Originally posted by jinzinI'm not, I was just going by what I read... And yea he has CIS, but he doesn't have the PIS, characters like Spiderman, Flash, Zoom, etc, are different on the forums than they would be in comics.
Why are you shoving words down my throat?I've basically summed most credible up to most consistent. In that Spiderman has consistently been tagged by skilled fighters, Wolverine has consistently stood up to brick level punishment, and that isn't to say guys like DD can't hurt him, of course they can, but they're not likely to knock him out with a haymayker. Likewise Spiderman has dodged Kingpin in a fight, it isn't the likely scenario given his consistency though.
You know how I argue, to me consistency is key, and CIS isn't exempt less otherwise stated, Spiderman on the forums isn't another creature from the one we know in the comics. He's difficult to hit, never said otherwise, but so say him being hit by guys like Wolverine or Colossus is PIS is just absurd and really ignores his entire history of fighting people of that calibre. you know this.
I don't think he was saying Wolverine, I think he was saying Kingpin and Colossus. Meh.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Yea this isn't going to go anywhere, people are going to agree to disagree. You know the Wolverine/Spiderman rilvary is tense when one side goes against the webhead in a co-op thread. Can't we all get along like Logan and Parker do? 😛 😂
Originally posted by Battlehammer
it depends on the scenerio in my opinion, but niether "walk all over" the other
Originally posted by jinzinSpider-man getting tagged by the likes of Rhino goes against gazillion speed feats he has. Also Spider-man whole career of fighting MA doesnt involve him getting hit all the time. What makes you think he can dodge the likes of Iron Fist, Deadpool, Wolverine and Kingpin but wont be able to dodge Colossus? Also, the reason he often gets tagged by slower characters is because he holds back a lot all the time, even against trained MA fighters unless they have superhuman durability.
Not when it's a gifted street level fighter of decent quality, more often than not Spiderman takes punishment in those fights... a lot of punishment.Wolverine's showings against opponents with super strength factor his damage soak to be much higher than the strength and damage output of a gorilla... The gorilla feat goes against multitudes of like-evidence.
Spiderman's showings against slower, BUT SKILLED fighters DOESN'T lend to Spiderman dodging their blows all the time he gets hit.
Other faster, and less skilled opponents? Sure, not skilled fighters, him being hit by them doesn't go against multitudes of like-evidence, it's just been that way since the start of his career. 😬
also lets include the fact that its a comics world i mean how interesting would it be to read about spider-man who speedblitz his opponents and cant be touched? same thing with wolverine losing to people like punisher and recently some gorilla
if we go by spider-man's standard showings i am not even saying best just standard then he fights off people with super human speed without getting tagged ,like he was able to take down 4 people in civil war before they could do anything,playing with lizard who got super human speed,and look what he did to king pin when he wanted to.. king pin wasnt able to land a single hit on him you know why? because that's how he rolls
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Sorry, I had to get this in... I hate to start one of these, but I must say I don't see the team winning the majority, but Spiderman can dodge Colossus very well at his best, and Wolverine can take some hits from Colossus, but he isn't impervious from them. In the start of Wolverine's career he was taken out by a glancing shot from the Hulk. They both have high and low showings, and Wolverine is no more unkoable than Parker is unhittable, at all. It has nothing to do with this "skill" argument that keeps coming up. All fighters have loads of experience, and most of these streets do not go around using all of these high end martial arts moves and poses. It is a fanbase factor which has them both, "look even", even against a vastly physically inferior opponent. Why would he have serious issues dodging a normal fighter, when he can dodge hits from characters like Dock Ock, Carnage, and beyond that, even while distracted and rescuing someone? It simply isn't fair to disregard Logan's lower showings, and keep using ones against the Hulk, when the Hulk's highest showings would put Wolverine to shame anyways. Now if that is the case then we disregard Spiderman's lowest showings and get to use guys like Thor and beyond. Not fair either.Logan can be hurt by Cap and DD, just like he can be hurt by Hulk and Namor, who have hurt him and dropped him before.
In the forum, Spiderman would stomp a non powered fighter just as easily as Wolverine would, even easier in some situations, considering distance.
Furthermore, like we discussed in the Zoom thread, Spiderman is fighting at his best and isn't holding back, while he isn't trying to kill, he definitely isn't fooling around and he is cutting straight to the point. Spiderman has low showings against guys like say Kingpin especially early on, because of his nature, but here on the forum he gets dropped,, and the gap between a human/peakhuman/low enhanced human and a superhuman was made very clear in a fight between the two. Much more speed, abilities, and Spidersense makes him very difficult to hit, but not unhittable.
Why are we using Logan at his best and not Spiderman, why are feats like Nukes and Thanos usable here? Who decides what is most credible? Characters haven't had problems hurting Logan in his career neither? What is the difference really? Is he healing before the damage is done?
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Originally posted by SamZED
Spider-man getting tagged by the likes of Rhino goes against gazillion speed feats he has. Also Spider-man whole career of fighting MA doesnt involve him getting hit all the time. What makes you think he can dodge the likes of Iron Fist, Deadpool, Wolverine and Kingpin but wont be able to dodge Colossus? Also, the reason he often gets tagged by slower characters is because he holds back a lot all the time, even against trained MA fighters unless they have superhuman durability.
Also since the start of Wolverine's career like 90% of the time he's being shot at he gets hit. Does it mean he cant dodge bullets? No. If I make a thread Wolverine without a hf vs 3 guys with guns im pretty sure everyone with just a common knowledge about Wolverine would say that Logan would dodge the shots and cut them to pieces. But if we ignore his random speed feats and only go by the 90% of time he gets shot the outcome of the fight would be different, see what I mean?
Spider's top speed feats as well as his showings against other characters suggest he can dodge the likes of Kingpin without much trouble, let alone someone like Colossus.
That's kind of an unfair comparison as they don't add up.
Wolverine gets shot up most of the time because he isn't even trying to dodge. Most of the time that he's actualy attempting to avoid gunfire, he does so successfully, this is very much the case in multiple instances where he's lost his powers, even against expert marksmen like Scalphunter.
Now, I'm not talking about Spiderman getting tagged by the likes of Rhino... I'm talking about him getting hit by skilled fighters... which regardless of his ability to dodge less skilled yet physically faster opponents, HAS been the case since day one with Parker. It's not up for debate. I NEVER said Colossus wouldn't be able to hit him. I think Colossus would and should be able to tag Spiderman because he's faster than a lot of bricks and much more skilled.
Spiderman's showings of speed would mean something if he didn't fail to endlessly dodge skilled peak humans every time he confronted them, but he always fails to do just that. Just because he's holding back punching a fist through someone doesn't dictate he's automatically REACTING and dodging slower. 😬
He just isn't as capible as many would like to believe.
Originally posted by jinzin
That's kind of an unfair comparison as they don't add up.Wolverine gets shot up most of the time because he isn't even trying to dodge. Most of the time that he's actualy attempting to avoid gunfire, he does so successfully, this is very much the case in multiple instances where he's lost his powers, even against expert marksmen like Scalphunter.
Now, I'm not talking about Spiderman getting tagged by the likes of Rhino... I'm talking about him getting hit by skilled fighters... which regardless of his ability to dodge less skilled yet physically faster opponents, HAS been the case since day one with Parker. It's not up for debate. I NEVER said Colossus wouldn't be able to hit him. I think Colossus would and should be able to tag Spiderman because he's faster than a lot of bricks and much more skilled.
Spiderman's showings of speed would mean something if he didn't fail to endlessly dodge skilled peak humans every time he confronted them, but he always fails to do just that. Just because he's holding back punching a fist through someone doesn't dictate he's automatically REACTING and dodging slower. 😬
He just isn't as capible as many would like to believe.
I never sid that Spider-man is untouchable, saying that would be false and even retarded, but it is true that whenever he gets tagged by bricks its a low showing,you can't arge that. I mean take his recent fights aainst bricks - Rulk and Hercules. At first he would use his speed and speedblitz the livving shit outta them and its is clear that they're not fast enough to tag him, then something stupid happens that makes Spider-man lose all his speed and for some reason fail to dodge the same attack he dodged just a minute ago with his eyes closed, that is definitely a low showing. Also Wolverine sometimes may not try to dodge gunfire but sometimes him and Deadpool (and concidering im a huge fan of both it really hurts me to admit it) just fail to dodge it even when they try. Why? Because they can afford to take it and they wont die, while someone like Nightwing when facing the same situatuion will succesfully dodge every shot and beat the crap outa everyone. Does it mean that NW is faster than Wolverine and DP? Hell NO! But it happens in the comics for the sake of making the fight interesting. Now we have examples of Wolverine and Wade failing to dodge simple attacks as well as we have examples of Spider-man getting tagged by slow characters, BUT we ALSO have examples of both Wolverine and DP dodging stuff that would make someone like NW shit his pants AND we have examples of Spider-man fighting the likes of Iron Fist without getting tagged ONCE, we have an example of him fighting the likes of Taskmaster, Kingpin, Wolverine and Deadpool and not getting tagged once all because he's taking the fight seriously unlike most of the other fights he's in. As well as his random speed feats that suggest that he can dodge the likes of Carnage with dozen tendrils that move faster than bullets, can change their direction and are not detected by the ss, and Spider-man could always succesfully dodge them. You see what I mean, Jin? Im not arguing that going by some of Parker feats he can be tagged by the likes of Rhino, but going by his top speed it is certain that peak human Kingpin and DD kind of speed is not enough to tag Spider-man if he's moving at his top speed. And Colossus (as fast as he is for a brick) definitely is not touching Spider-man at his top and arguing otherwise would be like arguing that someone with DD's strength can oneshot someone like Deadpool or Wolverine because it might happen in a comicbook...
Originally posted by SamZEDGlad someone sees that. One reason why "bullet dodging" doesn't really prove anything in these threads, bullets job and serve to aid the plot.
Also Wolverine sometimes may not try to dodge gunfire but sometimes him and Deadpool (and concidering im a huge fan of both it really hurts me to admit it) just fail to dodge it even when they try. Why? Because they can afford to take it and they wont die, while someone like Nightwing when facing the same situatuion will succesfully dodge every shot and beat the crap outa everyone. Does it mean that NW is faster than Wolverine and DP? Hell NO! But it happens in the comics for the sake of making the fight interesting.
Originally posted by SamZED
I never sid that Spider-man is untouchable, saying that would be false and even retarded, but it is true that whenever he gets tagged by bricks its a low showing,you can't arge that. I mean take his recent fights aainst bricks - Rulk and Hercules. At first he would use his speed and speedblitz the livving shit outta them and its is clear that they're not fast enough to tag him, then something stupid happens that makes Spider-man lose all his speed and for some reason fail to dodge the same attack he dodged just a minute ago with his eyes closed, that is definitely a low showing. Also Wolverine sometimes may not try to dodge gunfire but sometimes him and Deadpool (and concidering im a huge fan of both it really hurts me to admit it) just fail to dodge it even when they try. Why? Because they can afford to take it and they wont die, while someone like Nightwing when facing the same situatuion will succesfully dodge every shot and beat the crap outa everyone. Does it mean that NW is faster than Wolverine and DP? Hell NO! But it happens in the comics for the sake of making the fight interesting. Now we have examples of Wolverine and Wade failing to dodge simple attacks as well as we have examples of Spider-man getting tagged by slow characters, BUT we ALSO have examples of both Wolverine and DP dodging stuff that would make someone like NW shit his pants AND we have examples of Spider-man fighting the likes of Iron Fist without getting tagged ONCE, we have an example of him fighting the likes of Taskmaster, Kingpin, Wolverine and Deadpool and not getting tagged once all because he's taking the fight seriously unlike most of the other fights he's in. As well as his random speed feats that suggest that he can dodge the likes of Carnage with dozen tendrils that move faster than bullets, can change their direction and are not detected by the ss, and Spider-man could always succesfully dodge them. You see what I mean, Jin? Im not arguing that going by some of Parker feats he can be tagged by the likes of Rhino, but going by his top speed it is certain that peak human Kingpin and DD kind of speed is not enough to tag Spider-man if he's moving at his top speed. And Colossus (as fast as he is for a brick) definitely is not touching Spider-man at his top and arguing otherwise would be like arguing that someone with DD's strength can oneshot someone like Deadpool or Wolverine because it might happen in a comicbook...
Uh for one, Spiderman has also been getting tagged by quality bricks since the start of his career.. you can call getting hit by Rulk a "low showing" but that's a bunch of nonsense, Most of his encounters with Hulk if not all of them have Hulk smashing Spiderman VERY quickly into the fight/encounter, and Hulk happens to be an extremely fast opponent for his size.
With Herc's build, fighting prowess and experience it would be PIS NOT to hit Spidey.
Now... Sure sometimes Wolverine fails to dodge gunfire, but it doesn't consistently happen when he's trying to it happens on a very low end of the spectrum, as opposed to Spiderman who IS consistently getting blasted in the face by quality fighters.
Uh.... and Spiderman gets tagged by Venom WAY more often then he successfully dodged him, Carnage is an idiot so I really don't care much about him.
And uh... no.. it's not like arguing that DD can one shot Deadpool and Wolverine because neither type of feat has EVER taken place more than once or twice in their careers combined... MAYBE....
I'm not talking about something that happens once or twice in a career, or hell even once or twice in a decade, I'm talking about something that happens almost every. damned. time Spiderman tries to tangle with someone who's a half decent fighter. He gets tagged.. a lot.
Now you're talking all about how Spiderman at his top speed shouldn't be hit, and maybe you're right, moving at his absolute fastest he shouldn't, and I've always said that if Spiderman where to focus all his attention on defense specifically he should be able to dodge way more blows than not... But it's impossible for Spiderman to retain that level of speed for any significant amount of time or imply it in every situation during combat especially when he goes on the attack and that's the problem, when he's fighting people who have trained their whole lives for combat, people who have studied reading their opponents, Spiderman telegraphs himself and gets treated like a newb. Again, if this wasn't something that consistently happened in Spiderman's career I would venture to say this argument holds no merit, but I'm not talking about Spiderman's ability to dodge some brainless thug like scorpion or rhino... I'm talking about his ability to dodge people with a mass degree of fighting IQ under their belt.... it's an ability he has yet to consistently display. 😬
