Originally posted by Robtard
-Because 8472 is from a different dimension and it's DNA is many times more complicated than anything the Borg has encountered in theirs.-Vong are also similar to humans in many aspects, possibly sharing common lineage.
Yes, they are similar to humans, but there are parts of their biology/dna that are truly alien. Can't discount the possibility that they might have a very advanced immune system too.
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Yes, they are similar to humans, but there are parts of their biology/dna that are truly alien. Can't discount the possibility that they might have a very advanced immune system too.
Borg have assimilated many different "aliens", there's no reason to believe the these cats would be different.
Saying "they might have this or that" isn't a solid argument. Facts, show facts.
Originally posted by Robtard
Borg have assimilated many different "aliens", there's no reason to believe the these cats would be different.Saying "they might have this or that" isn't a solid argument. Facts, show facts.
Saying the Borg can assimilate species native to another universe isn't a solid argument either.
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Saying the Borg can assimilate species native to another universe isn't a solid argument either.
Shall we start saying that ST weapons won't affect SW materials for the exact same reason? EG A photon torpedo won't destroy a Star Wars piece of paper, because that paper is from a "different universe"?
There's humans and aliens in ST and in SW. Vong are said to share similar traits as humans; hinted at they could be of common ancestry. The Borg can assimilate humans, as well as countless other species, even ones that differ from humans, like Vulcans who have copper-based blood instead of iron, or Klingons who have two hearts and several other organs humans do not posses etc. etc. etc.
Originally posted by Robtard
Shall we start saying that ST weapons won't affect SW materials for the exact same reason? EG A photon torpedo won't destroy a Star Wars piece of paper, because that paper is from a "different universe"?There's humans and aliens in ST and in SW. Vong are said to share similar traits as humans; hinted at they could be of common ancestry. The Borg can assimilate humans, as well as countless other species, even ones that differ from humans, like Vulcans who have copper-based blood instead of iron, or Klingons who have two hearts and several other organs humans do not posses etc. etc. etc.
Your example is farfetched.
How many species does Star Trek have compared to that of Star Wars? Jaden said there is nobody in the SW universe that the Borg could not assimilate, or something along those lines. I find it implausible that not even one species in SW would be immune to the nanotech. Even, if there is no mention of an advanced immune system.
Originally posted by Admiral Akbar
Your example is farfetched.How many species does Star Trek have compared to that of Star Wars? Jaden said there is nobody in the SW universe that the Borg could not assimilate, or something along those lines. I find it implausible that not even one species in SW would be immune to the nanotech. Even, if there is no mention of an advanced immune system.
By citing that Vong and humans are similar in many aspects, that is far fetched? It's not.
Not sure as a definitive on either side. The Borg have assimilated thousands and thousands of worlds, with many varying differences in the species.
Listen, you're making the claim that the Vong (or some other race) has an immune system that could resist Borg assimilation, so prove it with something plausible; I'll listen. So far, the Vong are just another set of humanoids, who could possibly share the same linage as humans.
Originally posted by jaden101
Why choose those 2 ships though? Is it simply because you can't actually be bothered to find out any more information beyond that 1 page on stardestroyer.net that you keep referring to which also happens to have been proven factually wrong.
Again, you keep on avoiding my question.
Originally posted by jaden101Clearly not indestructable though given that it was destroyed.
Almost nothin0 in both fiction and reality is truly indestructible, and it was destroyed by being sucked into a black hole, which could destroy almost any ST ship as well.
Originally posted by jaden101
Wouldn't matter given that time is irrelevant to the ship and it's crew anyway.
So you're saying that this crew can exist totally disconnected from space time and yet still act. In this case, they should've been able to instantly destroy the Enterprise, the Federation fleet and anything or anybody else that it wanted to destroy minus extremes (Q) in zero seconds.
Originally posted by jaden101
In the episodes i linked to the crew had been travelling around in the Time ship for 200+ years and hadn't aged a day.
So their brain cells and body organs still function (and therefore are still affected by time) but don't age?
How strange. They must have invented some sort of immortality pill or something.
Originally posted by jaden101You keep adding more and more and more levels of gimping though. I mention a piece of tech or a species which you didn't know ST had (because your knowledge of ST is extremely limited) and THEN you say it isn't allowed....for no other reason that you don't want ST to win.
And ST's level of tech IS far superior. There is no transporters, no high level replicators, no time travel, no spacial or temporal weapons, nothing on par with the Dyson's sphere, no weapon as powerful as the MKNM or the omega particle, no type of propulsion as fast as transwarp.
No.
Like what? All that I've said that isn't allowed it alternate timelines (since aren't there an infinite amount of them?).
You can come up with a huge list of stuff that ST has that SW doesn't, but I can come up with a huge list of stuff that SW has that ST doesn't as well. This doesn't really prove anything.
Again, you keep on avoiding my question.
I've countered all your points from several angles. It's not my fault you refuse to accept them and keep shifting the goalposts.
So you're saying that this crew can exist totally disconnected from space time and yet still act. In this case, they should've been able to instantly destroy the Enterprise, the Federation fleet and anything or anybody else that it wanted to destroy minus extremes (Q) in zero seconds.
They didn't want to destroy Voyager (not the enterprise) until after Voyager had developed temporal shielding which then affected the calculations of the timeship weapon and the effects that the captain wanted (namely to restore the Krenim imperium as well as the colony his wife was from so she would be alive again)
So their brain cells and body organs still function (and therefore are still affected by time) but don't age?How strange. They must have invented some sort of immortality pill or something.
You clearly didn't even watch the episode did you? Because it's all explained in it quite clearly.
The ship and everything and everyone in it aren't affected by either the passage of time or the effect of the temporal weapon. An example being that inside the ship, the captain collected artifacts from species which he then wiped out. This meant he effectively had artifacts from species that never existed.
Like what? All that I've said that isn't allowed it alternate timelines (since aren't there an infinite amount of them?).
You tried to discount species 8472 because they're from fluidic space. You tried to discount the Krenim because, in your eyes, they're from an alternative timeline even though they're actually from the main timeline. You obviously already discounted species like the Q and the Douwd because nothing SW has would be remotely comparable. It's not just in this thread that you try that tactic. Take the LotR threads. As soon as the army of the dead were mentioned you then reacted to disallow them. That's the way you argue. You start by not knowing one half of the debate (the half you want to lose) and when people with far more knowlege than you show you the facts you then try and look for ways to exclude those arguments so your preferred side come out favourably.
You can come up with a huge list of stuff that ST has that SW doesn't, but I can come up with a huge list of stuff that SW has that ST doesn't as well. This doesn't really prove anything.
It's not about "having stuff". It's about the fact that SW has nothing on a comparable power level to many of the ST weapons. There is simply nothing in the SW arsenal that can match the power of the Omega particle of the multikinetic neutronic mine. There's nothing in SW tech to counter phased or temporal weapons.
On the other hand, ST has means to defend or adapt to energy based weapons (which is the massively predominant weapon of choice in SW)
Originally posted by jaden101
I've countered all your points from several angles. It's not my fault you refuse to accept them and keep shifting the goalposts.
My question was a simple yes or no one. Your "several angles" approach is basically avoiding an answer, that is yes or no.
Originally posted by jaden101
They didn't want to destroy Voyager (not the enterprise) until after Voyager had developed temporal shielding which then affected the calculations of the timeship weapon and the effects that the captain wanted (namely to restore the Krenim imperium as well as the colony his wife was from so she would be alive again)
But since they could act outside of space-time, they should've been able to revive his wife in zero seconds.
Originally posted by jaden101You clearly didn't even watch the episode did you? Because it's all explained in it quite clearly.
The ship and everything and everyone in it aren't affected by either the passage of time or the effect of the temporal weapon. An example being that inside the ship, the captain collected artifacts from species which he then wiped out. This meant he effectively had artifacts from species that never existed.
That doesn't explain much, like how if the crew weren't affected by time, then how do their brain cells react?
Originally posted by jaden101You tried to discount species 8472 because they're from fluidic space. You tried to discount the Krenim because, in your eyes, they're from an alternative timeline even though they're actually from the main timeline. You obviously already discounted species like the Q and the Douwd because nothing SW has would be remotely comparable. It's not just in this thread that you try that tactic. Take the LotR threads. As soon as the army of the dead were mentioned you then reacted to disallow them. That's the way you argue. You start by not knowing one half of the debate (the half you want to lose) and when people with far more knowlege than you show you the facts you then try and look for ways to exclude those arguments so your preferred side come out favourably.
Dunno when I discounted species 8472
I simply asked if the Krenim were from another timeline
And no, you didn't read them well enough: I said "nobody above Sauron" and someone said that Army of the Dead could solo. Well:
Question: are they totally immortal?
If yes, then they would be quite clearly above Sauron (since they are invincible) and aren't allowed.
If no, then they are allowed but can still be defeated.
Get it?
Originally posted by jaden101It's not about "having stuff". It's about the fact that SW has nothing on a comparable power level to many of the ST weapons. There is simply nothing in the SW arsenal that can match the power of the Omega particle of the multikinetic neutronic mine. There's nothing in SW tech to counter phased or temporal weapons.
On the other hand, ST has means to defend or adapt to energy based weapons (which is the massively predominant weapon of choice in SW)
Again, when does ST have an outdated assault ship that has shields billions of times more powerful than the Enterprise's?
My question was a simple yes or no one. Your "several angles" approach is basically avoiding an answer, that is yes or no.
You keep simply repeating a point i've already proven wrong. The only reason you're taking umbridge with it is that I didn't do it with my 1st reply.
But since they could act outside of space-time, they should've been able to revive his wife in zero seconds.
You're misunderstanding the effects of the weapon. The 1st time they used it to wipe out a species was because that species replaced the Krenim as the dominant force in their part of space. In wiping them out they also inadvertantly wiped out a gene that was introduced to the Krenim via that species. The gene in question provided resistance against a disease. Since the Krenim effectively erradicated that gene from their own species then the time ripple that travelled through the galaxy caused millions of their own species to never have existed because many of their ancestors died because they never had resistence to the disease and so they died along with all the following generations (including the captain's wife).
Since the weapon can't simply reverse what it's already done they had to keep recalculating the effects of subsequent uses of the weapon to see if it would reverse the destruction of the colony and the "death" of his wife. He because obsessed with this and for 200 years he tried to find ways to make the colony re-exist. The irony being that when the ship was finally destroyed by it's own weapon that all the uses of the weapon were erased from history and so the colony reappeared because it meant that the gene was never erased in the 1st place and so his wife was alive again.
That doesn't explain much, like how if the crew weren't affected by time, then how do their brain cells react?
Not existing in space/time doesn't mean you'd be "frozen" in time...because you're not "in" time in the 1st place.
Dunno when I discounted species 8472 I simply asked if the Krenim were from another timeline
Did you not state (and i paraphrase here) something along the lines of that species 8472 weren't allowed because they were from another universe?
Perhaps it was doan_m....I forget.
Question: are they totally immortal? If yes, then they would be quite clearly above Sauron (since they are invincible) and aren't allowed. If no, then they are allowed but can still be defeated. Get it?
Given that they "die" at the end of the film then they're clearly not totally immortal.
Again, when does ST have an outdated assault ship that has shields billions of times more powerful than the Enterprise's?
I've already given you the figures several times to prove otherwise. You effectively tried to lie in the thread by claiming that I didn't when you know as well as I do that I provided them via pm. Continually claiming I haven't done so either means you simply don't understand the information I gave you or you're ignoring it because it disproves you (given that you've done both those things in this thread on a several occasions then I'm not going to guess which it is)
Just to stir things up a little... what about the extensive use of droids as soldiers vs. the borg?
the droids cannot be assimilated which would be an advantage.
also, considering that in star trek they were able to board a borg ship with little notice I'd think a couple of jedi could cause a lot of damage. the borg could tune themselves against light sabers but jedi have other tricks that might work.
not saying star wars is going to win but the star wars universe does have a couple of aces up it's sleeve.
Originally posted by headless robot
Just to stir things up a little... what about the extensive use of droids as soldiers vs. the borg?the droids cannot be assimilated which would be an advantage.
also, considering that in star trek they were able to board a borg ship with little notice I'd think a couple of jedi could cause a lot of damage. the borg could tune themselves against light sabers but jedi have other tricks that might work.
not saying star wars is going to win but the star wars universe does have a couple of aces up it's sleeve.
1: Of course the Borg can assimilate droids...They assimilate technology all the time. It may not be about making the droids fight for the Borg but simply assimilating them thus rendering the droids weapons useless.
2: It wasn't a matter of the Enterprise crew being "unnoticed" more just ignored as not being a threat until they did start damaging the ship THEN the Borg acted. They would do the same to the Jedi and the would adapt after a few kills to the lightsabres. Granted, I don't think they could adapt to the force but the Jedi would be overwhelmed in sheer numbers eventually.
One other piece of technology that ST has that hasn't been mentioned is the Iconian gateway. They are effectively exactly like the Stargates except they allow you to travel anywhere...Not just to where another gateway is. They also work instantanaeously across the entire galaxy.
1: Of course the Borg can assimilate droids...They assimilate technology all the time. It may not be about making the droids fight for the Borg but simply assimilating them thus rendering the droids weapons useless.