Originally posted by -Pr-
Can Surfer beat him? Possibly. For a majority? Not imo, based on his showings against Wally.There aren't many characters in the herald category that can beat zoom, imo, if any.
By KMC logic Wally unleashes a million IMPs on his opponent the first second (like Superman for some reason) and they're turned into goo right away. Since no one has speed feats in the gazillion times lightspeed bracket (like Wally has 2 of), then someone who is even faster should naturally be too fast for any of them to beat.
it was made quite clear that wally had to have a full amp from jesse to contend with zoom, because without that full amp time was not completely stopped, and wally was left all but helpless. so how in the heck can you maintain that wally could have still been on near-equal footing with zoom, despite him specifically stating that he was "slowing down" because jesse's amp was being "used up"? again: that notion is enormously contradicted by previously established showings.
False. You are once again imposing ur beliefs on the panel with nothing to support them. It was made clear that Wally had to have time completely stopped around to match Zooms speed. In order to physically engage and perceive someone, however, you DO NOT have to exactly match their speed but rather ensure that the speed gap stays within a certain range. Hence when Wally was fighting Zoom and slowing down, he had not yet reached a speed level in which he could no longer perceive and engage Zoom. We saw earlier on in the comic that the faster flash got the better he could perceive Zoom as he went from being unable to see him, to being able to see him as a blur et.c No previous showings are being contradicted. All thats happening is that ur making use of terms which were never used on panel and making false assumptions.
for instance: it was established that the delorean had to reach 88mph to travel through time. what you're essentially trying to argue is that the delorean could had still traveled through time, moving at only 87mph... despite the story telling us otherwise. doesn't work that way.
Ur analogy is entirely nonsensical and downright inane. An action with a exact requirement or prerequisite such as the time travelling in ur example cannot be related and is not at all analogous to the scenario of physical engagement and perception as in the Zoom/flash scenario. That is because physical perception and engagement has to do with range of the speed gap between them. To provide a better analogy, In order to match Forrest Griffins speed, Tito ortiz will have to increase his speed to a specific level ala the specific figure in ur example. Tito ortiz therefore may not be able to match the speed of Forrest Griffin, but he still can engage him physically/perceive him and fairly react to him, albeit with Forrest gaining the upperhand, as long as the speed gap between he and Forrest does not exceed a given range.
additionally: for you to also believe that wally with a diminished amp from jesse alone is > wally + bart + jay, is completely unsupported, and therefore utterly baseless.
Gibberish. We absolutely know that Wally with a diminishing amp from jesse alone is greater than wally +bart and jay because Wally as his amp had begun to diminish was shown to still pretty well react/perceive/battle against a Zoom who had given NO indication of deliberately slowing down which FAR exceeds what he was capable of with the speed of bart and jay. Ur only rebuttal for this is the rationalization that Zoom must have been slowing down (though this was never indicated nor suggested) because Wally with a diminishing amp from jesse couldnt have been faster than he was with the amp of bart and jay. That my friend is circular reasoning and is yet another fallacy, as u r basing ur yet unproven conclusion on an another unproven assumption derived from it. The burden of proof however is on u to prove ur conclusion (which is not mentioned) as well as the implicitly assumed premise (which isnt mentioned either) u based it upon.
imo, the only logical assumption is that zoom was somewhat holding back by that point, because wally's final lesson was nearly at hand. that certainly fits the story as well as the characters involved MUCH better than your interpretation of said events.
Wrong.That line of reasoning is rather logically fallacious as u are basing ur final unproven assumptions on yet more unproven assumptions and ur argument ends up being full of fallacies. I am taking the story directly as it is portrayed and not trying to impose my own baseless assumptions on it. U on the other hand are making up unsupported excuses in a woeful attempt to rationalize what was clearly portrayed in order to favour ur character.heh
Originally posted by Kris Blaze
If Zoom is faster than Wally, how can they?By KMC logic Wally unleashes a million IMPs on his opponent the first second (like Superman for some reason) and they're turned into goo right away. Since no one has speed feats in the gazillion times lightspeed bracket (like Wally has 2 of), then someone who is even faster should naturally be too fast for any of them to beat.
i was trying to be diplomatic... 😬
Originally posted by Merlyn
😂 I love when people keep ona arguing even when they have been proven wrong.Back on track. Waverider is a good choice, Gog is another possibility, and so is Rip Hunter.
What are u talking about? Have u even read the arguments presented or any of the material being discussed? lmao.Its amazing how people with little grasp of what is being discussed think that by making trollish side comments they somehow legitimize the argument that favors their predetermined stance. facepalm
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterI would think so, but maybe not. I mean they don't exist outside of the current timeline all the time like Zoom does. hmm
Even if they manipulate time, could they do it before getting decked?
Originally posted by Naija boyI would not have made the comment I did had I not read both sides of the argument. And I do apologize if I offended you in any way (it was not intended I can assure you.) But in my opinion I feel as though alan made a much better argument all around than you did (most of his points seemed to be backed et cetera). Obviously your going to disagree, but my opinion is my own.
What are u talking about? Have u even read the arguments presented or any of the material being discussed? lmao.Its amazing how people with little grasp of what is being discussed think that by making trollish side comments they somehow legitimize the argument that favors their predetermined stance. facepalm
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterPossibly Gog, but I am still not entirely sure on that one. I mean he can see speedsters moving because they charge the particles in front of them as they move (or something.) But Zoom doesn't opperate the same way as any other speedster.
So who do you think could beat Zoom?