a vessel for facism and racism. I believe it wasn't until the skinhead "revival" of the late 70's that the racist element hit the US...Some 15 years after the non political and non racial movement began in the UK. Skinheads were simply no different from punks, goths, emos etc. They were simply another music and image led group. To paint the origins of the movement as being initially a reaction to immigration is incorrect. At least here in the UK.

Obviously the US never had the skinhead culture without the racism and so the US perception of "skinhead" is different.

Groups such as SHARP are a reaction to the latter. They simply wouldn't have been needed in the early 60's in the UK because there was no racial prejudice in the skinhead movement.

Oh, it does matter to me...trust me. However, I will not argue the historical facts of skinheads in the UK...it isn't my field, and is something alien to me. So I will take your word for it. I will say this, the history of the skinheads in the UK and America (or any other Western nation) must quite different in origins but most likely the same goal...to be bloody rebelious agaisnt society.

Well after today's events I think we can safely say that the impact the events I described earlier in this thread were under-estimated.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6512329/Fort-Hood-shooting-13-killed-and-30-injured-at-US-Army-base.html

Shocking and terrible thing.

Yeah, a guy from the United States shoots his comrades in the military. That really applies.

It can happen at any time. We're always at risk...

We're always at risk of everything! You could cough while sitting wrong and develop testicular torsion like, any second!

Just dont let any of them into US or Canada period....

Not realistic. Even if you stop all immigration and build walls with gun batteries and mine the ports, a few will find a way through and eventually we'll have a labor shortage and require immigrants. Oh, and define "them".