Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
In that specific part of the thread we were referring to ground combat. You and I had a miniature debate. When you failed to explain your position of Star Trek phasers somehow harming Star Wars AT-ATs, you suddenly change the parameters.
i was talking about your stance on the krenim weapon.
i provided proof of star trek weapons' capabilities. what more did you want?
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
You're still dodging a point that I've been bringing up for several pages.200 trillion gigawatts (Star Wars CANON source) vs 15 billion gigawatts (Jaden101's calculations which you support). Do you have a counter for this? Your only counter is that I based it off of "non canon sources" and "faulty math", which I have shown is incorrect. The Star Wars figure is CANON, and the Star Trek figure comes from Jaden101, who's calculations YOU AGREE WITH.
And you're still regurgitating the same BS, based on a false premise. Jaden's repeatedly shown you the math and the proper power calculations. You're a proven liar, this is a fact.
Getting old, as you've repeatedly shown to be ignorant in ST, yet you argue not knowing 1/2 of the debate.
Angles you can't properly debate around, you'll simple just decide it's not allowed, you'll use the nonsense tactic, eg 'The Borg can't assimilate Star Wars tech, because they never have', you'll greatly downplay something powerful, as you tried with the Iconian Gateway and/ir you'll drop some failed point, only to bring it up again after a few pages, pretending they're new. Just a couple examples of your dishonest methods here.
Have fun debating with the others, I'm done with you here.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I think I asked this once, but here goes....What does ST have in the line of starfighters? Like X Wings and TIE's?
Various species in Star trek have smaller ships. eg The Kazon(could be the wrong name) Voyager encountered in the Delta quadrant consisted of a mass swarm of small ships.
Though TIE fighters and like sized ships won't pose much of a problem to the larger more powerful ships.
The 2.4 million megaton figure was for the heavy turbolasers of an Acclamator star destroyer from Star Wars.
Nobody is this dumb...I'm talking about the fact that your gigawatts claim for the turbolasers is completely different to the megaton comparison. I made that perfectly clear several times.
Those tie fighter pilots were foolishly flying right in front of the Millennium Falcon's laser cannons and hovering there while firing from a few hundred meters away. Better starfighter pilots such as Luke Skywalker or Wedge Antilles would not make such a mistake.
I think you really need to watch the film again because they certainly weren't just hovering there waiting to be shot.
On the contrary, you're the one that brought up the black hole argument.
Actually you are when you mentioned that a civilian freighter from SW could pass within a few thousand kms of a black hole without being damaged.
Why would the borg change the yield of a weapon to drain a 100 gigawatt shield by 50% when they can drain all 100% if they want to? For the fun of it?
And I would know this how?
Star Wars star destroyers have FAR superior firepower, and, by extension (since Star Wars shields can withstand such firepower for quite a while whereas Star Trek shields get damaged by volleys of weapons hundreds or thousands of times weaker) their shields are far stronger as well.
You keep stating this but then only do so in comparison to the enterprise D...A out of date science vessel.
I'll ask this...Can 8 star destroyers blow a planet to pieces?...No...they can do a BDZ attack and kill everything on it but they can't destroy the planet...Can 8 small species 8472 bio ships do the same?...Yes.
So...who actually has stronger firepower?
Does SW have anything that destroy everything in an area of space over 4 light years across?...No....So...who actually has stronger firepower?
Does SW have any weapons that can erase entire species from ever existing?....No...So...who actually has stronger firepower?
Yet how many of those planets are inhabited? A very small percentage. How many had populations in the billions like numerous Star Wars planets do? A small percentage. How many have a large industrial (and economic, although you seem to discredit the relevence of this) base? A small percentage. A many would easily get taken over by a Star Wars attack fleet? A very large percentage.
Obviously all of them. The Borg don't assimilate world where there's no species worthy of assimilation...Meaning if there is no species technologically advanced enough then they wont both assimilating them.
Star Wars has nanotechnology as well. You still haven't explained how Star Trek's nanotechnology counters Star Wars's buzz droids.
Yes, I did...Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
How far do you expect the lasers to knock them? Besides, those Naboo starfighters weren't the most powerful in Star Wars.
Well if you're saying a star fighters lasers are strong enough to destroy a ST star ship then I would expect them to completely vapouring 100 droids in 1 shot and pretty much destroy the hanger the star fighter was stored in.
A squadron of Jedi in Stealth X's FTW
Yeah....uhhh...Already shown why they wouldn't have a chance.
That's not what a watt works like. Watt is "power", a conversion of energy over time, not a "total"; that is energy. A watt is a watt, there is no unit of "watt per second" or "watt per hour"; that is a misconception.
A watt is derived from 1 joule per second so that it doesn't require a unit of time...You do realise a watt and a joule are completely different units?
Actually, many civilians in Star Wars have access to civilian space vessels, many of which are more powerful than Star Trek military starships.
Make the statement, provide the proof...Otherwise STFU.
Source?
I've mentioned it several times already...The Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn (good books btw)
I find it odd that you would say Thrawn was one of the best strategists in SW clearly you haven't read the books so wouldn't know how good he is.
As for the other figure...On screen in A New Hope.
I already explained this by showing a source saying that the Death Star had crap internal security by Star Wars standards. You claimed that this contradicted the movies, but it actually agrees with the movies.
Well then you have to give examples of when they had good security...Not just state that the death star had shit security.
And my point is that the entire reason why they are designed that way is so that sensors cannot detect them, since the Stealth X itself isn't emitting energy to launch the shadow bombs; the Jedi is using the Force. Therefore, they would be virtually untrackable.
Proven wrong by your own sources...Let it go.
This is not a definitive figure that is anywhere near Star Wars numbers.
Yet you claim star wars has billions of ships without any proof whatsoever for it. Odd.
Use some logic...If they can source hundreds of ships within a short distance of the rifts leading to the delta quadrant then how many do you think they have in an entire universe where they are the only species.
The sun crusher is about the size of a starfighter.
And a trilithium torpedo is about the size on a person and does the same job.
No, but I've already explained how such a weapon would not do much more than a solar system busting weapon in this case.
Clearly it would if it destroys an area hundreds of thousands of times bigger than a solar system.
I've debunked this. The time ship erased itself from history in that it never existed at all.
So you ARE arguing that if something is destroyed in their respective universes then they aren't applicable in this debate?...Fine...You don't get the vast majority of the imperial fleet, either of the death stars, the sun crusher, the star forge, centrepoint station or pretty much anything of any power that star wars has had.
Originally posted by jaden101
Nobody is this dumb...I'm talking about the fact that your gigawatts claim for the turbolasers is completely different to the megaton comparison. I made that perfectly clear several times.
The 300 million gigawatts figure was for the light turbolasers whereas the 2.4 million megatons figure was for the heavy turbolasers figure. Why did they use different units? IDK, but it's still canon, and you're still dodging the point.
I think you really need to watch the film again because they certainly weren't just hovering there waiting to be shot.
Maybe, but they still could have attacked from much farther away. Also, starships from Star Trek tend to miss other large sharships, so it isn't accurate to say that they'd be able to hit smaller and faster Star Wars starfighters, especially since the former aren't prepared for that.
Actually you are when you mentioned that a civilian freighter from SW could pass within a few thousand kms of a black hole without being damaged.
I said a neutron star. Read the post.
And I would know this how?
Well it either means that the borg are really stupid or that your claim is incorrect.
You keep stating this but then only do so in comparison to the enterprise D...A out of date science vessel.
Yes, and you might have a point if it were outmatched by a small or even somewhat large margin, but in this case it's outmatched by a factor of millions by an Acclamator. Note that this science vessel consistently goes up against war ships, who are not superior to it by a factor millions.
I don't think you understand the technology difference. Star Wars vs Star Trek is like the USA vs Imperial Britain.
I'll ask this...Can 8 star destroyers blow a planet to pieces?...No...they can do a BDZ attack and kill everything on it but they can't destroy the planet...Can 8 small species 8472 bio ships do the same?...Yes.
Faulty logic.
The sun crusher is a single starfighter sized ship, and it can destroy a star system. Using your own logic against you, Star Wars has the superior firepower.
So...who actually has stronger firepower?
2.4 million megatons vs 1160 megatons
Does SW have anything that destroy everything in an area of space over 4 light years across?...No....So...who actually has stronger firepower?
Actually, Star Wars has black hole creating weapons that they can launch from a distance.
Does SW have any weapons that can erase entire species from ever existing?....No...So...who actually has stronger firepower?
I already covered this.
Obviously all of them. The Borg don't assimilate world where there's no species worthy of assimilation...Meaning if there is no species technologically advanced enough then they wont both assimilating them.
Exactly. You do realize that there are more sentient species in Star Wars than the borg have ever assimilated, right? It took the borg what; thousands of years to assimilate hundreds of thousands of species, and yet you're claiming that they can assimilate millions of species united and far more advanced that any they've ever encountered in a matter of years (or however long the war would last)?
Yes, I did...Ignoring it doesn't make it go away.
By that logic, Star Wars uses nanotechnology to wtf pwn Star Trek cause nanotechnology sounds cool.
In fact, since the borg seem to have similar DNA due to their constant assimilating, Star Wars could use a nanovirus (which they have used) to kill all of the borg.
Well if you're saying a star fighters lasers are strong enough to destroy a ST star ship then I would expect them to completely vapouring 100 droids in 1 shot and pretty much destroy the hanger the star fighter was stored in.
Those were targeted at infantry, not starships, and thus wouldn't be at full power.
Yeah....uhhh...Already shown why they wouldn't have a chance.
No you haven't. Jedi in Stealth X's would be untraceable to sensors even when they fire their shadow bombs, because the bombs are activated by the Jedi using the Force. These shadow bombs can cripple 70 trillion gigawatt shields in a few attack runs, so logic would dictate that they could easily cripple shields that get crippled by a few 1160 megaton weapons.
A watt is derived from 1 joule per second so that it doesn't require a unit of time...You do realise a watt and a joule are completely different units?
Exactly. A watt is derived from 1 joule per second. 200 trillion gigawatts vs 15 billion gigawatts. Both use gigawatts; one is not "total" (what do you mean by "total" gigawatts), both are joules per second.
200 trillion gigawatts vs 15 billion gigawatts.
Make the statement, provide the proof...Otherwise STFU.
There are spaceports in almost every major Star Wars planet, even remote ones, and it is stated multiple times that there is a lot of traffic and lots of civilians docking. A ship in Star Wars actually isn't that expensive, costing about 50,000 credits. Luke, who despite being famous isn't really rich, apparently not having a salary, has a large and powerful ship, the Jade Shadow. Space traffic is shown often. Basically, it's about as common as we today own cars.
Padme's spaceship has a more powerful reactor core than the Enterprise D.
I've mentioned it several times already...The Thrawn trilogy by Timothy Zahn (good books btw)
I find it odd that you would say Thrawn was one of the best strategists in SW clearly you haven't read the books so wouldn't know how good he is.
As for the other figure...On screen in A New Hope.
I'm not sure about the Thrawn figure, but I'm pretty sure that by "on screen" you mean using some vague quote that Han Solo made when they were at the remains of Alderaan, right?
Well then you have to give examples of when they had good security...Not just state that the death star had shit security.
The security in Coruscant was stated to be able to identify people in a planet of trillions by tracking how they walk.
Proven wrong by your own sources...Let it go.
WTF?
Stealth X's can turn invisible to both the naked eye and to sensors.
Jedi piloting Stealth X's can detonate the shadow bombs using the Force. It is specifically stated in several novels that this prevents sensors from tracking the Stealth X's when they fire. They were called the stealthiest things in the Galaxy.
Yet you claim star wars has billions of ships without any proof whatsoever for it. Odd.
There are 100 quadrillion citizens in Star Wars. It is considered in Star Wars to be normal to have a ship. Even if only one in a million had a ship that would still be 100 billion ships, most more powerful than the Enterprise D.
Use some logic...If they can source hundreds of ships within a short distance of the rifts leading to the delta quadrant then how many do you think they have in an entire universe where they are the only species.
Speculation.
And a trilithium torpedo is about the size on a person and does the same job.
And Luke Skywalker is a person and was capable of resisting the pull of a supermassive black hole.
Clearly it would if it destroys an area hundreds of thousands of times bigger than a solar system.
No, it would not, because solar systems are light years apart, and inhabited solar systems in Star Wars are even more light years apart.
So you ARE arguing that if something is destroyed in their respective universes then they aren't applicable in this debate?...Fine...You don't get the vast majority of the imperial fleet, either of the death stars, the sun crusher, the star forge, centrepoint station or pretty much anything of any power that star wars has had.
Really? Because Centerpoint station and the other things you mentioned did indeed exist in Star Wars in universe history, yet the krenim timeship erased itself from history so that it never existed at all.
Originally posted by Robtard
And you're still regurgitating the same BS, based on a false premise. Jaden's repeatedly shown you the math and the proper power calculations. You're a proven liar, this is a fact.
Can you really get this stupid and immoral?
I was using the same sources as Jaden101 was. Jaden101 prove me right.
Originally posted by The Nuul
What does SW have that can detect armies that can fire when cloaked?
1. Star Wars has cloaked vessels as well.
2. Star Trek cloaked vessels would not do any damage to Star Wars ships; 1160 megatons vs 70 trillion gigawatts? ROFL
3. Star Trek cloaked vessels will be revealed by their heat emissions upon firing.
Originally posted by The Nuul
And this isnt ground combat.Anyways, I wont be in this thread anymore with the troll.
lol what?
Star Wars stormtroopers didn't fare that well in that fight, but Federation troopers would have fared even worse.
1. They wouldn't have had any armor, so those big rocks would have likely killed them, since those rocks were REALLY big.
2. They wouldn't have had any AT-STs, so they would have gotten pwned even more.
3. They wouldn't have been as well trained, so they would have gotten pwned even more.
Now that I've signed off on his nonsense in this thread, he's PMing/Stalking me:
Hewhoknowsall wrote on Jul 28th, 2010 10:11 AM:
Are you saying that you think that watts has different units for "total watts" and "watts per second"?A watt is a watt. There is not unit of "watts per minute" or "watts per hour" or "total watts". Watts are constant. It's like claiming that there's a difference between "height per hour" and "height per minute".
200 trillion gigawatts is a higher number than 15 billion gigawatts. They both use the same unit. No "total watts" and no "watts per second".
A watt is derived from one joule per second. ALL watt measurements are like this. Both use watts, not different "variations" of watts.
You and Janus101 don't understand basic math and science that well. You're confusing power (watts) for energy (joules).
Thought I'd share in the LoLz.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
No you were not. You responded to one of my points involving ground combat.In ground combat, Star Wars [b]far
outmatches Star Trek. [/B]
i was talking about something else. facepalm
and how would you know? you don't even watch star trek.
several of their ground capabilities have been named, and you just flat out ignored them while claiming klingons with hand weapons over-ran a federation army, when they didn't.
Originally posted by -Pr-
i was talking about something else. facepalmand how would you know? you don't even watch star trek.
several of their ground capabilities have been named, and you just flat out ignored them while claiming klingons with hand weapons over-ran a federation army, when they didn't.
You're lying. I was talking about ground combat and about how Star Wars outclasses Star Trek due to Star Trek's lack of machine guns and grenades. You quoted me and said that Star Trek had gotten past those "basic weapons".
I then asked how they'd get past an AT-AT, and you said that they could trip the AT-AT, but I disproved your idea.
Then you suddenly say "zomg they could bomb the AT-ATs", which goes against what we were talking about. You talked about how phasers were beyond "basic weapons" and then suddenly changed to "zomg bombers!!!"
Or maybe I'm confusing you with someone else.
Let me ask you: in ground combat, how do your precious Star Trek ground troops do anything to a Star Wars AT-AT?
Originally posted by The Nuul
HAHAHAHAHAHA! maybe he wants a date.Dont get banned for posting that PM.
Why should I get banned? I've told him I've stopped in this thread, yet he continues to troll me with the same failed arguments. All very odd, when there's other posters in here he can continue regurgiate his failed points to.
BTW, he's sent 9 PM in about 16 minutes.
This one really touched me:
Hewhoknowsall wrote on Jul 28th, 2010 10:32 AM:
Of course you'll say this and other nasty and evil insults, because you can't debate and can't counter my points.I win this argument. You lose. You're a troll and are not willing to apologize when you've made a mistake. Do you have any morals? Any sense of caring of other people? Piece of shit.
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
You're lying. I was talking about ground combat and about how Star Wars outclasses Star Trek due to Star Trek's lack of machine guns and grenades. You quoted me and said that Star Trek had gotten past those "basic weapons".I then asked how they'd get past an AT-AT, and you said that they could trip the AT-AT, but I disproved your idea.
Then you suddenly say "zomg they could bomb the AT-ATs", which goes against what we were talking about. You talked about how phasers were beyond "basic weapons" and then suddenly changed to "zomg bombers!!!"
Or maybe I'm confusing you with someone else.
Let me ask you: in [b]ground combat
, how do your precious Star Trek ground troops do anything to a Star Wars AT-AT? [/B]
i'm not lying. i didn't attack you. why attack me?
you ARE confusing me with someone else.
also, STAR TREK DOES HAVE GRENADES AND AUTOMATIC WEAPONS.