Colossus Vs Wolverine and Spiderman

Originally posted by jinzin
Oh great, can't wait for the next book-long reply to respond too. 😬

I see what you mean and i agree it's not out of character for Spider-man to get hit a lot with CIS on, I only got problems with Rulk fight and others because it usually goes like this - Spider-man dodges effortlessly and lands dozen attacks, then suddenly stops for some reason and fails to avoid getting grabbed. The only thing I disagree with you on is that Spider-man gets hit a lot and all the time when he fights trained MA. That's the case when he holds back (because it makes him slower and even Wolverine confirmed that in the what if Wolverine vs Spider-man) Kingpin is only one example, he fought Iron Fist twice and didnt get hit. He was able to dodge Wolverine and Deadpool. Guys like Bullseye and Taskmaster weren't even givven the chance to attack because he was too fast for them. All im saying is when the guy REALLY puts his mind to it he doesnt get tagged even by trained MA fighters like DD and especially not by bricks. And it was even shown that the lack of MA training for him is not a problem. As for Carnage he may be an idiot but it doesnt make him any less dangerous and fast. Venom is the whole different story, the guy is my favorite Spider-man enemy and if I were writing the books Brock would've been beating Parker in every fight so I dont have any problems with Spider-man not being able to dodge him..

Colossus wins this 9/10

Originally posted by SamZED
😆 I see what you mean, not gonna drag you into an endless debate that doesnt get us anywhere, also you gotta give me credit for my last post concidering that I wrote it after coming home after celebrating my friend's birthday and was so drunk I could barely see the keyboard..

I see what you mean and i agree it's not out of character for Spider-man to get hit a lot with CIS on, I only got problems with Rulk fight and others because it usually goes like this - Spider-man dodges effortlessly and lands dozen attacks, then suddenly stops for some reason and fails to avoid getting grabbed. The only thing I disagree with you on is that Spider-man gets hit a lot and all the time when he fights trained MA. That's the case when he holds back (because it makes him slower and even Wolverine confirmed that in the what if Wolverine vs Spider-man) Kingpin is only one example, he fought Iron Fist twice and didnt get hit. He was able to dodge Wolverine and Deadpool. Guys like Bullseye and Taskmaster weren't even givven the chance to attack because he was too fast for them. All im saying is when the guy REALLY puts his mind to it he doesnt get tagged even by trained MA fighters like DD and especially not by bricks. And it was even shown that the lack of MA training for him is not a problem. As for Carnage he may be an idiot but it doesnt make him any less dangerous and fast. Venom is the whole different story, the guy is my favorite Spider-man enemy and if I were writing the books Brock would've been beating Parker in every fight so I dont have any problems with Spider-man not being able to dodge him..

Just a few to adress.

Kingpin taggin Spidey is a feat that outnumbers the counter by something like 5or6 to 1. Spideys feat in BinB is semi-irrelivent as of OMD anyways.

I'm pretty sure IF hit Spiderman in all 3 of their encounters, though their second was heavily in Spidey's favor.

The only time he was able to dodge Wolverine was in Secret Wars, which I hope I don't need to get into... unless you're talking about the graveyard incident which has been debated to death and could be argued either way: Spiderman dodged all of Wolverine's attacks/VS/ Wolverine wasn't trying to harm Spiderman and flat out went to the lengths of letting spiderman bash away at his face. AND the validity of the pro-Spidey side of that argument was pretty much completely shat upon in every encounter between the two ever since, including one that occured immediately after the incident in question.

Deadpool I'm pretty certain tagged Spiderman in their fight as well... Though he was no sold for most of it, he's also not a good representation of how most MA his level would fair based on insanity alone, they may fair just as well, they may fair worse. Sometimes his insanity helps, sometimes it hinders, sometimes it doesn't matter.

Bullseye and Taskmaster are both crap shoots... you never know which version of the character you're going to get.

With TM he has as many good showings vs. Spidey as bad showings. In the 2 bad showings he wasn't commited to the fight and opted to run away after what? 2 attacks, I have no problem with Spiderman being able to outmaneuver a halfassing enemy who launches 2 attacks, it doesn't speak much for what a guy who is involved in a fight and not a profit would do like Cap. Problem with TM too is that his ability isn't even reliable as a standard of evidence; he's flat out admitted his skill level is contingent on what he's watched relative to any given fight.
IF those fights were to show something about Spiderman's speed I ALSO saw that Spiderman was too slow to hit TM with a tombstone, who vanished right infront of Spiderman's eyes... 😬

When has Spiderman ever no-sold DD? Even when DD was sitting in a car, unprepared for battle he was able to leap out and tag parker in the face with a haymaker. Like the Kingpin fight it would be a ratio that heavily outnumbers the times of events Parkers able to successfully keep dodging.

Carnage- but... it does make him an idiot. He's also failed to use his advantages on several street levels in drawn out melee confrontations.

When he REALLY wants to he can avoid people sure, but when he's actively trying to fight them he gets picked apart, like when DD flattened him.

Dammit... sorry that wasn't supposed to be long. 🙁

Wow. Ok that'd take some time to respond too but ill try to keep it as short as possible.

I only remember reading 2 fights against Ironfist, in the first fight IF couldn't tag Spider-man during the fight, only after Spider-man stopped fighting to check if IF's hurt from his attacks. The second time they fought IF only managed to tag him once in a midleap when Spider-man dodged a trap set by IF, all other his attacks (like a dozen) were easilly dodged, also that fight was a great example of how Spider-man's fighting style combined with years of fighting experience more than make up for his lack of MA training, he even used IF's own attack against him, predicted his moves.
As for Kingpin it was eastablished that Spider-man held back a lot in his fights against Fisk and OMD as crappy as it is still made one thing very clear, great MA skills and peak human speed/strength alone wothout super powers are no match for Spider powers.
Daredevil, same as with Fisk, most of the times they fought Parker was either mind controled or holding back but taking the example you've mentioned, DD wasnt unprepared, he was the one who started the fight, and he was only able to tag Parker once, he got lucky because they were both falling out of a cab and there was no way for Parker to dodge it, after that Matt tried to hit him again as fast as possible because he didnt want to give him the time to recover from the first attack but Parker easilly cought his hand and koed him with a punch.
Wolverine, i meant the graveyard fight, yes, and I believe in a pro-Spider-man version because Wolverine had no other choice but to go for the stab because he was running out of time to save his friend even thoug he hated it, I just dont see how other version could be possible in that situation, especially looking at how close most of the attacks were and how little time he had, letting the fight last so long on purpose would've been a very VERY strange move in that situation, and lets not bring their other encounters, they are not the best examples of a real one on one fight, the graveyard fight is the closest to a real fight we ever got from the two with both knowing whom they're dealing with. In Secret Wars Logan simply understimated Spider-man because he didnt know who he was dealing with and it doesnt really say anything about their speed. Deadpool fought Spider-man twice, and yes first time he was able to kick Parker once in the very start of the fight, but since then it was a onesided beating, the second time they fought Spider-man easilly dodged Wade's katanas. I agree Taskmaster isnt the best example, but Bullseye.. Its a recent thing, Parker was shot, trotured for hours and bleeding all over the place, yet he was able to break free, rip Osborn's face off, get behind Bullseye's back and oneshot him all so fast Bullseye couldnt even react.
Dont get me wrong I do not have this crazy urge to prove that Spider-man is unhittable or undefeatable, in a forum fight id give Wolverine a majority over Spider-man no doubt, all im saying is - his speed is the only reason he can fight someone like Deadpool and Wolverine, its the ONLY thing he's got over them that lets him survive his encounters with them. So I just refuse to accept the idea that it's nothing special at all or an average speed for a well trained peak human because if that was the case he'd get instantly killed as soon as he faces a trained MA peak human with say a blade because unlike DD and Wolverine he doesnt have the skills to fight him, he'd have to rely on his powers, mostly on his superior speed...

Wolverine is just as fast as spidey

Originally posted by carver9
Wolverine is just as fast as spidey

Originally posted by SamZED
He isn't. Spider-man is a bit faster. You might not remember but we've been over this me and you. I couldnt convince you, you could never convince me, please dont turn it into another simillar debate, im not in the mood for the huge posts and arguing. Im not trying to be a jerk or anything, im seriously not in the mood for that.

LOL, I think I can convince you

Originally posted by SamZED
He isn't. Spider-man is a bit faster. You might not remember but we've been over this me and you. I couldnt convince you, you could never convince me, please dont turn it into another simillar debate, im not in the mood for the huge posts and arguing. Im not trying to be a jerk or anything, im seriously not in the mood for that.

Faster...? Maybe in the handspeed 😘

Originally posted by carver9
LOL, I think I can convince you

Originally posted by SamZED
😄 I am a very stabborn person, people tend to hate me for that 'cause I close my ears go "nanananana" whenever I got nothing to say. 😛

😆

I think we need to do a battle zone, dont you?

Spiderman speed vs Wolverine Speed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Faster...? Maybe in the handspeed 😘

Originally posted by carver9
😆

I think we need to do a battle zone, dont you?

Spiderman speed vs Wolverine Speed.

Originally posted by SamZED
😆 He'd have to be pretty darn fast to run away from the guy.
BTW ive seen it already but dont know where its from. That 616? 😱

Yes. Spider-Man and Power Pack one-shot released in 1984. After finding out about this I lost the last ounce of respect I had for him since OMD. Please tell me Norman killed him in that the list one-shot...

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes. Spider-Man and Power Pack one-shot released in 1984. After finding out about this I lost the last ounce of respect I had for him since OMD. Please tell me Norman killed him in that the list one-shot...

Originally posted by SamZED
Um.. not really. And why would you lose respect for him? He's the poor victim here! Isn't he?😏

Seems to me that Osborn can't do a single thing right.

He liked it so much he told his aunt about it. True story 😖

Retconned his own wife, but didn't kick that pervert's ass after obtaining powers.

Then you have Bendis making him even a bigger pussy. "Stealing is stealing." "OMFG!!! Did Madame freakin' Masque get shot???" Not to mention that he is more interested in Cage than his wife. I'm done with him. I hope that at the end of that Gauntlet story he gets crushed by Rhino... it's all he deserves.

Originally posted by carver9
😆

I think we need to do a battle zone, dont you?

Spiderman speed vs Wolverine Speed.

Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Yes. Spider-Man and Power Pack one-shot released in 1984. After finding out about this I lost the last ounce of respect I had for him since OMD. Please tell me Norman killed him in that the list one-shot...

OK it's on, IT'S ON!

You maybe be right about the IF fights I'll have to review them.

Most of his fights he held back with Fisk sure, but in many of them he couldn't avoid Fisk... There's the problem, even if he's not swinging for the fences in every fight, it shouldn't reduce his spider speed or SS, he still gets tagged which is of course the point..
Apparently you don't even need great MA skills as Hammerhead was apt to point out.

Agreed.... Daredevil, same as with Fisk.

I don't agree with your statement on the graveyard fight though, simply because if Wolverine was trying to kill Spidey he would have when given the chance, it may not make sense that he wasted time, but that's exactly what he was doing when he chose to let Spiderman hit him in the face and opted not to retaliate. I'm not going to discard every example after that just because they don't reflect how you think a scenario SHOULD go between the two. 😬

I haven't seen the second fight with Deadpool. ?

Bullseye, like I said, another crapshoot, on one hand he parries DD and Elektra at the same time, on the other Elektra takes him out while drugged, poisoned, and wounded. 😬

"Dont get me wrong I do not have this crazy urge to prove that Spider-man is unhittable or undefeatable, in a forum fight id give Wolverine a majority over Spider-man no doubt, all im saying is - his speed is the only reason he can fight someone like Deadpool and Wolverine, its the ONLY thing he's got over them that lets him survive his encounters with them. So I just refuse to accept the idea that it's nothing special at all or an average speed for a well trained peak human because if that was the case he'd get instantly killed as soon as he faces a trained MA peak human with say a blade because unlike DD and Wolverine he doesnt have the skills to fight him, he'd have to rely on his powers, mostly on his superior speed... "

Fair enough, though I think Spiderman's SS fluctuates based on the level of danger coming at him as does his body's involuntary reaction to it. I agree that Spiderman's extremely fast and that his powerset makes him very very hard to hit, but his history IS littered with fights where he does get hit.. a lot by gifted street levels. I don't think it's beyond comprehendible that a guy like Colossus could tag him.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
OK it's on, IT'S ON!

That just shows that Wolverine doesn't need a gay boyfriend/old aunt to do some cooking for him.

Oh and you asked for it - wallcrawler having anal sex with Doctor Octopus' arm 😐

Let's just say we're gonna make serious coin selling the shots I'm getting of Spidey's street side love-in with that Ock arm.